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Maybe the DB that boarded the plane WAS in disguise of sorts, maybe he was a long haired bearded hippy that went 'white collar' just for the job, knowing no one would recognize him looking that way. 
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
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QuoteMaybe the DB that boarded the plane WAS in disguise of sorts, maybe he was a long haired bearded hippy that went 'white collar' just for the job, knowing no one would recognize him looking that way.
Hmmm, that actually might have worked. Now that long haired hippie jumpers are persons of interest half the old timers who post here are now prime suspects.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
Twardo has a good point!
Well... I dunno, with local connections and at least a passing familiarity to the sketch, was Gossett ever interviewed at the time? Does anyone have any idea where he was based at the time of the hijacking? (Sorry if that has been mentioned somewhere...)
But yes 377 has a good point re lack of disguise. Then again... we don't really know do we? Someone posted a link about the "complexion" being faked (not sure how reliable that was), hair dye would have been easily available... how much else can you do to not get yourself noticed when about to board a plane? Did McCoy et al wear disguises? I certianly wouldn't dismiss the thought that he wasn't local and probably foreign domiciled. I guess a lot could be answered if we knew why that flight was chosen.
Well... I dunno, with local connections and at least a passing familiarity to the sketch, was Gossett ever interviewed at the time? Does anyone have any idea where he was based at the time of the hijacking? (Sorry if that has been mentioned somewhere...)
But yes 377 has a good point re lack of disguise. Then again... we don't really know do we? Someone posted a link about the "complexion" being faked (not sure how reliable that was), hair dye would have been easily available... how much else can you do to not get yourself noticed when about to board a plane? Did McCoy et al wear disguises? I certianly wouldn't dismiss the thought that he wasn't local and probably foreign domiciled. I guess a lot could be answered if we knew why that flight was chosen.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
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QuoteI guess a lot could be answered if we knew why that flight was chosen.
First, great to see you back in the hood Twardo!
I think the flight was chosen for a big expanse of suitable drop area traversed shortly after take off. By giving the crew a destination that dictated a certain flight direction, arrival over the "DZ" could be roughly confirmed just by exit timing, no need for precise navigation.
I think McCoy selected his flight because he knew the area it covered and had a roughly defined "DZ" picked out. I think Cooper used the same logic.
You not only need a decent landing area, you need viable egress paths and civilization nearby. Landing in the middle of the Mojave Desert (CA) or Ruby Marsh (NV) would not be optimal.
An accomplice waiting on the ground with a car is a great idea, but your chances of landing near your accomplice in the pre GPS era are very very low. A boat pickup would be a novel idea but even harder to coordinate. Radios could help a pickup, but there is no evidence that Cooper had one.
I know we have the pressure bump, but what if Cooper exited a hundred miles or more from where we think he did? His body could be in a place where nobody has looked.
The pressure bump is compelling evidence as to when the exit occurred, but could Cooper have spoofed it? What if he gave a big bounce at the bottom of the stairs but didn't exit, climbed back up the stairs and exited much later going over the side of the stairs nearer the fuselage? Perhaps he climbed back up after the bounce and made a leap rearward from near the top of the stairs where the moment arm would cause far less stair deflection than going all the way to the bottom. All this is unlikely, but would it allow a much later exit that went undetected by the crew?
The Tena Bar money find argues against all this exit spoof speculation and Occams razor says (to me) that the money find was legit, but my street smarts still smell a rat. Tom, whats up with your analysis?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
wouldn't that argument assume that Cooper knew an exit would result in a pressure bump? .. that really only takes us back to the Air America drops then, how else could he know?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
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Good point Orange. You'd have to have been a 727 crew member or someone other than the first to exit to know about the pressure event.
I think an exit point spoof is VERY unlikely, but Cooper's chute is out there somewhere. They find money and even a door placard, but no canopy or rig. That suggests they might have been looking in the wrong place... but then there is that damed money find that brings me back to reality.
My bet is that the Air America 727 jumps were on the grapevine shortly after they occured and were eventually known by many in the SE Asia war zone and beyond.
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I think an exit point spoof is VERY unlikely, but Cooper's chute is out there somewhere. They find money and even a door placard, but no canopy or rig. That suggests they might have been looking in the wrong place... but then there is that damed money find that brings me back to reality.
My bet is that the Air America 727 jumps were on the grapevine shortly after they occured and were eventually known by many in the SE Asia war zone and beyond.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
QuoteThat suggests they might have been looking in the wrong place...
or: as has been stated before... no-pull rig in good camo color, + stripped /scavenged remains. or somewhere underwater.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Quote
Somebody told Jo watches were a source for dna. Jo didnt come up with this on her own. And you dont have to take the watches to take swabs orevidence from them - that is usually done on site.
Thank You. Guess who told me that the watches would be good DNA sources? Yours Truely - Sluggo, when he was here. The FBI was aware of the watches - actually there were 3 of them, but one didn't work - old rectangular watch with a checker broad face - must have been something sentimental about it. I have started to get rid of it many times - I am not aware that he ever wore that watch.
There is absolutely no reason to allow Sluggo to present "my" case to the thread. I respect his efforts not to discuss his "opinions" of anything he derived from his visit.
Something "accidently" was made available to him that would result in a lawsuit against me should it be made public. He felt this "thing" was vital...I do not and the FBI investigated this "thing". It is NOT worth spending my life and my money in a court room...and I assure you that is where that "thing" would go.
Sluggo only got to see about 1/10th of the information and materials. His judgement would be premature without the complete picture. He is an extremely bright and intelligent and enjoyable man - but, like myself has his own "theories" which like mine do self-adjust at times. This is a logical thing in any investigation and in researching information.
The Soledac was discussed - he thought it to be a prison in New York for hardened criminal (Sluggo correct me if I am wrong).
Because of his statement I started to research the thing - this is what I found:
I found that this Soledac (Soledad) was a community in CA with a correctional institution - very close to the area his family lived in. This transfer was for only ONE day while he was in SanQuentin and Folsom. It therefore probably had something to do with an appeal, another crime or his fathers illness...I do not have a clue. There is one positive thing - it was not what or where Sluggo thought it to be.
I respect Sluggo and liked bouncing things off of him, but he like myself and others is only human. I did not give that interview for it to be analyzed on a thread. I had hoped, he and I could take what he learned and with his brilliant mind be able to shuffle some of the "crap" out to make some sense out of all the "Stuff" privately. THAT invitation is still open to him in combination with other individuals who have spent a great deal of money and time on the subject of Duane Weber versus Cooper and the Cooper Caper in general.
01. Sluggo with his flight knowledge
02. xx with is knowledge of Wa.
03. 377 - with his knowledge of law
04. xx with his research of Cooper
05. xx with his research of another subject
06. Georger - because of certain insight I
am sure he has.
07. NickG because of who he is
What would be needed:
01. Duane's Complete File
02. Detailed information about the CPS's
camps and the early fire industry from
1935 to 1950 with every concieveable
picture available.
03. A friend of mine (retired Government
employee)
04. Pitures of Derry and his associates and
friends including the wives.
05. Detailed DNA reports on the item
retrieve from me.
06. Actual visit by all to the areas in WA I
have addressed.
07. The back ground of Tony and Tommy
08. Actually close-up pictures of the tie
clip and the back of it (was never
provided by the FBI).
09. Photos of Tina as a child
10. The "books" with pic of child.
11. Documented tape of the "tie" story.
12. The co-pilot in person
13. There are several others who I
would like to meet and talk
to. Old-time jumpers who I have
talked to over the yrs.
14. A complete history of the Forestry
with names and any pics available
from 1935 to 1950 in CA, OR, WA,
UT and ID
15. Pipeline employee list "42" to "50".
I don't even know why I am listing these things - just my wish list I guess.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
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***There is absolutely no reason to allow Sluggo to present "my" case to the thread. I respect his efforts not to discuss his "opinions" of anything he derived from his visit.
I disagree Jo. As long as you "manage" what we see and what we don't see, your credibility will continue to suffer.
Something "accidently" was made available to him that would result in a lawsuit against me should it be made public. He felt this "thing" was vital...I do not and the FBI investigated this "thing". It is NOT worth spending my life and my money in a court room...and I assure you that is where that "thing" would go.
People always hugely overestimate the likelihood of litigation stemming from this kind of stuff. First, TRUTH is a defense to slander, PERIOD. Second, contingency lawyers are greedy and a case without a deep pocket defendant just doesnt interest them at all. VERY few people will fund litigation on their own unless there is a big payoff at the end, which in your case is very unlikely.
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I disagree Jo. As long as you "manage" what we see and what we don't see, your credibility will continue to suffer.
Something "accidently" was made available to him that would result in a lawsuit against me should it be made public. He felt this "thing" was vital...I do not and the FBI investigated this "thing". It is NOT worth spending my life and my money in a court room...and I assure you that is where that "thing" would go.
People always hugely overestimate the likelihood of litigation stemming from this kind of stuff. First, TRUTH is a defense to slander, PERIOD. Second, contingency lawyers are greedy and a case without a deep pocket defendant just doesnt interest them at all. VERY few people will fund litigation on their own unless there is a big payoff at the end, which in your case is very unlikely.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 197
QuoteMaybe the DB that boarded the plane WAS in disguise of sorts, maybe he was a long haired bearded hippy that went 'white collar' just for the job, knowing no one would recognize him looking that way.
good idea. or a homeless person.
georger 197
QuoteTwardo has a good point!
Well... I dunno, with local connections and at least a passing familiarity to the sketch, was Gossett ever interviewed at the time? Does anyone have any idea where he was based at the time of the hijacking? (Sorry if that has been mentioned somewhere...)
But yes 377 has a good point re lack of disguise. Then again... we don't really know do we? Someone posted a link about the "complexion" being faked (not sure how reliable that was), hair dye would have been easily available... how much else can you do to not get yourself noticed when about to board a plane? Did McCoy et al wear disguises? I certianly wouldn't dismiss the thought that he wasn't local and probably foreign domiciled. I guess a lot could be answered if we knew why that flight was chosen.
more maybe forthcoming on this. Thats all I can say
but I hope so.
Cooper spent time in the head. He didnt go there just to hide.
georger 197
QuoteQuoteI guess a lot could be answered if we knew why that flight was chosen.
First, great to see you back in the hood Twardo!
I think the flight was chosen for a big expanse of suitable drop area traversed shortly after take off. By giving the crew a destination that dictated a certain flight direction, arrival over the "DZ" could be roughly confirmed just by exit timing, no need for precise navigation.
I think McCoy selected his flight because he knew the area it covered and had a roughly defined "DZ" picked out. I think Cooper used the same logic.
You not only need a decent landing area, you need viable egress paths and civilization nearby. Landing in the middle of the Mojave Desert (CA) or Ruby Marsh (NV) would not be optimal.
An accomplice waiting on the ground with a car is a great idea, but your chances of landing near your accomplice in the pre GPS era are very very low. A boat pickup would be a novel idea but even harder to coordinate. Radios could help a pickup, but there is no evidence that Cooper had one.
I know we have the pressure bump, but what if Cooper exited a hundred miles or more from where we think he did? His body could be in a place where nobody has looked.
The pressure bump is compelling evidence as to when the exit occurred, but could Cooper have spoofed it? What if he gave a big bounce at the bottom of the stairs but didn't exit, climbed back up the stairs and exited much later going over the side of the stairs nearer the fuselage? Perhaps he climbed back up after the bounce and made a leap rearward from near the top of the stairs where the moment arm would cause far less stair deflection than going all the way to the bottom. All this is unlikely, but would it allow a much later exit that went undetected by the crew?
The Tena Bar money find argues against all this exit spoof speculation and Occams razor says (to me) that the money find was legit, but my street smarts still smell a rat. Tom, whats up with your analysis?
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I dont think there was any way to spoof the
oscillations/bump. Moreover I am still compelled
to believe (reading betwene lines) that they checked
the back by ~8:20; and we know they did later.
But this can all be placed in context, unless the
FBi is hiding something or has rigged what we think
we know. I am referring to the NWA map which I
call the NWA Probability Map.
If the NWA Probability Map is real and can be taken
at face value then nobody was sure where Cooper had bailed (by the time the map was being prepared
and presented to guide a search). This map clearly shows they felt the highest probability was in the vicinity of Merwin Lake which means they thought the "oscillations/bump" occurred over that area.
(The NWA map is NWA's timeline).
A lower probability of jump begins south of Merwin Lake finally ending in Oregon, which shows there
was uncertainty about the flight path time line..
but the reason(s) for that uncertainty is not clear
to me and has never been fully discussed here.
This uncertainty NWA had is vital to this case.
We have to assume the oscillations/bump was
the basis for assigning a jump point, but the uncertainty is the exact time, which means the crew was probably not keeping an independent time
log. (eg. Rat's statement: 10 minutes after ... seems to define the accuracy of any time line the crew was keeping, so they were relying on others they were in contact with which is very interesting!, unless we are not being told the whole story).
The historical accuracy of how the NWA map was
developed (by who etc) is vital to the key facts
of this case. The FBI and Ckret were reluctant to
even talk about this much less explore it - which
I found interesting. Sluggo balked at discussing it
until he finally just said "I dont know". Maybe the
FBI doesnt know either! Maybe NWA was never really sure ... which is EXACTLY what the NWA Probability
map itself seems to imply in literal terms.
But if you shift the NWA map down by several clicks
south, you probably have a truer account of the
key flight aspects of this case, and where Cooper
bailed and all of the events which are dependent
on that frame of reference in this case.
Quote***
From all we can tell, Cooper had no major disguise. Whoever Cooper was, he made a safe bet that his acquaintances would not ID him from the sketches that he knew would be prepared from witness descriptions. That is a clue and to me it says he was not a local, and perhaps was even foreign domiciled.
We don't talk much about the lack of a disguise, but it is a major issue and tells us something. Either Cooper didn't care if he was later ID'd or he did care but knew that the chances were very low. What did he GAIN by having no disguise? I mean why not use one?Quote
Regarding disguises, it is my understanding that:
1. Galen Cook, on his Coast-to-Coast radio appearances, if I remember correctly, said that Florence Schaffner told him that she thought DB Cooper was wearing make-up. I remember him saying that Schaffner told him that “a woman notices those kinds of things.”
2. In his book, Ralph H. says that early on in the investigation that he was very concerned Cooper wore make-up or a disguise. He never followed up on this point in the book, though, as far as I remember.
3. Russ Calame states that McCoy clearly had lots of make-up on, supposedly to make himself appear more Latino or olive-toned. Russ, thought, and still does I believe, that DB Cooper had make-up on and that McCoy was improving upon his "first" skyjacking, namely Flight 305.
georger 197
I tend to put this in personal termsQuoteGood point Orange. You'd have to have been a 727 crew member or someone other than the first to exit to know about the pressure event.
I think an exit point spoof is VERY unlikely, but Cooper's chute is out there somewhere. They find money and even a door placard, but no canopy or rig. That suggests they might have been looking in the wrong place... but then there is that damed money find that brings me back to reality.
My bet is that the Air America 727 jumps were on the grapevine shortly after they occured and were eventually known by many in the SE Asia war zone and beyond.
377
and I am dead serious. ie, if I heard of it then
hundreds/thousands heard of it! In fact, it is
even broader than that! It was a very open secret.
georger 197
QuoteQuote
Somebody told Jo watches were a source for dna. Jo didnt come up with this on her own. And you dont have to take the watches to take swabs orevidence from them - that is usually done on site.Thank You. Guess who told me that the watches would be good DNA sources? Yours Truely - Sluggo, when he was here.
The FBI was aware of the watches - actually there were 3 of them, but one didn't work - old rectangular watch with a checker broad face - must have been something sentimental about it. I have started to get rid of it many times - I am not aware that he ever wore that watch.
Did the FBi show any interest in the watches?
Im going to guess they didn't. If I am wrong
please correct.
georger 197
Quote***There is absolutely no reason
Personal remark: I had five calves born starting
late Wednesday, the last about 4:00pm yesterday
afternoon right in front of my eyes! Really cool!
The newborns spent the whole of today sunning themselves in the east pasture, with lots of spectators watching and petting ... the place has
turned into a public zoo@
georger 197
1. Galen Cook, on his Coast-to-Coast radio appearances, if I remember correctly, said that Florence Schaffner told him that she thought DB Cooper was wearing make-up. I remember him saying that Schaffner told him that “a woman notices those kinds of things.”
2. In his book, Ralph H. says that early on in the investigation that he was very concerned Cooper wore make-up or a disguise. He never followed up on this point in the book, though, as far as I remember.
3. Russ Calame states that McCoy clearly had lots of make-up on, supposedly to make himself appear more Latino or olive-toned. Russ, thought, and still does I believe, that DB Cooper had make-up on and that McCoy was improving upon his "first" skyjacking, namely Flight 305.
2. In his book, Ralph H. says that early on in the investigation that he was very concerned Cooper wore make-up or a disguise. He never followed up on this point in the book, though, as far as I remember.
3. Russ Calame states that McCoy clearly had lots of make-up on, supposedly to make himself appear more Latino or olive-toned. Russ, thought, and still does I believe, that DB Cooper had make-up on and that McCoy was improving upon his "first" skyjacking, namely Flight 305.
how so you account for Tina and others not
reporting any? Have you read Ckret's prior posts
about this?
Have you any other sources for this?
QuoteDid the FBi show any interest in the watches?
Georger - I honestly don't remember if they showed any interest. I know they were aware of the watches - and they knew I with held the watches. I described the 2 watches (that Duane owned prior to our marriage) in detail to Himmelsbach.
One I earlier described as rectangular - but, I was mistaken it is Square. An old Longines with a gold and natural checkered pattern on the face and 4 small diamonds. The band is more like a finely woven bracelet repeating the checkered pattern and intergrated into the watch. The band is Gold plated. The back of the watch plate is 18K which was common yrs ago. No value and it is unrepairable. He never wore this watch during our time together.
The other one I described before, but this watch is in the saftey deposit box. Right now I can't even remember the name of it except to say it was a gyromatic - keeps great time and the band is not the original band. Since the FBI said that no jewelry other than the tie tack was worn by Cooper I did not see the significance after Himmelsbach and I discussed this.
The third watch I gave him is nothing special, but it was the one he wore all the time and the only one that would have had DNA on it I would know to be specific to Weber.
Duane was evaluated in Birmingham for a kidney transplant in 1988 or 1989 - I think they took DNA, but I was told that after he turned down the chance for the transplant it would have been destroyed. He was eligible because he had not yet turned 65. He told me that he had lived a full life and felt it would be wrong to take a kidney that might save a younger persons life.
Duane turing down a chance for a kidney goes right along with the statement he made about feeling responsible for the death of someone else. This is why I think his statement about doing something that caused someone else to get killed - was remorse about McCoy since McCoy was a copycat. He told me about McCoy when we moved to VA and even showed me where he got killed, but the statement about feeling responsible for the death of another was a three or four yrs later. I did not relate the two conversations until I found out who Dan Cooper was and understood the sequence of events relating to Cooper and McCoy.
Co-incidence - maybe. Me connecting unrelated things - maybe. Me lieing - absolutely not. I just want you folks to see that there are many more things other than the confession and what I held in my hands.
It is not just the things he said on the trip and in the hospital - but 17 yrs of little strange things like the McCoy thing.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteQuote***There is absolutely no reason
Personal remark: I had five calves born starting
late Wednesday, the last about 4:00pm yesterday
afternoon right in front of my eyes! Really cool!
The newborns spent the whole of today sunning themselves in the east pasture, with lots of spectators watching and petting ... the place has
turned into a public zoo@
Don't you just love living on a farm - as you already know we had the first herd of White Faced Angus in Ky when I was growing-up.
What was more amazing were the lambs - it was usually cold when they were born and Daddy would bring them to the house and put them in a cardboard box near the large wood burning stove we actually used to cook with. Back then many a sheep would die during the birthing process leaving us to bottle feed the lamb and also some calves. Those human raised lambs actually do follow you around - just like in "Mary Had a Little Lamb".
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Being a local and having easily traceable military connections to parachuting and to Ft Lewis, I just cannot see Gossett doing the crime without a disguise.
From all we can tell, Cooper had no major disguise. Whoever Cooper was, he made a safe bet that his acquaintances would not ID him from the sketches that he knew would be prepared from witness descriptions. That is a clue and to me it says he was not a local, and perhaps was even foreign domiciled.
We don't talk much about the lack of a disguise, but it is a major issue and tells us something. Either Cooper didn't care if he was later ID'd or he did care but knew that the chances were very low. What did he GAIN by having no disguise? I mean why not use one?
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