DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

I put a week's pay on the Snowmman.

Go Snow!

But take 377's beepers, please. T'anks.

[BruceSmith 3]

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Quote

Quote

Why did the FBI devote so many resources to the initial search area? They must have gathared the information from the flight crew. Why would Rat and or Scott never 'bother' to let the FBI know they were searching in the wrong location until 10 years after the fact?!?!? There are some things that just do not add up.

It's very simple if you remember one thing.

Most of this "stuff" you're hearing is direct from Himmelsbach.
Himmelbach made up a whacky theory about where 305 was, and that's what you're hearing. (this was after he left the FBI)

The only problem with the 72 search area, was how they determined the 8:11 jump point. We don't have enough information to really understand, but it seems like they didn't incorporate, or understand, all of the testimony, at the time.

I also think it wasn't "FBI", but outsiders that created the DZ.
They may not have had all the information.

Yes! and it has to be NWA Soderlind group. Who else
would it be? WHO HAS THE VESTED INTEREST AND IS
FEEDING INFO TO THE FBI? - NWA!

This is a corporate matter just as I have said. The FBI
is being directed by NWA, maybe with a little input from
McChord.

But it is NWA wagging all tails, nbot the FBI, not McChord. The FBI and LE are totally reliant on NWA for everything. Thats trhe chain of command dictated by
WHO has the flight info! The probably were many
phone conversations and some with H, all from NWA.

I will say it again: the one source we have nothing zero zip from is ..... NWA! The gaps in info are with NWA.
H probably doesnt know and never knew all of the
discussions and decision making that got passed to
the FBI from .... NWA. Everyone including the FBI
was dependent on who? ... NWA. That is where the missing links are ... at NWA ... and they will never
talk. Why should they! This is a corporate matter.
H doesnt even have all the answers ... H was in
Portland. NWA was at Minneapolis.

Very important insight, G. I like it.

[quade 3]

Quote

This was a man with a past and no future - facing the biggest battle of his life - and without a job and medical assistance. He had spent 17 yrs of his life in prison - he didn’t know any other kind of life. When he got on that plane I believe - he expected to be apprehended on the ground and spend his final yrs in prison with medical assistance. When the money was delivered he was “child like” - I think when that plane lifted off it hit him - "Oh hell what did I get myself into". There was no choice except to jump -“Hell, if I die at least it will be quick” and if he lived he expected to be caught and die in prison. Yes, he was sad - because he was facing prison and death. There is a part of me that thinks he never planned to jump.

Jo, your logic here is flawed.

If he planned on getting caught and spending his life in prison with free medical care then jumping makes no sense at all. In fact, the hi-jacker simply would have turned himself in at the first opportunity.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

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This was a man with a past and no future - facing the biggest battle of his life - and without a job and medical assistance. He had spent 17 yrs of his life in prison - he didn’t know any other kind of life. When he got on that plane I believe - he expected to be apprehended on the ground and spend his final yrs in prison with medical assistance. When the money was delivered he was “child like” - I think when that plane lifted off it hit him - "Oh hell what did I get myself into". There was no choice except to jump -“Hell, if I die at least it will be quick” and if he lived he expected to be caught and die in prison. Yes, he was sad - because he was facing prison and death. There is a part of me that thinks he never planned to jump.

Jo, your logic here is flawed.

If he planned on getting caught and spending his life in prison with free medical care then jumping makes no sense at all. In fact, the hi-jacker simply would have turned himself in at the first opportunity.

You are right - just me trying to figure out the logic of it and I am not very logical sometimes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

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This was a man with a past and no future - facing the biggest battle of his life - and without a job and medical assistance. He had spent 17 yrs of his life in prison - he didn’t know any other kind of life. When he got on that plane I believe - he expected to be apprehended on the ground and spend his final yrs in prison with medical assistance. When the money was delivered he was “child like” - I think when that plane lifted off it hit him - "Oh hell what did I get myself into". There was no choice except to jump -“Hell, if I die at least it will be quick” and if he lived he expected to be caught and die in prison. Yes, he was sad - because he was facing prison and death. There is a part of me that thinks he never planned to jump.

Jo, your logic here is flawed.

If he planned on getting caught and spending his life in prison with free medical care then jumping makes no sense at all. In fact, the hi-jacker simply would have turned himself in at the first opportunity.

And that opportunity may have never come. All demands seem to have been complied with: Rigs, Money T/O, flight direction, unmolested during flight. So Cooper finds himself flat on his back in a cow pasture covered with mud and poo after the jump, $200,000 bag of money intact. Does he turn himself in?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

snowmman,

A small correction here:

Quote

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Loss of the Mode C transponder does not mean the “blip” was lost. It just means the blip has no ID associated with it and the controller isn’t sure of the aircraft’s altitude. (Based on experience from 1991 – 1998 [your mileage may vary]).

Many times when on a flight plan (which I seldom do since I am VFR only) or entering a “Mode C Veil,” I have had a controlled ask that I; “Ident and say altitude,” meaning either I was in a group of other aircraft, (all squawking VFR) or if on a flight plan he just wanted to make sure he had me ID’ed and the Mode C Transponder was returning the correct altitude. This is not unusual. There are “on aircraft” issues that will cause the Mode C Xponder to report the wrong altitude (like a clogged reference port on the pitot-static system.

Also, remember 305 was squawking 3100. In 1971 this was a suggestion from some “international agency” and was probably left up to the individual airline policy. The 7500 “Hijack” code was made part of the FARs sometime later. I looked it up and discussed it with 377 but I don’t remember when. Maybe 377 remembers. Squawking 3100 may have made the ATC a little on edge and wanting to make sure he was "on top of it."

Sluggo_Monster [Very sleepy after driving through a blizzard, but now warm and comfy in a nice motel in Farmington, NM)

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Quote

snowmman,

A small correction here:

Quote

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Loss of the Mode C transponder does not mean the “blip” was lost. It just means the blip has no ID associated with it and the controller isn’t sure of the aircraft’s altitude. (Based on experience from 1991 – 1998 [your mileage may vary]).



Ah okay.

It doesn't matter anyhow. The transponder is lost at 8:54 PST in the transcript. So that was well after the interesting time for Cooper. (edit) as a sanity check: at 200 MPH, they would have gone about another 87 Miles in 26 minutes. So say 190 mile range for the radar, roughly. (edit) just remembered they didn't go in a perfectly straight radial from Seattle, so max radar range was probably less than 190 miles.

I'm assuming the earlier ident requests, and the transponder lost message at 8:54, meant the radar operator had transponder up to 8:54, so minimally, had radar blip till 8:54, from Seattle ARTCC.

Now: if the flight map radar data was from McChord, I'm assuming it was at least as good as Seattle ARTCC, otherwise they would have used Seattle ARTCC. Unless Seattle ARTCC didn't have recording capability or something like that.

• Quote

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

One of the best astro photographers I know, a guy
you would always go to for mathematical solutions
and great astro photography still believes and preaches .... the Earth was created in 4000BC.
And he ahs more people on his side than on mine.

I hear ya Georger. I know a very accomplished PhD physical scientist who literally believes the world was created in seven days. It is in the Bible so it is true, PERIOD! He goes into tortured twisted relativistic time distortion theories to make it work out. Einstein and Feynman would blanche.

Hey, whatever makes you sleep well and not fear death.

377

It was a relative of Bertrand Russell's
(the mathematician) who first calculated the Earth's
age at around 4000BC. His name was Usher (Rev. Usher). He was a distinguished member of the
Royal Geographic Society, knowledgable in geology,
botany, a staunch anti Darwinist and a Minister in the King's Church. He literally had Russell kicked
out of Oxford for a time because of Russell's
'unprincipled rebellious views'. Russell said later
when he was working on his epic "Principia Mathematic" (written with Whitehead) he suddenly had a vision of Usher standing in the corner of the
room one afternoon, and he promptly tore up
everything he had written that day in order to
expunge any influence Usher might have had
that day! Russell never forgave the old bastard.

[georger 197]

Quote

377:
did you brain glitch? or am I missing something about slant range error...

The 305 altitude was just 10,000 ft. And it was in the vicinity of 100 mi away during the critical flight path time, from seatac.

You only have to worry about slant range error being large, when
the object is close, relative to it's altitude. Think about ratio of hypotenuse to adjacent leg of the triangle.

The distance from Seatac to Lake Merwin is about 100 miles as the crow files. That's a 50 to 1 ratio to 309's altitude.

consulting pythagoras:
hyp = sqrt (100**2 + 2**2) = 100.02

so just .02 miles difference between the two measurements.
(100.02 - 100) = .02

Even comparing to McChord Air Base, which is 85 miles.

sqrt (85**2 + 2**2) = 85.02

negligible?

Nice!*****

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Why did the FBI devote so many resources to the initial search area? They must have gathared the information from the flight crew. Why would Rat and or Scott never 'bother' to let the FBI know they were searching in the wrong location until 10 years after the fact?!?!? There are some things that just do not add up.

It's very simple if you remember one thing.

Most of this "stuff" you're hearing is direct from Himmelsbach.
Himmelbach made up a whacky theory about where 305 was, and that's what you're hearing. (this was after he left the FBI)

The only problem with the 72 search area, was how they determined the 8:11 jump point. We don't have enough information to really understand, but it seems like they didn't incorporate, or understand, all of the testimony, at the time.

I also think it wasn't "FBI", but outsiders that created the DZ.
They may not have had all the information.

Yes! and it has to be NWA Soderlind group. Who else
would it be? WHO HAS THE VESTED INTEREST AND IS
FEEDING INFO TO THE FBI? - NWA!

This is a corporate matter just as I have said. The FBI
is being directed by NWA, maybe with a little input from
McChord.

But it is NWA wagging all tails, nbot the FBI, not McChord. The FBI and LE are totally reliant on NWA for everything. Thats trhe chain of command dictated by
WHO has the flight info! The probably were many
phone conversations and some with H, all from NWA.

I will say it again: the one source we have nothing zero zip from is ..... NWA! The gaps in info are with NWA.
H probably doesnt know and never knew all of the
discussions and decision making that got passed to
the FBI from .... NWA. Everyone including the FBI
was dependent on who? ... NWA. That is where the missing links are ... at NWA ... and they will never
talk. Why should they! This is a corporate matter.
H doesnt even have all the answers ... H was in
Portland. NWA was at Minneapolis.

Very important insight, G. I like it.

I thought of yuou when I wrote it, actually.
I think its 80% true.
I have wondered if someone at the FBI looks at the
Cooper case and thinks: hmmmm nice phd thesis
in organisational crime investigation management,
there. I say this under the assumption modern
investigative organisational methods have
improved! And some guy at the FBI is reading
this thinking ... "what a throwback!'.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

This was a man with a past and no future - facing the biggest battle of his life - and without a job and medical assistance. He had spent 17 yrs of his life in prison - he didn’t know any other kind of life. When he got on that plane I believe - he expected to be apprehended on the ground and spend his final yrs in prison with medical assistance. When the money was delivered he was “child like” - I think when that plane lifted off it hit him - "Oh hell what did I get myself into". There was no choice except to jump -“Hell, if I die at least it will be quick” and if he lived he expected to be caught and die in prison. Yes, he was sad - because he was facing prison and death. There is a part of me that thinks he never planned to jump.

Jo, your logic here is flawed.

If he planned on getting caught and spending his life in prison with free medical care then jumping makes no sense at all. In fact, the hi-jacker simply would have turned himself in at the first opportunity.

HE'S HOOKED! HE'S POSTING!

Just assured my place as the first to be tossed).

[georger 197]

Quote

snowmman,

A small correction here:

Quote

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Loss of the Mode C transponder does not mean the “blip” was lost. It just means the blip has no ID associated with it and the controller isn’t sure of the aircraft’s altitude. (Based on experience from 1991 – 1998 [your mileage may vary]).

Many times when on a flight plan (which I seldom do since I am VFR only) or entering a “Mode C Veil,” I have had a controlled ask that I; “Ident and say altitude,” meaning either I was in a group of other aircraft, (all squawking VFR) or if on a flight plan he just wanted to make sure he had me ID’ed and the Mode C Transponder was returning the correct altitude. This is not unusual. There are “on aircraft” issues that will cause the Mode C Xponder to report the wrong altitude (like a clogged reference port on the pitot-static system.

Also, remember 305 was squawking 3100. In 1971 this was a suggestion from some “international agency” and was probably left up to the individual airline policy. The 7500 “Hijack” code was made part of the FARs sometime later. I looked it up and discussed it with 377 but I don’t remember when. Maybe 377 remembers. Squawking 3100 may have made the ATC a little on edge and wanting to make sure he was "on top of it."

Sluggo_Monster [Very sleepy after driving through a blizzard, but now warm and comfy in a nice motel in Farmington, NM)

Two silly questions:

do you know anyone (old in management) at NWA?

................................... at Continental ?

what do think about a hypothetical path from the Lake Merwin point (using the NWA map) to
near Troutdale ? Do you see any inherent
contradictions with what's in the Transcripts?

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

snowmman,

A small correction here:

Quote

305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar).

Loss of the Mode C transponder does not mean the “blip” was lost. It just means the blip has no ID associated with it and the controller isn’t sure of the aircraft’s altitude. (Based on experience from 1991 – 1998 [your mileage may vary]).



Ah okay.

It doesn't matter anyhow. The transponder is lost at 8:54 PST in the transcript. So that was well after the interesting time for Cooper. (edit) as a sanity check: at 200 MPH, they would have gone about another 87 Miles in 26 minutes. So say 190 mile range for the radar, roughly. (edit) just remembered they didn't go in a perfectly straight radial from Seattle, so max radar range was probably less than 190 miles.

I'm assuming the earlier ident requests, and the transponder lost message at 8:54, meant the radar operator had transponder up to 8:54, so minimally, had radar blip till 8:54, from Seattle ARTCC.

Now: if the flight map radar data was from McChord, I'm assuming it was at least as good as Seattle ARTCC, otherwise they would have used Seattle ARTCC. Unless Seattle ARTCC didn't have recording capability or something like that.

Is it reasonable to assume all military involvement
was being coordinated using McChord data?

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

funny where they read them (this thread was last year, unrelated to DBC)

note the last poster agrees with me, :)

from http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=78108.0
--------------------------------------------------
MAJOR Dan Cooper Comics
« on: July 17, 2008, 14:41:31 »

Does anybody remember reading these comics about Major Dan Cooper of Canada's Finest. From what I know and can remember, they were in French and only published in Europe by a Belgian writer.

I used to read these in Lahr at the Downtown Salvation Army when I was a kid.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a kiosk at an airshow i went to in Holland that was selling them. I used to read them as a kid.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
After all these years, I still have my (modest) collection. # 22 to 40 except #34. And yes Mr. Albert Weinberg is Belgian. I do recall seeing some Dan Cooper here in Quebec City many, many years ago. But they were all albums I already had....thanks to Lahr Canex... remember when Canex was actually a place worthy to go :P.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
when you bought something at the CANEX Lahr Book Store (Caserne ) they would stamp it with a Black Star indicating you had paid for it.

I found some Archie Comics at my parents place last year and they were in an actual rotation box! They had the Black Star from Lahr.

Does anybody remember the Salvation Army Canteen downtown Lahr?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For all of you, fan of this Canadian pilot who pilot everything from a glider to the space shuttel ;)...yes, you can find them in Québec. Surely not in all the libraries but if you try a bit, you will find them... :P

--------------------------
we need more people like Major Cooper!

------------------------------------

[snowmman 3]

Bach said:
"Is it reasonable to assume all military involvement
was being coordinated using McChord data?"

Yeah, I guess so.
Two F-106's were sent up to intercept. That was the standard intercept method. They would be directed by SAGE. That's why we got into talking about SAGE. SAGE was at McChord.

Now maybe the SAGE data wasn't used, and it was more typical radar at McChord. If Seattle ARTCC could go 180miles, then McChord could too.

SAGE got feeds from multiple radar locations. So it could have been more precise. Mt. Hebo was one well known location that fed SAGE? (near Hebo, OR), only 70 miles or so from Portland.

Was Mt Hebo feeding data that night? don't know.

[snowmman 3]

from

http://www.coldwar.org/text_files/ColdwartimesMay2006.pdf
(see nice 1966 photo attached, also)

By the mid-60s, when SAGE was at its peak capability, there were over 100 such radar stations. Operating and maintaining these SAGE radar stations, Direction Centers, and Combat Centers were thousand of Air Force officers, non-commissioned officers, airmen, and civilians.

Mostly without recognition, but with integrity, service before self, and skill, they labored throughout the Cold War at largely isolated and/or mountainous locations. One such radar station was at Mount Hebo Air Force Station (AFS) in Oregon. It was operated and maintained by the 689th Radar Squadron, 25th Air Division, Air Defense Command, and USAF.

Mount Hebo AFS was operational from the 1956 to 1980. The picture shows Mount Hebo AFS in 1966. This location was chosen not for it’s view, but for its’ excellent radar coverage of an area almost 400 miles in diameter (ed. 200 miles radius). This area included the Pacific Ocean, the western coast of Oregon and Washington, and the entrance to the Columbia River. The radar equipment was located at about 3150 feet above sea level. The scenery was spectacular.

It included the Pacific Ocean, and the mountains from Mount Rainer near Seattle, WA to the Three Sisters in OR, a distance of almost 300 miles from north to south. Portland, OR and Mount Hood were to the east. North of Mount Hood was Washington’s Mount St. Helens.

About 20 miles north of Mount Hebo was the town of Tillamook, OR and the nearby former WWII blimp base at Naval Air Station (NAS) Tillamook. The large radome shown protected the AN/FPS-24 search radar made by GE for the Air Force. This radome was really big, almost 160 feet in diameter and over 100 feet tall. Perched on top of the 85-foot tall FPS-24 building, this radome could be seen from 50 miles out in the Pacific Ocean. The smaller radome protected the AN/FPS-90 height finder radar. Another height finder radar, the AN/FPS-26A, was located behind the FPS-24 building.

[377 20]

Quote

HE'S HOOKED! HE'S POSTING!

Just assured my place as the first to be tossed).

Was I the only one who noticed Quade's remarkable persuasive powers over Jo? When we attack Jo's logic she fights back hard. Quade obtained a remarkable result: Jo agreed that her logic was flawed.

Orange and I have been trying all year to do what Quade did in one cameo appearance.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

Bach said:
"Is it reasonable to assume all military involvement
was being coordinated using McChord data?"

Yeah, I guess so.
Two F-106's were sent up to intercept. That was the standard intercept method. They would be directed by SAGE. That's why we got into talking about SAGE. SAGE was at McChord.

Now maybe the SAGE data wasn't used, and it was more typical radar at McChord. If Seattle ARTCC could go 180miles, then McChord could too.

SAGE got feeds from multiple radar locations. So it could have been more precise. Mt. Hebo was one well known location that fed SAGE? (near Hebo, OR), only 70 miles or so from Portland.

Was Mt Hebo feeding data that night? don't know.

well my free association was: maybe McChord data
did not go into the making any map. Corporations
are kind of funny that way. Each to his own. Each
likes to think they can do it alone. So nobody
shares with anybody. Net result: NWA makes maps
used by the FBI and miltary stays silent, does
nothing even though they have data and could have
made or helped make a map.

Obviously if planes are being scrambled by the
military they have to know where the target is.

Is there a military map somewhere that never saw the light of day?

Can we make anything out of this situation which
helps make a new map?"

[377 20]

I worked for Hughes, the company that made the SAGE interface gear on the F 106, called the MA1 fire control system. SAGE's computers could actually issue autopilot commands to airborne F 106s and steer them to an intercept target. When it was up, it worked well, but reliability was a problem.

The USAF likely had very good info on the NWA 727's flight path,

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I worked for Hughes, the company that made the SAGE interface gear on the F 106, called the MA1 fire control system. SAGE's computers could actually issue autopilot commands to airborne F 106s and steer them to an intercept target. When it was up, it worked well, but reliability was a problem.

The USAF likely had very good info on the NWA 727's flight path,

377

from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGEv7hlptRY

"The total engineering effort for SAGE was immense. Total project cost remains unknown, but estimates place it between 8 and 12 billion 1964 dollars, more than the Manhattan Project that developed the nuclear bomb SAGE defended against."

F-106's could (and did) carry nuclear tipped missles (1.5kton)

[snowmman 3]

georger said "Can we make anything out of this situation which
helps make a new map?""

There was a Captain's name (redacted) on the thing from Ckret, who provided the USAF McChord data.

If we had that name, we could find out what unit he was in, and maybe find out more about the data.

I notice in reviewing it, they they didn't use pilot interviews for the jump time prediction. I think I mentioned this before.

says "Probable jump time (0411 GMT) from an analysis of the recorded communication of the flight relative to the cabin pressure fluctuation"

So it sounds like all they (NWA) used was the transcripts for the jump time. No interviews with Rat.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I knew I shoudn't have trusted Orange1.
I knew 377 was wrong when he said flying the 727 to Africa with gold bars was a good idea.

They found the stash already. (Mar. 9, 2009)

uh...ok...let's see. The story will be that people find buried money in Africa, like R1.5 Million, all the time. This is nothing special. As long as no one panics, everything will be cool.

It's possible Himmelsbach is on the case, because there are some facts being reported (see bold).

Ekhuruleni is a municipality in South Africa.
That has nothing to do with anything you've read in this forum.

http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=955324

A construction worker today found a cooler box, which he initially thought was a bomb, but actually contained R1.5 million in cash.

"The construction worker intended digging a six-metre hole for a drainage system in Edenvale when he found a medium-sized cooler box buried deep down," said Ekhuruleni Metro Police spokesman Kobeli G Mokheseng.

He said the worker thought it was a bomb and alerted police.

"Officers rushed to the 10th Avenue building and opened the blue and white container that seemed to be hidden underground for a long time.

"When the container was opened we found R50 and R20 notes to an estimated value of R1.5 million."

He did not want to say where the money was taken to, so that the case was not jeopardised.

No arrests were made. Investigations are continuing.

------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20090310044831487C700774

A construction worker has unearthed more than R1-million stashed away in a cooler box in Edenvale.

Rodgers Nkuna, 25, was digging up a six-metre trench for the drainage system near a building in 10th Avenue when he came across a mud-spattered blue and white cooler box at about 10am on Monday.

"For a moment he thought it was a bomb, before he notified the metro police, who came and opened the container, which seems to have been hidden underground for a long time," said Ekurhuleni metro police spokesperson Kobeli Mokheseng.

"It contained R50 and R20 notes worth an estimated R1.5-million," he said.

Mokheseng pointed out that the ground where the cooler box was found was still wet from recent rains.

The notes were damaged from the wet ground and covered in mud.

"The cooler box could have been there for a very long time. We don't know how it could have landed down there," he added.

"Maybe whoever buried it there was hoping to find it after they had served time in jail, or they could be dead.

"The Edenvale police are investigating the origin of the money."

lol, yes we were all very amused when the story came out! no gold bars though!

Ekurhuleni btw is where most visitors land for the first time, it is where the airport for Johannesburg is located.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

I was thinking about how often people talk about hypothermia and Cooper's core body temperature, and was wondering "Why?"

We know he had a raincoat, but that's ignored? (some even had zippered-in liners, but assume Cooper's didn't)

Do people think raincoats of that era didn't work?

(I believe the DSA 100-75 means 1975, and hte DSA-71 means 1971)

I've attached some pictures of Vietnam-era army-issued raincoats, just as an indication of the kind of technology used in raincoats of that era.

These raincoats weren't impermeable. They had a "Quarpel" coating:

"In 1959, a breakthrough in rainwear treatments by technologists at the Quartermaster Research and Development Laboratories (now U.S. Army Natick Laboratories), made a satisfactory and attractive military raincoat possible at last. Chemists at these Laboratories combined two commercially available water repellents to synergistically produce a highly durable water-repellent and oil-resistant treatment for textiles. This treatment, named "Quarpel" as a Quartermaster-developed repellent, freed Army clothing designers from the necessity of using coated fabrics for rainwear.

The Quarpel treatment could withstand up to 15 launderings without re-treatment and still retain greater water repellency than the best vapor permeable raincoats then on the market. Fabrics treated with the compound remained vapor permeable and free from uncomfortable moisture condensation

The Quartermaster Corps had applied Quarpel to field and combat clothing and the results confirmed their hopes that the treatment could provide a rain garment which was efficiently water-repellent, washable and comfortable. Accordingly, in 1964 the Army adopted a semidress raincoat utilizing the Quarpel treatment to replace the coated fabric taupe raincoat for all male personnel.

The new raincoat was a lighter but harmonizing shade of green for wear with the Army Green uniform and was made of a single layer of 5 ounce, cotton polyester fabric with an inside shoulder yoke. Because of its washability and better drape, the new raincoat provided an improved appearance and promised a longer service life than the current standard."

[BruceSmith 3]

This is a corporate matter just as I have said. The FBI
is being directed by NWA, maybe with a little input from
McChord.

But it is NWA wagging all tails, not the FBI, not McChord. The FBI and LE are totally reliant on NWA for everything. That's the chain of command dictated by
WHO has the flight info! The probably were many
phone conversations and some with H, all from NWA.

I will say it again: the one source we have nothing zero zip from is ..... NWA! The gaps in info are with NWA.
H probably doesnt know and never knew all of the
discussions and decision making that got passed to
the FBI from .... NWA. Everyone including the FBI
was dependent on who? ... NWA. That is where the missing links are ... at NWA ... and they will never
talk. Why should they! This is a corporate matter.
H doesnt even have all the answers ... H was in
Portland. NWA was at Minneapolis.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Was I the only one who noticed Quade's remarkable persuasive powers over Jo? When we attack Jo's logic she fights back hard. Quade obtained a remarkable result: Jo agreed that her logic was flawed.

Orange and I have been trying all year to do what Quade did in one cameo appearance.

377

Persuasion had nothing to do with.
Yesterday the 27th of March would have been Duane's and my anniversary - All I was doing was TRYING to think what was going thru Duane's mind when he did the Hijacking in 1971.

Note that Quade did not say the whole synopsis was illogical, but part of it was. When I read what I had written I agreed that part was not logical.

PS - Dan Cooper died 14 yrs ago today - March 28th 1995.

It has been said he was a "Bastard and evil man" according to one ex-wife. Another wife said "He was the love of my life - that Johnny he was something else".

As for me and what I remember:
I didn't know the man I spent 17 yrs with - more yrs than he spent with his mother. Why couldn't he have left the past in the past? His sister begged me to leave the past in the past when I told her what he said. If she had no knowledge of the crime - why did she say this? This was BEFORE the FBI investigated and before I learned the extent of his criminal back-ground.

I will never know all of the truths about this man - common criminal, bastard, liar, womanizer, 6 time felon, troubled child-hood, rebellious young man...I didn't know that person. He definitely had flaws that I didn't like, but he turned out to be a decent man, a hard worker and an above average husband.

The man I knew was child like in his approach to special holidays and had this strange appreciation of life and the simple things and small treasures. He was a very giving and loving person to all that knew him. He was a man with a past - he lived in the present. He was a man who was constantly looking over his shoulder fearfull the past would catch-up to him.

He was a good singer with a voice that didn't need a microphone. He told me to keep music in my life and his last words "I love you".

I love you too Dan Cooper whoever the hell you were and inspite of whatever you did - you made restitution for your sins in the only way you knew how...but, Why did you have to tell me?
Why as your sister said - Why couldn't you have just left the past in the past?

No Need to reply or make remarks about this post. It is just something I had to say and I am tired.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber