georger 197
snowmman 3
Okay from http://nas-architecture.faa.gov/nas/location/location_data.cfm?fid=20
I think this might be a list of current long range radar used by ZSE ARTCC..this seems to align with what dy8coke was saying:
Note the local tracon and aiport stuff isn't included, just long range stuff.
(edit) some are shared with other ARTCC's?
LAKESIDE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QLS] Northwest Mountain Region; Flathead County; Lakeside, Montana. ARSR-4. Shared with Salt Lake City ZLC?
KLAMATH FALLS LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [LMT] Northwest Mountain Region; Klamath County; Klamath Falls, Oregon. Shared with Oakland ZOA?
FOSSIL LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QVN] Northwest Mountain Region; Wheeler County; Fossil, Oregon. Shared with Salt Lake City, ZLC?
MAKAH-NEAH BAY LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QKW] Northwest Mountain Region; Clallam County; Neah Bay, Washington
MICA PEAK-SPOKANE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QMI] Northwest Mountain Region; Spokane County; Spokane, Washington. Shared with Salt Lake City ZLC?
PENDLETON WxRR (SURVEILLANCE) [PDT] Northwest Mountain Region; UMATILLA County; PENDLETON, Oregon
RAINBOW RIDGE-RIO DELL LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QZZ] Western Pacific Region; Humboldt County; Rio Dell, California. Shared with Oakland ZOA?
SALEM LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [SLE] Northwest Mountain Region; Polk County; Salem, Oregon
SEATTLE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [SEA] Northwest Mountain Region; King County; Seattle, Washington (listed as ARSR-1E still, so maybe it's the Fort Lawton site?)
also, just noticed there are 26 current facilities considered ARTCC, not 21 like I said before. (they include Toronto, Vancouver, Guam, Honolulu, San Juan CERAP).
I think this might be a list of current long range radar used by ZSE ARTCC..this seems to align with what dy8coke was saying:
Note the local tracon and aiport stuff isn't included, just long range stuff.
(edit) some are shared with other ARTCC's?
LAKESIDE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QLS] Northwest Mountain Region; Flathead County; Lakeside, Montana. ARSR-4. Shared with Salt Lake City ZLC?
KLAMATH FALLS LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [LMT] Northwest Mountain Region; Klamath County; Klamath Falls, Oregon. Shared with Oakland ZOA?
FOSSIL LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QVN] Northwest Mountain Region; Wheeler County; Fossil, Oregon. Shared with Salt Lake City, ZLC?
MAKAH-NEAH BAY LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QKW] Northwest Mountain Region; Clallam County; Neah Bay, Washington
MICA PEAK-SPOKANE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QMI] Northwest Mountain Region; Spokane County; Spokane, Washington. Shared with Salt Lake City ZLC?
PENDLETON WxRR (SURVEILLANCE) [PDT] Northwest Mountain Region; UMATILLA County; PENDLETON, Oregon
RAINBOW RIDGE-RIO DELL LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QZZ] Western Pacific Region; Humboldt County; Rio Dell, California. Shared with Oakland ZOA?
SALEM LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [SLE] Northwest Mountain Region; Polk County; Salem, Oregon
SEATTLE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [SEA] Northwest Mountain Region; King County; Seattle, Washington (listed as ARSR-1E still, so maybe it's the Fort Lawton site?)
also, just noticed there are 26 current facilities considered ARTCC, not 21 like I said before. (they include Toronto, Vancouver, Guam, Honolulu, San Juan CERAP).
snowmman 3
Nasa is doing this plane that uses SAR for ultra-precise flight path, and they have an agreement to not come within 10 miles of the FAA long range radar sites, because the frequency they use is similar.
377 might like looking at that: http://uavsar.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html
It's being designed to operate on an UAV, but initially uses a Gulfstream. 10 meter diameter precision on the flight path.
They have a map of all FAA long range radar sites here, and a KML file is downloadable.
http://uavsar.jpl.nasa.gov/fieldsites/faamap.htm
basically confirms what I posted for ZSE, but shows all locations on a map, nicely. (we launch the UAVs tonight!)
(edit) I think my list for ZSE above was more complete, as this map is missing the ARSR-1E in Seattle.
377 might like looking at that: http://uavsar.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html
It's being designed to operate on an UAV, but initially uses a Gulfstream. 10 meter diameter precision on the flight path.
They have a map of all FAA long range radar sites here, and a KML file is downloadable.
http://uavsar.jpl.nasa.gov/fieldsites/faamap.htm
basically confirms what I posted for ZSE, but shows all locations on a map, nicely. (we launch the UAVs tonight!)
(edit) I think my list for ZSE above was more complete, as this map is missing the ARSR-1E in Seattle.
377 21
Snow,
You really find great radar info. Keep it coming.
There is a new approach to inexpensive marine radar that I think will interest you and G. It uses an very linear FM chirp in the transmitted signal and apparently looks at the frequency of the echo to determine distance. The radiated power is only 100 milliwatts!!! You can stand in in front of the radar antenna, something you'd never want to do with the standard 4+ KW X band radars that this unit will compete with.
Check out the video, the resolution in the radar echo
displayed are pretty amazing.
http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en/Products/Leisure/Broadband-Radar/Broadband-Radar/
The synthetic aperture radar (SAR) you referred to produces amazing pictures, almost like photos. It uses aircraft displacement and various timing and phasing tricks to create the equivalent of a huge airborne radar antenna thus giving very high spatial resolution.
Quade should challenge a few other of Jo's assumptions and conclusions. She does seem to listen to him. Nobody is going to convince her that Duane had nothing to do with NORJACK, but Quade might use Occam's razor to slice off some of the far out fringe stuff.
How can people say that the Cooper mystery will never be solved? All it takes is finding remains and an unopened rig, or some hot twenties in a safe deposit box or anything like that. The case is very solvable, but it takes a lucky break. Methodical plodding isn't likely to do it.
377 on the 377th page of this forum.
You really find great radar info. Keep it coming.
There is a new approach to inexpensive marine radar that I think will interest you and G. It uses an very linear FM chirp in the transmitted signal and apparently looks at the frequency of the echo to determine distance. The radiated power is only 100 milliwatts!!! You can stand in in front of the radar antenna, something you'd never want to do with the standard 4+ KW X band radars that this unit will compete with.
Check out the video, the resolution in the radar echo
displayed are pretty amazing.
http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en/Products/Leisure/Broadband-Radar/Broadband-Radar/
The synthetic aperture radar (SAR) you referred to produces amazing pictures, almost like photos. It uses aircraft displacement and various timing and phasing tricks to create the equivalent of a huge airborne radar antenna thus giving very high spatial resolution.
Quade should challenge a few other of Jo's assumptions and conclusions. She does seem to listen to him. Nobody is going to convince her that Duane had nothing to do with NORJACK, but Quade might use Occam's razor to slice off some of the far out fringe stuff.
How can people say that the Cooper mystery will never be solved? All it takes is finding remains and an unopened rig, or some hot twenties in a safe deposit box or anything like that. The case is very solvable, but it takes a lucky break. Methodical plodding isn't likely to do it.
377 on the 377th page of this forum.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Okay, there's all this anecdotal info about how they're confident Cooper jumped before the Columbia. I think that's based on Rataczak testimony, if I remember Ckret's posts correctly.
But in the same breath, we believe Rataczak said something odd..i.e. that the bump was before the lights of Portland. (not Vancouver).
And it appears in 1980, Rataczak is a little wrong about how far east he thought the plane was, relative to V23, if we believe the 1980 meeting with Himmelsbach. (I suspect Rataczak just made an offhand comment, and Himmelsbach drummed it up into a big story like he does..i.e. Mr Blowing Like Billly Hell.
So Rataczak is this mixture of good and bad testimony. How to resolve?
The post from Ckret is
"They do have conversation, however, Radazcak said he could see the northern suburbs of Portland when this occurred. He also said it occurred 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05 PM."
So I was thinking "What if Rataczak saw the Williamette, and thought it was the Columbia? That would make sense for the testimony. And it would make sense for Cooper jumping and landing in the Columbia"
Luckily the new GE 5 with it's historical imagery has some b/w imagery around Portland from Jul 5 1970.
I've attached it. Pretty cool. The Williamette has all those bridges crossing it. In fact when I was looking, I was confused for a bit, before I remembered the center of Portland is not next to the Columbia, it's next to the Williamette.
So if Cooper jumped right at the Columbia, I think all of Rataczak's testimony can be resolved with other data. Remember it was overcast/broken clouds. (I've read two layers of clouds, but unclear)
The imagery doesn't extend to Vancouver.
(attached)
Green is V23. Blue is the flight path. We don't have flight path tick marks past 20:18 (really 20:17)
But in the same breath, we believe Rataczak said something odd..i.e. that the bump was before the lights of Portland. (not Vancouver).
And it appears in 1980, Rataczak is a little wrong about how far east he thought the plane was, relative to V23, if we believe the 1980 meeting with Himmelsbach. (I suspect Rataczak just made an offhand comment, and Himmelsbach drummed it up into a big story like he does..i.e. Mr Blowing Like Billly Hell.
So Rataczak is this mixture of good and bad testimony. How to resolve?
The post from Ckret is
"They do have conversation, however, Radazcak said he could see the northern suburbs of Portland when this occurred. He also said it occurred 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05 PM."
So I was thinking "What if Rataczak saw the Williamette, and thought it was the Columbia? That would make sense for the testimony. And it would make sense for Cooper jumping and landing in the Columbia"
Luckily the new GE 5 with it's historical imagery has some b/w imagery around Portland from Jul 5 1970.
I've attached it. Pretty cool. The Williamette has all those bridges crossing it. In fact when I was looking, I was confused for a bit, before I remembered the center of Portland is not next to the Columbia, it's next to the Williamette.
So if Cooper jumped right at the Columbia, I think all of Rataczak's testimony can be resolved with other data. Remember it was overcast/broken clouds. (I've read two layers of clouds, but unclear)
The imagery doesn't extend to Vancouver.
(attached)
Green is V23. Blue is the flight path. We don't have flight path tick marks past 20:18 (really 20:17)
snowmman 3
I had pushed Ckret hard before on why they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant..
But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good.
Ckret said:
For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.
His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant..
But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good.
Ckret said:
For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.
Orange1 0
Quote377 on the 377th page of this forum.
i bet that's a first ...... BEER!!!!!!!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
1969912 0
QuoteQuote377 on the 377th page of this forum.
i bet that's a first ...... BEER!!!!!!!
Only 1,969,535 pages to go for me
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
377 21
Quote
I had pushed Ckret hard before on why they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant..
But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good.
Ckret said:
For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.
Hmmmm Snow, that's not a bad theory. Not bad at all. It never ceases to amaze me how you parse new stuff out of old info that to me, has been thoroughly analyzed and isn't worth revisiting.
I have viewed aerial landscapes at night and made errors based on seeing what I expected to see rather than what is actually there. You initially make the scene fit your expectation and ignore the inconsistent stuff. In a short time as a window gazing passenger, you realize your error, but the NWA crew was very busy with other stuff and probably wasn't spending a lot of time looking at the ground landmarks.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuote
I had pushed Ckret hard before on why they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant..
But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good.
Ckret said:
For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.
Hmmmm Snow, that's not a bad theory. Not bad at all. It never ceases to amaze me how you parse new stuff out of old info that to me, has been thoroughly analyzed and isn't worth revisiting.
I have viewed aerial landscapes at night and made errors based on seeing what I expected to see rather than what is actually there. You initially make the scene fit your expectation and ignore the inconsistent stuff. In a short time as a window gazing passenger, you realize your error, but the NWA crew was very busy with other stuff and probably wasn't spending a lot of time looking at the ground landmarks.
377
If you go back and look at when I was beating on Larry about how they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia, it was weird. He provided very little information..Nothing more than the one liner I posted above. Yet he was confident Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
This mirrors the absolute fact Jerry believes he got from Himmelsbach, although Jerry didn't repeat whatever Himmelsbach said. (I think Himmelsbach is good at sounding factual, when he's just spouting his personal theories/stories, so it's easy for listeners to be swayed, and then when they get home, they can't remember exactly why they were convinced...)
So: it got me thinking..why would Larry be so dogmatic about anything? Why would he care?
I think Larry tends to get dogmatic when the evidence is weak. I don't know why. He did the same thing when I pushed back on the age thing.
So: We need the "Guaranteed To Have Jumped Before The Columbia" evidence that's being held secretively. (note that even if it's true: how soon minimally before the Columbia? 30 seconds? 1 minute? What's the theory/data/interview say and why is it correct?)
What's weird is that Larry was perfectly happy to say the Jump Point was incorrectly calculated at 8:11. We had data/report that showed how that error occurred.
But we don't have data that would help us on the rest. I guess it's the Rataczak interview. Don't know if there's anything else.
(edit) Things to think about: Vancouver was much smaller then. Both rivers have similar widths. Both rivers have bridges over them. They're both going roughly east-west when 305 crosses them. And Rataczak said "Portland". And Rataczak was not from the Northwest.
dy8coke 0
Is there any indication of how much turbulence 305 encounterd? I was wondering if turbulence would cause the airstairs to bounce thus causing the pressure bump. Also, how big is the cabin altitude indicator on the flight engineers panel. Would the FE always be looking at the gage and would he notice any other jumps of the cabin pressure that would not noticy be felt by the ears?
If not then cooper could be almost anywhere.
If not then cooper could be almost anywhere.
georger 197
Quote
I had pushed Ckret hard before on why they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant..
But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good.
Ckret said:
For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.
True. The word Felt masks all the hard data. I find
that very strange. Maddening frankly. If they "felt"
Cooper had jumped then why didn't they "feel" to
take some hard bearings? It almost sounds as if
nobody cared.
I can only go back to what 'I think' pilots would.
The bump occurs and Scott, Rat, and Anderson
recognmise that as 'maybe just jumped'. So failing
to take hard notes (we dont know they didnt!),
Rat looks around because he's flying the airplane,
Scott in on the radio, and Rat sees (off in the distance out his right front window?) they are approaching Portland and the Columbia. He cant
see the Columbia or the Willamette but he can see the the light Portland coming up. The question is, how far off?
Rat never mentions Vancouver at all! Rat doesnt say: "Vancouver and Portland". He just says Portland.
The fact he names only Portland may mean they were close and Portland was literally coming up
ahead and the most prominent single object ahead
or to directly to the right. He never mentions Vancouver being in his field of view so that
potentially gives us a clue about distance.
If they had been 20 miles away it would have been both, the lights of Portland-Vancouver. So they are closer than say 20 miles and whatever Rat's angle with respect to Portland, its either directly ahead or out his right window and they are close enough Rat doesnt bother to include Vancouver in his statement.
To me, those elements define "felt".
I have to assume they knew where they were and
where the Columbia and Willamette were not because they were looking at these objects specifically but because they knew where these rivers
fit in the general perspective of "Portland only"
ahead or immediately to Rat's right-front ... coming
up on Portland.
Dont forget (Rat knew this). The Columbia is before Portland. If they havent crossed the Columbia then
they arent "in" or "over" Portland yet. And this defines exactly what Rat said ... "could see the suburbs of Portland ahead" ?
georger 197
QuoteQuote
I had pushed Ckret hard before on why they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant..
But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good.
Ckret said:
For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.
Hmmmm Snow, that's not a bad theory. Not bad at all. It never ceases to amaze me how you parse new stuff out of old info that to me, has been thoroughly analyzed and isn't worth revisiting.
I have viewed aerial landscapes at night and made errors based on seeing what I expected to see rather than what is actually there. You initially make the scene fit your expectation and ignore the inconsistent stuff. In a short time as a window gazing passenger, you realize your error, but the NWA crew was very busy with other stuff and probably wasn't spending a lot of time looking at the ground landmarks.
377
I think a lot of this depends on how well Rat and Scott and Anderson knew the area, Tina too. How
many times had they flown V23 before coming south?
When Rat says "can SEE the suburbs of Portland ahead" thats very specific to me. Likewise, had not
crossed the Columbia yet". But Vancouver is not
mentioned so they were close enough for it not to
be mentioned OR they were headed at Portland with
Vancouver not in their thoughts.
georger 197
377
If you go back and look at when I was beating on Larry about how they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia, it was weird. He provided very little information..Nothing more than the one liner I posted above. Yet he was confident Cooper jumped before the Columbia.
This mirrors the absolute fact Jerry believes he got from Himmelsbach, although Jerry didn't repeat whatever Himmelsbach said. (I think Himmelsbach is good at sounding factual, when he's just spouting his personal theories/stories, so it's easy for listeners to be swayed, and then when they get home, they can't remember exactly why they were convinced...)
So: it got me thinking..why would Larry be so dogmatic about anything? Why would he care?
I think Larry tends to get dogmatic when the evidence is weak. I don't know why. He did the same thing when I pushed back on the age thing.
So: We need the "Guaranteed To Have Jumped Before The Columbia" evidence that's being held secretively. (note that even if it's true: how soon minimally before the Columbia? 30 seconds? 1 minute? What's the theory/data/interview say and why is it correct?)
What's weird is that Larry was perfectly happy to say the Jump Point was incorrectly calculated at 8:11. We had data/report that showed how that error occurred.
But we don't have data that would help us on the rest. I guess it's the Rataczak interview. Don't know if there's anything else.
(edit) Things to think about: Vancouver was much smaller then. Both rivers have similar widths. Both rivers have bridges over them. They're both going roughly east-west when 305 crosses them. And Rataczak said "Portland". And Rataczak was not from the Northwest.
My guess is, Larry already knew 'everything' we have come up with, except for when you came up with the
comic book. I have a strong suspicion that is the case, or some close relative of that.
georger 197
QuoteIs there any indication of how much turbulence 305 encounterd? I was wondering if turbulence would cause the airstairs to bounce thus causing the pressure bump. Also, how big is the cabin altitude indicator on the flight engineers panel. Would the FE always be looking at the gage and would he notice any other jumps of the cabin pressure that would not noticy be felt by the ears?
If not then cooper could be almost anywhere.
My impression is they felt it in their ears suddenly
then looked at nstruments -
snowmman 3
Quote
When Rat says "can SEE the suburbs of Portland ahead" thats very specific to me. Likewise, had not
crossed the Columbia yet". But Vancouver is not
mentioned so they were close enough for it not to
be mentioned OR they were headed at Portland with
Vancouver not in their thoughts.
Right. Basically we haven't got a clue. We're trying to guess based on Rataczak testimony we don't have (because there is no other data to bound the jump point), and all we have is a couple of short sentences from Ckret. It is unclear whether Ckret had more, or even if Ckret might have editorialized.
Note: The comment about the Columbia, as far as Ckret told us, was "felt", not seen.
Ckret never described what "felt" was based on. Instruments? Time? Lights of Portland? Unclear.
However, there is some other good data we could muse on.
Whoever created the flight path, saw fit to put radar ticks after the Columbia. Why? Could also ask why the first radar tick was selected to be 19:54 (it's not at Seattle).
Looking at Sluggo's annotated flight path, there are actually more radar ticks that he's not labelled, past the Columbia.
I see 20:19, 20:20, 20:21 at least to 20:25
Here's another thing to muse on:
The 3 mystery ticks west of the flight path, are on the other side of the Columbia.
snowmman 3
Georger said:
"My guess is, Larry already knew 'everything' we have come up with, except for when you came up with the comic book. I have a strong suspicion that is the case, or some close relative of that. "
Yes, It was odd.
On the one hand, Larry really did seem to be acting like some stuff was new to him.
On the other hand, he acted like he already had his mind made up.
For instance, I thought he might have been just playing along with SafecrackingPLF's map stuff. But maybe not.
There was a time towards the end, where Larry sounded pissed because he seemed to feel like he was keeping us "entertained" for some reason. And we didn't show enough appreciation for his efforts. As opposed to really wanting any more input.
I wasn't interested in being entertained, so I clearly didn't give any appreciation.
You could write this off though, by saying he had hit the limit for information he could disclose.
But that's obviously not true since you guys have the Clay Report and we don't.
Larry seemed to want to control the discussion. Can see that in the latest FBI videos etc.
Larry seems to think having it be more controlled, will lead to more success than fully uncontrolled. It's a conundrum, because it's not really throwing it open to the public, it's some weird halfway point.
I think that's what created all the stress..in addition to there being obvious flaws in the historical investigation.
I think also there's some history where they don't want Tosaw to be right in any way. (don't know if he is, but there seems to be a bias against Tosaw's thinking).
"My guess is, Larry already knew 'everything' we have come up with, except for when you came up with the comic book. I have a strong suspicion that is the case, or some close relative of that. "
Yes, It was odd.
On the one hand, Larry really did seem to be acting like some stuff was new to him.
On the other hand, he acted like he already had his mind made up.
For instance, I thought he might have been just playing along with SafecrackingPLF's map stuff. But maybe not.
There was a time towards the end, where Larry sounded pissed because he seemed to feel like he was keeping us "entertained" for some reason. And we didn't show enough appreciation for his efforts. As opposed to really wanting any more input.
I wasn't interested in being entertained, so I clearly didn't give any appreciation.
You could write this off though, by saying he had hit the limit for information he could disclose.
But that's obviously not true since you guys have the Clay Report and we don't.
Larry seemed to want to control the discussion. Can see that in the latest FBI videos etc.
Larry seems to think having it be more controlled, will lead to more success than fully uncontrolled. It's a conundrum, because it's not really throwing it open to the public, it's some weird halfway point.
I think that's what created all the stress..in addition to there being obvious flaws in the historical investigation.
I think also there's some history where they don't want Tosaw to be right in any way. (don't know if he is, but there seems to be a bias against Tosaw's thinking).
snowmman 3
georger said:
"True. The word Felt masks all the hard data. I find
that very strange. Maddening frankly. If they "felt"
Cooper had jumped then why didn't they "feel" to
take some hard bearings? It almost sounds as if
nobody cared. "
Yes! Two guys flying a 727, with tons of communication capability, and instrumentation, and we're guessing about the word "felt".
And even about Rataczak 9 years later saying "I think maybe we were over there more"...and people believing that.
Man, one comment from Rataczak, and we could have Cooper jumping outside Reno!
"True. The word Felt masks all the hard data. I find
that very strange. Maddening frankly. If they "felt"
Cooper had jumped then why didn't they "feel" to
take some hard bearings? It almost sounds as if
nobody cared. "
Yes! Two guys flying a 727, with tons of communication capability, and instrumentation, and we're guessing about the word "felt".
And even about Rataczak 9 years later saying "I think maybe we were over there more"...and people believing that.
Man, one comment from Rataczak, and we could have Cooper jumping outside Reno!
snowmman 3
Georger said
"Coming up on Portland."
What do you consider Portland, or it's center? Portland natives talk about "Old Portland" being one center. It's on the Williamette.
It's a very old city. 1851.
Take a look at this 1897 map of Porland. Nothing up by the Columbia! (barely in the map!)
"Coming up on Portland."
What do you consider Portland, or it's center? Portland natives talk about "Old Portland" being one center. It's on the Williamette.
It's a very old city. 1851.
Take a look at this 1897 map of Porland. Nothing up by the Columbia! (barely in the map!)
georger 197
Note: The comment about the Columbia, as far as Ckret told us, was "felt", not seen.
I have been agonizing over thse three ticks for
a long time - ask Sluggo. Remember I asked Sluggo
what they were - he didnt have the faintest idea.
Maybe they certify "this whole map is a guess" ?
QuoteDo you suppose "felt" certifies they were
feeling their way? And tjhat certifies they were off
the regular path, ie. V23?
-----------------------------------------------------
I see 20:19, 20:20, 20:21 at least to 20:25
Here's another thing to muse on:
The 3 mystery ticks west of the flight path, are on the other side of the Columbia.
I have been agonizing over thse three ticks for
a long time - ask Sluggo. Remember I asked Sluggo
what they were - he didnt have the faintest idea.
Maybe they certify "this whole map is a guess" ?
Yesterday the 27th of March would have been Duane's and my anniversary - All I was doing was TRYING to think what was going thru Duane's mind when he did the Hijacking in 1971.
Note that Quade did not say the whole synopsis was illogical, but part of it was. When I read what I had written I agreed that part was not logical.
PS - Dan Cooper died 14 yrs ago today - March 28th 1995.
If it were only true. How simple life would be.
And turns out it is simple, in this case!