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georger 197
QuoteAll I've got is Ron Forman's word, 377, saying he jumped in tandem with Barb. Is there any reason to doubt Ron? Do you think more conclusive proof is necessary?
As for Occam's edge dulling, remember what we are cutting here: one-of-a-kind intelligence operatives. Guys who do big jobs and don't come back. Guys who leave no loose ends, no trace of their existence - no family or curious friends wondering what happened, etc. How do you train an operative like that? Send him to Fort Benning????
As for Occam, what does he think the CIA was doing when they spent 6% of their budget on mind control?
One thing we do know, however, they were tortuting and killing innocent people at the Allen Insitute.
So, how far will Occam's razor cut through this sordid mess? Will it find the heart of the matter?
Orange1 0
QuoteQuotein my searches i came across this from ckret, which may be useful to those who have forgotten him in the midst of recent rants:
(Jun 3 2008)QuoteJo,
I have located the investigative file on Duane which is chalk full of information that i am willing to provide you, I'll start with this:
On July 24 1997 our lab received the hand printed memo you have made mention of, Duane's resume and a set of your fingerprints for elimination.
On 11/06/1998, the lab reported that there were 19 prints of value discovered on the resume, of which 5 were yours. The remaining 14 prints of value were compared to the known prints of Duane Weber with negative results (meaning they didn't belong to Duane). The 14 unknown prints from the resume where compared to the unknown latent prints recovered from flight 305 with negative results. The known prints of Duane Weber where compared to those of the unknown latent prints recovered from flight 305 with negative results.
No prints of comparison value were recovered from the hand printed memo you supplied.
I now have and will keep at my desk the file on Duane. There are over 500 hundred pages in the file; his tax returns, court filings, interviews with relatives, results of the lab tests........ and so on.
If you want more answers to your questions I have them.
subsequent posts more than adequatley answered jo's questions about why the fingerprints didn't match duane's, etc.
I don't remember my reply and do not go back to look. As for Weber he was known to carry emory cloth in his pockets. Because Duane did commited other crimes after 1971 and the prints never came back to him...still leads me to believe there is a problem with the prints.
He was a 6 time felon who was arrested 2 times afterwards - and his prints didn't come back reading Ex-Con. Both incidents involved a gun in his possession.
Himmelsbach told me that the FBI did NOT know if any of the prints belonged to Cooper. The prints on the aftstairs could have been there since the plane was built.
As far as Ckret revealing anything more to me about Duane's file...It did not happen. He also promised me copies of his files - remember! I never got those.
I had a long discussion with Duane's friend and none of the things Jerry ranted about other than Duane mentioning McCoy ever took place. He did not remember more than one or two phone calls and was under the impression he was talking to the FBI. He said it had been too many yrs to remember anything else.
I do not mean to tease about the interview with the night clerk - just somethings have to stay confidential until the time is right and definitely NOT in a thread. There are 2 crucial other interviews that need to take place - and they are being handled.
As for Ckret - the article on the FBI site was not a very professional thing to do about the Dan Cooper Comics. And that was after he left the forum. Sorry - but review the places he went in his "theory" and then call me "crazy" or claim that I change my story. He is FBI and I am just a simple woman trying tell what I know. If he had done the things he promised to do in the forum - perhaps I might have some answers, but he chose NOT to do as he said he would.
With those file I may have found things they didn't see or were unaware of, but it was the choice of the FBI NOT to send me Duane Weber's files. Did it occur to any of you that perhaps his statement was deliberate? Knowing he had NO intention of sharing Duane Weber's file with me.
Can you point to where he said he would send you copies of the files? From what I could see (in the quote above and others) there were plenty of times he bent over backwards to answer your questions, just as he said he would, and spend time on this. The bottom line is that the only thing that will make you happy is proof that Weber was Cooper. This proof clearly doesn't exist, so you have to find all sorts of wierd theories as to why. It would probably embarrass you if I re-posted some of your posts that I came across in the search. by the way if you cannot remember Ckret's very thorough and detailed explanations about the fingerprints - that actually is your problem, not his (or ours).
377, I do not recall any evidence of Cooper wearing gloves. Then again he may have had in his pocket, bag, whatever and put them on before he jumped. Ckret readily admitted that they did not know if any of the found prints were Cooper's; he also mentioned that the real prints of value came from the magazines, but that they had no witnesses that actually saw Cooper reading any magazine.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
First, I apologize for the length of this post, but I think it may have some value.
While conducting very in-depth research about issues that can only be described as “minutia,” I happened across a Xerox copy of an article written in 1980 or 1981 (I have assigned this date, based on the phrases “10 years ago” and “approximately $6000 found” in the article) about Hal Williams, the Ticket Agent that sold Cooper his ticket. Williams was listed as “a former Northwest employee” in some of the comments ( by NWA) from other sources of that period.
Please take note that approximately 25% of the article is unreadable (the right-hand margin). I have indicated the end of the readable page with xxxxxxxxx.
The article was titled; “Ticket agent won’t forget xxxxxxxxx” and was written by a respected journalist working (at the time) for The Oregonian. His name is John Guernsey (now deceased).
Here are some pull-quotes from the article (I have omitted outer quote marks for clarity, everything in quotes are Williams’ words):
Little did he know at the time, but Hal Williams will never be allowed to forget the man all dressed in black he met 10 years ago on Thanksgiving Eve.
Williams was the ticket agent at the gate for the Northwest Orient flight. The man dressed all in black – including a black attaché case – was Dan Cooper, the first hijacker to parachute from a plane. He hasn’t been seen or heard from since.
“I couldn’t help but notice him,” said Williams, who operates Royal Oak Furniture Refinishing in Portland. “His clothing was all black, including his shoes and his attaché case. Even his hair was kind of Black”
“It was about three in the afternoon, and the other 20 or thirty people waiting for the flight to Seattle were milling around – laughing and back-slapping. But he stood off to himself … very calm and quiet … and looking out the window most of the time.”
“No, I didn’t suspect anything bad while observing him. He looked like a sharp businessman to me. But I noticed him quite a bit because his behavior was different from the others, and he was all in black during the day of polyesters and plaids.”
And, later in the article:
“The FBI talked with xxxxxxxxx
years – after the xxxxxxxxx
just kept coming back. xxxxxxxxx
through my mind once xxxxxxxxx
maybe they thought I xxxxxxxxx
with Cooper,” Williams xxxxxxxxx
“And the people I xxxxxxxxx
were always teasing me xxxxxxxxx
I was going to do with xxxxxxxxx
money. All that talk xxxxxxxxx
while, but then it got to xxxxxxxxx
And later:
It was Williams who xxxxxxxxx
Cooper description from xxxxxxxxx
drew facial pictures of xxxxxxxxx
“The composite drawing xxxxxxxxx
[remainder obliterated]
So, what’s this all about?
I have expressed many times how irritated I get with the media’s (then and now) lack of accuracy in reporting. This article is not excluded from that feeling just because Guernsey was so respected. But assuming the article is accurate I think there may be some new information here.
If anyone has the entire article (electronic or hard-Copy), I would love to see it. I have exhausted all my resources, including paid services.
1. It appears that the “Bing Crosby (or one of the earlier (more sinister) sketches) were based on, not many witness descriptions, but ONE witness description, namely Williams.
2. Notice that there is no mention of the paper sack. When you look at the detail, if the sack was there, it should have been mentioned in the article. Maybe the paper sack is the FBI’s “Hold-Back Evidence” and they asked witnesses not to mention it in interviews. (This thought is what reminded me of the article and prompted this post.)
3. It also appears that the FBI may have taken the NWA employee conspiracy theory seriously and investigated it. Or, maybe Williams was just paranoid.
4. Notice how Williams' and Schaffner’s descriptions differ from Mucklow’s. Remember Mucklow spent the most time with Cooper and in what might be described as “his personal space.”
Descriptions of Cooper:
Mucklow:
"W/M, mid 40's, 5-10" 6', 180 to 190, med to dark complexion, medium build, dark straight hair with narrow sideburns to mid ear parted and combed back, dark plastic wrap-around sunglasses, dark top coat, dark brown suit possibly with a thin black stripe, brown socks, brown ankle length pebble grain shoes, not the tie type, he had a low voice with no accent, she did not see scars, marks or tattoos, the man did not have on any jewelry she could see."
Schaffner:
"W/M, mid 40's, 6', 170-175, average build, brown eyes, straight black hair medium length and parted on the left side, olive skin, black business suit, white shirt, thin black tie, black overcoat, black shoes, black briefcase, dark framed sunglasses with brown lenses, no scars marks or tattoos, he had a normal calm voice and appeared to be of Latin descent."
When Mucklow mentions the possibility of a “thin black stripe” on a dark brown suit, it seems she was pretty sure the predominate color was brown. Also, Williams uses no description of complexion (swarthy, Latin descent, Olive skin… etc.).
Anybody have any other thoughts?
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While conducting very in-depth research about issues that can only be described as “minutia,” I happened across a Xerox copy of an article written in 1980 or 1981 (I have assigned this date, based on the phrases “10 years ago” and “approximately $6000 found” in the article) about Hal Williams, the Ticket Agent that sold Cooper his ticket. Williams was listed as “a former Northwest employee” in some of the comments ( by NWA) from other sources of that period.
Please take note that approximately 25% of the article is unreadable (the right-hand margin). I have indicated the end of the readable page with xxxxxxxxx.
The article was titled; “Ticket agent won’t forget xxxxxxxxx” and was written by a respected journalist working (at the time) for The Oregonian. His name is John Guernsey (now deceased).
Here are some pull-quotes from the article (I have omitted outer quote marks for clarity, everything in quotes are Williams’ words):
Little did he know at the time, but Hal Williams will never be allowed to forget the man all dressed in black he met 10 years ago on Thanksgiving Eve.
Williams was the ticket agent at the gate for the Northwest Orient flight. The man dressed all in black – including a black attaché case – was Dan Cooper, the first hijacker to parachute from a plane. He hasn’t been seen or heard from since.
“I couldn’t help but notice him,” said Williams, who operates Royal Oak Furniture Refinishing in Portland. “His clothing was all black, including his shoes and his attaché case. Even his hair was kind of Black”
“It was about three in the afternoon, and the other 20 or thirty people waiting for the flight to Seattle were milling around – laughing and back-slapping. But he stood off to himself … very calm and quiet … and looking out the window most of the time.”
“No, I didn’t suspect anything bad while observing him. He looked like a sharp businessman to me. But I noticed him quite a bit because his behavior was different from the others, and he was all in black during the day of polyesters and plaids.”
And, later in the article:
“The FBI talked with xxxxxxxxx
years – after the xxxxxxxxx
just kept coming back. xxxxxxxxx
through my mind once xxxxxxxxx
maybe they thought I xxxxxxxxx
with Cooper,” Williams xxxxxxxxx
“And the people I xxxxxxxxx
were always teasing me xxxxxxxxx
I was going to do with xxxxxxxxx
money. All that talk xxxxxxxxx
while, but then it got to xxxxxxxxx
And later:
It was Williams who xxxxxxxxx
Cooper description from xxxxxxxxx
drew facial pictures of xxxxxxxxx
“The composite drawing xxxxxxxxx
[remainder obliterated]
So, what’s this all about?
I have expressed many times how irritated I get with the media’s (then and now) lack of accuracy in reporting. This article is not excluded from that feeling just because Guernsey was so respected. But assuming the article is accurate I think there may be some new information here.
If anyone has the entire article (electronic or hard-Copy), I would love to see it. I have exhausted all my resources, including paid services.
1. It appears that the “Bing Crosby (or one of the earlier (more sinister) sketches) were based on, not many witness descriptions, but ONE witness description, namely Williams.
2. Notice that there is no mention of the paper sack. When you look at the detail, if the sack was there, it should have been mentioned in the article. Maybe the paper sack is the FBI’s “Hold-Back Evidence” and they asked witnesses not to mention it in interviews. (This thought is what reminded me of the article and prompted this post.)
3. It also appears that the FBI may have taken the NWA employee conspiracy theory seriously and investigated it. Or, maybe Williams was just paranoid.
4. Notice how Williams' and Schaffner’s descriptions differ from Mucklow’s. Remember Mucklow spent the most time with Cooper and in what might be described as “his personal space.”
Descriptions of Cooper:
Mucklow:
"W/M, mid 40's, 5-10" 6', 180 to 190, med to dark complexion, medium build, dark straight hair with narrow sideburns to mid ear parted and combed back, dark plastic wrap-around sunglasses, dark top coat, dark brown suit possibly with a thin black stripe, brown socks, brown ankle length pebble grain shoes, not the tie type, he had a low voice with no accent, she did not see scars, marks or tattoos, the man did not have on any jewelry she could see."
Schaffner:
"W/M, mid 40's, 6', 170-175, average build, brown eyes, straight black hair medium length and parted on the left side, olive skin, black business suit, white shirt, thin black tie, black overcoat, black shoes, black briefcase, dark framed sunglasses with brown lenses, no scars marks or tattoos, he had a normal calm voice and appeared to be of Latin descent."
When Mucklow mentions the possibility of a “thin black stripe” on a dark brown suit, it seems she was pretty sure the predominate color was brown. Also, Williams uses no description of complexion (swarthy, Latin descent, Olive skin… etc.).
Anybody have any other thoughts?
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377 21
Quote377, I do not recall any evidence of Cooper wearing gloves. Then again he may have had in his pocket, bag, whatever and put them on before he jumped. Ckret readily admitted that they did not know if any of the found prints were Cooper's; he also mentioned that the real prints of value came from the magazines, but that they had no witnesses that actually saw Cooper reading any magazine
I am thinking he might have put gloves on. Cooper would have had to grip some parts of the 727 ventral stair structure tightly as he descended. Much aircraft structure is aluminum and I have even seen prints etched into the surface of aluminum when left by sweaty (acidic) hands. Anodizing and other surface anti corrosion treatments might prevent this, but a lot of aluminum on planes is not coated.
If Cooper had gloves and was a novice jumper with a very hard pull, the gloves may have contributed to a no pull. You can feel metal with your fingers but with gloves on a lot of tactile info is lost. Add panic, night, tumbling etc and you may have a packed rig and a skeleton out there somewhere.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteAs for Occam, what does he think the CIA was doing when they spent 6% of their budget on mind control?
One thing we do know, however, they were tortuting and killing innocent people at the Allen Insitute.
So, how far will Occam's razor cut through this sordid mess? Will it find the heart of the matter?
Bruce,
I do concede that the CIA has done some VERY weird stuff with my tax money, including absurd research into whether psychics could detect submerged subs as they flew over them in trans Atlantic passenger planes. They covertly dosed people with LSD, hired prostitutes, and undoubtedly caused at least one suicide and more drug induced mental illnesses in MK ULTRA experiments.
Still, your idea that NORJACK was a CIA action just doesn't seem plausible to me. Why involve a public airline and passengers? That added tons of risk. How did it add to the value of the "experiment"?
MK ULTRA was leaked, discovered, thoroughly exposed, proving my thesis that big government conspiracies cannot stay secret forever.
If NORJACK was a CIA action, I think it would have been exposed by now. Nobody died so the personal risk of exposure is a lot less than with MK ULTRA. If Obama is giving torturers a free pass because they were following orders, surely no CIA operatives who were involved in NORJACK would be going to prison in 2009.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Quoteyou may have a packed rig and a skeleton out there somewhere.
Nope... I disagree...
It would have opened on the second or third bounce!
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377 21
QuoteAll I've got is Ron Forman's word, 377, saying he jumped in tandem with Barb. Is there any reason to doubt Ron? Do you think more conclusive proof is necessary?
Yes, I do.
I'd like more detail. What DZ? What tandem rig? Where was Barb trained and certified as a tandem master? Tandem jumping is a very specialized subset of skydiving. I have been jumping for over 40 years and I have absolutely no idea how to operate a tandem rig.
It takes a lot of training and you have to get certified. You can't just go rent a tandem rig and take a friend as a passenger. Every tandem rig mfr has a different setup. There is no one size fits all tandem certification as I understand it. Tandem jumping is very common now, but it was not in the 70s.
Barb or Bobby seems like a yarn spinner to me. Big talk, lots of boasting, claims to have been involved in extraordinary events, etc. It might all be true but it sure triggers my skeptic alarms.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
Very interesting and thought provoking post Sluggo.
I wonder how much "backplotting" the ticket agent might have done, even unconsciously. Did he really pay so much attention to Cooper at the time of the ticket purchase or, after the highjack, did he reconstruct his memory? Everyone wants to appear sharp and it wouldnt have been sharp to have payed no attention to Cooper prior to the hijack. That gives a motive to exaggerate.
I'd tend to give more credence to the descriptions given by those who spent the most time in close proximity to Cooper.
Psychologists research this stuff (reliability of eyewitness accounts) , but I am unfamiliar with the exact results. I do know that stress affects accuracy big time and that people have prototype "bad guy" descriptions that they revert to when they don't really recall appearances. The first Cooper sketch does not look very sinister, does it? Maybe it was reasonably accurate.
I keep thinking Cooper must have either significantly altered his appearance or was not domiciled in the US. If he lived here surely he would have worried about neighbors or aquaintances recognizing the sketch. If you lived far abroad, especially in a remote area, probably nobody local would see the sketches and make the connection.
Do we really know what Cooper looked like? What do you think Sluggo?
377
I wonder how much "backplotting" the ticket agent might have done, even unconsciously. Did he really pay so much attention to Cooper at the time of the ticket purchase or, after the highjack, did he reconstruct his memory? Everyone wants to appear sharp and it wouldnt have been sharp to have payed no attention to Cooper prior to the hijack. That gives a motive to exaggerate.
I'd tend to give more credence to the descriptions given by those who spent the most time in close proximity to Cooper.
Psychologists research this stuff (reliability of eyewitness accounts) , but I am unfamiliar with the exact results. I do know that stress affects accuracy big time and that people have prototype "bad guy" descriptions that they revert to when they don't really recall appearances. The first Cooper sketch does not look very sinister, does it? Maybe it was reasonably accurate.
I keep thinking Cooper must have either significantly altered his appearance or was not domiciled in the US. If he lived here surely he would have worried about neighbors or aquaintances recognizing the sketch. If you lived far abroad, especially in a remote area, probably nobody local would see the sketches and make the connection.
Do we really know what Cooper looked like? What do you think Sluggo?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteQuoteyou may have a packed rig and a skeleton out there somewhere.
Nope... I disagree...
It would have opened on the second or third bounce!
Dark humor Sluggo.
I'd bet a C 9 canopy in an unextended NB6 container would stay closed no matter what you put it through. I wish Nitrochute could find the parts to assemble a Cooper rig and measure pull forces.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
Very interesting Sluggo... thanks.
I have said before how odd it is that Schaffner and Mucklow described the suit as different colours, I am inclined now to think of the suit as black.
Also, when he says
- firstly, you obviously can get black polyester. Can we deduce that the suit was not polyester and therefore not a cheap suit? (although i don't know how this squares with the clip-on tie and cheap tie pin)
- secondly, is thre anything in the article that actually describes how or why his behaviour was "different from the others"? Is it only the quiet vs laughing bit - which doesn't really strike me as unusual for someone travelling on his own?
Do we know when the paper sack was first mentioned? On the other hand, can we be sure that some of the aspects that seem to have been left out were not just in the illegible bits (it's hard to tell without actually looking at the copy as you can).
I have said before how odd it is that Schaffner and Mucklow described the suit as different colours, I am inclined now to think of the suit as black.
Also, when he says
QuoteHe looked like a sharp businessman to me. But I noticed him quite a bit because his behavior was different from the others, and he was all in black during the day of polyesters and plaids.”
- firstly, you obviously can get black polyester. Can we deduce that the suit was not polyester and therefore not a cheap suit? (although i don't know how this squares with the clip-on tie and cheap tie pin)
- secondly, is thre anything in the article that actually describes how or why his behaviour was "different from the others"? Is it only the quiet vs laughing bit - which doesn't really strike me as unusual for someone travelling on his own?
Do we know when the paper sack was first mentioned? On the other hand, can we be sure that some of the aspects that seem to have been left out were not just in the illegible bits (it's hard to tell without actually looking at the copy as you can).
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Orange1 0
QuoteIf Cooper had gloves and was a novice jumper with a very hard pull, the gloves may have contributed to a no pull. You can feel metal with your fingers but with gloves on a lot of tactile info is lost. Add panic, night, tumbling etc and you may have a packed rig and a skeleton out there somewhere.
377
True, and there are enough posts in incidents and safety & training to confirm that.
Hmmm... a packed rig out there somewhere...i wonder, if people were looking for an open parachute would they have perhaps missed that?
fwiw, I agree entirely with your response to Bruce about the Barb/tandem story. In any case solid research should look for backup rather than just take someone's word at face value?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 21
QuoteHmmm... a packed rig out there somewhere...i wonder, if people were looking for an open parachute would they have perhaps missed that?
Perhaps. The colors (olive drab, sage green, etc) of the military bailout harnesses and containers were designed to blend in with vegetation.
If Cooper went in as a no pull. I'd expect there would eventually have been a powerful odor from his decomposing body, but maybe he was eaten quickly before that could happen. Jerry could tell us how long it would take for scavengers to eat his body down to the bone. I do think a packed NB 6 rig would be very hard to spot in green vegetation.
I have seen deer and coyote carcasses after scavengers had ripped them up. There isn't a lot left to rot, mostly leathery skin, hair and bone.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
Quoteis thre anything in the article that actually describes how or why his behaviour was "different from the others"? Is it only the quiet vs laughing bit - which doesn't really strike me as unusual for someone travelling on his own?
Agree Orange. Perfectly normal behavior becomes significant and unusual AFTER the hijack. Retrospective reconstruction may be at work here. The ticket agent becomes a savvy detective post NORJACK. He knew that guy in black was up to something, etc etc.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377,
See the section below about the official sketches.
Orange1,
No, we don’t know what and/or when the “Grandfather Article” about the paper sack was published. At least I don’t. That is one of the things I have been researching (the minutia previously mentioned).
I welcome some help on this. I have a bunch of articles on my web site in chronological order, in case someone wants to try to find the first mention of the sack (at least in those articles), then we could have a target for a broader search. I tend to get bogged down, and it will be awhile before I can get to it.
Official Sketches
I am only dealing (right now) with the FBI produced/commissioned sketches.
I’m not sure which sketch is based on Williams’ testimony, but I suspect it is the file named: Initial FBI Sketch of Dan (D B ) Cooper (1971).jpg. I call it the Michael J. Fox sketch and this is the best image I have. Anyone got a better one?
The two first “B” sketches are the ones that I call “the sinister sketches.” (Files: Sketch BUR 164-2111 SE 164-8x B – 2.jpg and Sketch BUR 164-2111 SE 164-81 B.jpg). These preceded the “B” sketch that was created in June of 1999 and has been widely published since 2000. However, I have no idea when they were done and what testimony they were based on.
The file: Cooper - Bing Crosby.jpg was used for sometime Prior to 1999, but I don't know how long or what it is based on.
File: DBCooper Most Recent B-Composite (Jun 1999).jpg is the most recent “B” sketch and was published in 2000.
File: SE 164A-81 Aged Composite (Jun 1999).jpg is just what it says. An age-progressed sketch based on the 06/1999 “B” composite and published in 2000.
If anyone has information that will help straighten out this confusing progression of official sketches, PLEASE contact me.
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I don’t think we have the foggiest idea what he looked like. If an actual eye-witness, who observed Cooper at close range, and had graphic artist skills, produced a sketch, I would have some faith in that.QuoteDo we really know what Cooper looked like? What do you think Sluggo?
See the section below about the official sketches.
Orange1,
The Cronkite video has been removed from YouTube for “Terms of Use” violation. But I did review some captured stills. I see no one (males) wearing “plaid” (I have no way to ID polyesters). I’m not and have never been a “Clothes-horse,” but I’m not sure that in 1971 polyester equated to cheap. The first polyester suits I ever saw were marketed to traveling businessmen and were very expensive. This was not the case by 1976 – 1981. I’m wondering if Williams forgot to wear his “culture goggles on the day of the interview.Quote- firstly, you obviously can get black polyester. Can we deduce that the suit was not polyester and therefore not a cheap suit? (although i don't know how this squares with the clip-on tie and cheap tie pin)
I have attached a scan of all I have (sorry about the resolution). The article could have even been on more than one page, I just don’t know. That’s why I have spent so much time and money to locate a copy of the whole article.Quote- secondly, is thre anything in the article that actually describes how or why his behaviour was "different from the others"? Is it only the quiet vs laughing bit - which doesn't really strike me as unusual for someone travelling on his own?
See the attached file Hal Williams Interview.jpg.QuoteDo we know when the paper sack was first mentioned? On the other hand, can we be sure that some of the aspects that seem to have been left out were not just in the illegible bits (it's hard to tell without actually looking at the copy as you can).
No, we don’t know what and/or when the “Grandfather Article” about the paper sack was published. At least I don’t. That is one of the things I have been researching (the minutia previously mentioned).
I welcome some help on this. I have a bunch of articles on my web site in chronological order, in case someone wants to try to find the first mention of the sack (at least in those articles), then we could have a target for a broader search. I tend to get bogged down, and it will be awhile before I can get to it.
Official Sketches
I am only dealing (right now) with the FBI produced/commissioned sketches.
I’m not sure which sketch is based on Williams’ testimony, but I suspect it is the file named: Initial FBI Sketch of Dan (D B ) Cooper (1971).jpg. I call it the Michael J. Fox sketch and this is the best image I have. Anyone got a better one?
The two first “B” sketches are the ones that I call “the sinister sketches.” (Files: Sketch BUR 164-2111 SE 164-8x B – 2.jpg and Sketch BUR 164-2111 SE 164-81 B.jpg). These preceded the “B” sketch that was created in June of 1999 and has been widely published since 2000. However, I have no idea when they were done and what testimony they were based on.
The file: Cooper - Bing Crosby.jpg was used for sometime Prior to 1999, but I don't know how long or what it is based on.
File: DBCooper Most Recent B-Composite (Jun 1999).jpg is the most recent “B” sketch and was published in 2000.
File: SE 164A-81 Aged Composite (Jun 1999).jpg is just what it says. An age-progressed sketch based on the 06/1999 “B” composite and published in 2000.
If anyone has information that will help straighten out this confusing progression of official sketches, PLEASE contact me.
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377 21
QuoteI don’t think we have the foggiest idea what he looked like. If an actual eye-witness, who observed Cooper at close range, and had graphic artist skills, produced a sketch, I would have some faith in that.
I have often wondered if Cooper survived and saw the sketches whether he breathed a huge sigh of relief knowing that they missed the mark completely and nobody would ever think he was the person depicted.
Try to imagine a Cooper who doesnt look anything like the drawings. It is very hard to do. They have become Cooper.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
To me, it’s almost laughable. The most common comment about any of the major suspects (except Ted E. Mayfield) is: “… And he sure looks like Cooper!” As if the sketch(es) are in-fact a real person.QuoteTry to imagine a Cooper who doesnt look anything like the drawings. It is very hard to do. They have become Cooper.
The FBI pursued Rackstraw and the guy who robbed the bank with a note that had “DB Cooper” written on it (I can’t recall the name, and I’m too lazy to look it up) with a vengeance. Neither one of them looked ANYTHING like the composite drawings.
Is that a testimony to the FBI’s faith in the fidelity of the drawings?
Yet, as late as June 1999, the Bureau was commissioning new sketches... Go figure?????
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377 21
QuoteYet, as late as June 1999, the Bureau was commissioning new sketches... Go figure?????
As a taxpayer I have to question the utility of commssioning a new Cooper sketch 28 years after the crime. Someone in the bureau probably had a little extra money in the budget and a friend who was an artist.
Hey Ckret, it's a new day, Obama is the new big boss. Torture is OK if you were just following orders so nobody is gonna fire you just for posting here. At least put in a guest appearance once in a while.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
You're right, 377, about the absurdity of using a commercial flight as a training exercise. It makes no sense from a bureaucractic, political, or even operational point of view.
And even from a govt that has done plenty of wacky stuff, as you have pointed out.
But still, I come back to the loose ends - why the death-bed confessions, McCoy in Vegas, Duane in P'land, Gossett whereever, etc.? I'm just looking for an over-arching concept, a hypothesis, that ties them together.
And even from a govt that has done plenty of wacky stuff, as you have pointed out.
But still, I come back to the loose ends - why the death-bed confessions, McCoy in Vegas, Duane in P'land, Gossett whereever, etc.? I'm just looking for an over-arching concept, a hypothesis, that ties them together.
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There may be nothing more than human psychology that ties it all together. I can see why people might want others to think they were Cooper. After all, he was a folk hero of sorts, a Robin Hood, a guy who outsmarted the FBI and who showed great cunning and courage. If you had drifted through life without accomplishing anything substantial (as Clark Kent) you might want your loved ones to think that that you were really Superman.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
As for Occam's edge dulling, remember what we are cutting here: one-of-a-kind intelligence operatives. Guys who do big jobs and don't come back. Guys who leave no loose ends, no trace of their existence - no family or curious friends wondering what happened, etc. How do you train an operative like that? Send him to Fort Benning????
As for Occam, what does he think the CIA was doing when they spent 6% of their budget on mind control?
One thing we do know, however, they were tortuting and killing innocent people at the Allen Insitute.
So, how far will Occam's razor cut through this sordid mess? Will it find the heart of the matter?
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