DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

ParrotheadVol

I have a question for you, that I'm sure has been covered many time in the forum, but I will ask anyway. At 10,000 feet, how much time did Cooper have to deploy his chute?

Let me get my two cents worth in here. The equation in the post earlier is for vertical motion and does not include horizontal motion. Adding the horizontal motion VASTLY complicates the mathematics. So that is why "rules of thumb" are the easiest way to go.

Basically, the forward horizontal motion for the 225 MPH airliner airspeed at which Cooper jumped/fell off/or was thrown off the stairs, is cancelled out in about 10-15 seconds.

After that, the motion is straight down with respect to the air mass (which will be moving horizontally depending on the wind).

Cooper's speed, both the horizontal and vertical components, depends on his body's orientation with respect to the free stream air velocity vector. Assume that vector is parallel to and opposing Cooper's "fall path" motion.

If Cooper falls the entire distance from the stairs to the ground in a "stable spread skydiving position", he will be doing about 120 MPH when he reaches sea level (Portland is essentially at sea level). Consequently, it will take him about 60 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

If Cooper falls the entire distance head first, he will be doing about 180 MPH when he reaches sea level. That would take about 40 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

But in reality, Cooper will be tumbling and the fall time will likely be somewhere between 40 and 60 seconds to reach the ground.

If anyone feels that Cooper will not be tumbling in a free fall, please advise what reference he is going to be using to stabilize himself in view of the cloud layers, relatively low visibility at altitude, and darkness.

Robert99

[377 20]

Robert99 wrote

Quote

If anyone feels that Cooper will not be tumbling in a free fall, please advise what reference he is going to be using to stabilize himself in view of the cloud layers, relatively low visibility at altitude, and darkness.

Actually you can stabilize in roll and pitch without a horizon reference, but its hard to keep from yawing (turning) without a visual heading reference. I've experimented with closing my eyes and arching hard. I always end up belly to earth after a few seconds, but usually in a slow turn.

If you add a high speed exit and aero asymmetry from an attached money carrier, all stability bets are off.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Robert99

***

I have a question for you, that I'm sure has been covered many time in the forum, but I will ask anyway. At 10,000 feet, how much time did Cooper have to deploy his chute?

Let me get my two cents worth in here. The equation in the post earlier is for vertical motion and does not include horizontal motion. Adding the horizontal motion VASTLY complicates the mathematics. So that is why "rules of thumb" are the easiest way to go.

Basically, the forward horizontal motion for the 225 MPH airliner airspeed at which Cooper jumped/fell off/or was thrown off the stairs, is cancelled out in about 10-15 seconds.

After that, the motion is straight down with respect to the air mass (which will be moving horizontally depending on the wind).

Cooper's speed, both the horizontal and vertical components, depends on his body's orientation with respect to the free stream air velocity vector. Assume that vector is parallel to and opposing Cooper's "fall path" motion.

If Cooper falls the entire distance from the stairs to the ground in a "stable spread skydiving position", he will be doing about 120 MPH when he reaches sea level (Portland is essentially at sea level). Consequently, it will take him about 60 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

If Cooper falls the entire distance head first, he will be doing about 180 MPH when he reaches sea level. That would take about 40 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

But in reality, Cooper will be tumbling and the fall time will likely be somewhere between 40 and 60 seconds to reach the ground.

If anyone feels that Cooper will not be tumbling in a free fall, please advise what reference he is going to be using to stabilize himself in view of the cloud layers, relatively low visibility at altitude, and darkness.

Robert99 vertical component caught by camera

[Robert99 37]

georger

******

I have a question for you, that I'm sure has been covered many time in the forum, but I will ask anyway. At 10,000 feet, how much time did Cooper have to deploy his chute?

Let me get my two cents worth in here. The equation in the post earlier is for vertical motion and does not include horizontal motion. Adding the horizontal motion VASTLY complicates the mathematics. So that is why "rules of thumb" are the easiest way to go.

Basically, the forward horizontal motion for the 225 MPH airliner airspeed at which Cooper jumped/fell off/or was thrown off the stairs, is cancelled out in about 10-15 seconds.

After that, the motion is straight down with respect to the air mass (which will be moving horizontally depending on the wind).

Cooper's speed, both the horizontal and vertical components, depends on his body's orientation with respect to the free stream air velocity vector. Assume that vector is parallel to and opposing Cooper's "fall path" motion.

If Cooper falls the entire distance from the stairs to the ground in a "stable spread skydiving position", he will be doing about 120 MPH when he reaches sea level (Portland is essentially at sea level). Consequently, it will take him about 60 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

If Cooper falls the entire distance head first, he will be doing about 180 MPH when he reaches sea level. That would take about 40 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

But in reality, Cooper will be tumbling and the fall time will likely be somewhere between 40 and 60 seconds to reach the ground.

If anyone feels that Cooper will not be tumbling in a free fall, please advise what reference he is going to be using to stabilize himself in view of the cloud layers, relatively low visibility at altitude, and darkness.

Robert99 vertical component caught by camera

The picture seems to have been made during the FBI drop tests.

And contrary to what the picture seems to indicate, the vertical velocity of the dropped item is quite low since it only separated from the aircraft about a second earlier. The horizontal velocity of the dropped item is still about 160 MPH (about the same speed as the aircraft) at this early point in the drop.

But in about 10 or 15 seconds the horizontal velocity of the dropped item will be zero (in a calm atmosphere) and all the speed will be vertical for the rest of the way down. At this point only the standard gravitational equations apply and the item will continue to accelerate until its aerodynamic drag is equal to its weight.

For your information, I have NEVER seen the horizontal motion of a falling object treated in a physics textbook. They always use the standard gravitational equations and deal only with vertical motion.

Basically, the vertical motion only problems can be solved by hand. Adding horizontal motion, the problem becomes (if I remember correctly) a quadratic nonlinear equation, or system of such equations, that can make good use of a Cray supercomputer.

Robert99

[georger 197]

Robert99

*********

I have a question for you, that I'm sure has been covered many time in the forum, but I will ask anyway. At 10,000 feet, how much time did Cooper have to deploy his chute?

Let me get my two cents worth in here. The equation in the post earlier is for vertical motion and does not include horizontal motion. Adding the horizontal motion VASTLY complicates the mathematics. So that is why "rules of thumb" are the easiest way to go.

Basically, the forward horizontal motion for the 225 MPH airliner airspeed at which Cooper jumped/fell off/or was thrown off the stairs, is cancelled out in about 10-15 seconds.

After that, the motion is straight down with respect to the air mass (which will be moving horizontally depending on the wind).

Cooper's speed, both the horizontal and vertical components, depends on his body's orientation with respect to the free stream air velocity vector. Assume that vector is parallel to and opposing Cooper's "fall path" motion.

If Cooper falls the entire distance from the stairs to the ground in a "stable spread skydiving position", he will be doing about 120 MPH when he reaches sea level (Portland is essentially at sea level). Consequently, it will take him about 60 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

If Cooper falls the entire distance head first, he will be doing about 180 MPH when he reaches sea level. That would take about 40 seconds to reach the ground from the airliner.

But in reality, Cooper will be tumbling and the fall time will likely be somewhere between 40 and 60 seconds to reach the ground.

If anyone feels that Cooper will not be tumbling in a free fall, please advise what reference he is going to be using to stabilize himself in view of the cloud layers, relatively low visibility at altitude, and darkness.

Robert99 vertical component caught by camera

The picture seems to have been made during the FBI drop tests.

And contrary to what the picture seems to indicate, the vertical velocity of the dropped item is quite low since it only separated from the aircraft about a second earlier. The horizontal velocity of the dropped item is still about 160 MPH (about the same speed as the aircraft) at this early point in the drop.

But in about 10 or 15 seconds the horizontal velocity of the dropped item will be zero (in a calm atmosphere) and all the speed will be vertical for the rest of the way down. At this point only the standard gravitational equations apply and the item will continue to accelerate until its aerodynamic drag is equal to its weight.

For your information, I have NEVER seen the horizontal motion of a falling object treated in a physics textbook. They always use the standard gravitational equations and deal only with vertical motion.

Basically, the vertical motion only problems can be solved by hand. Adding horizontal motion, the problem becomes (if I remember correctly) a quadratic nonlinear equation, or system of such equations, that can make good use of a Cray supercomputer.

Robert99

well in my high school we plotted and calculated the paths of
artillery shells and falling objects etc ... ad nauseum. Mr Tedor
our instructor a former artillery officer with Patton!

In any event, your numbers are close to mine, where I use
160mph. And yes, this is using those drop test high speed
frames. Distance reference is the width of the wheel, a
standard 727 wheel (~50").

And yes. the surprise to me is between frames t1 and t2
the stairs are already fully closed! First time I saw this I
thought: 'this cant be!?' There is every reason to suppose
these are consecutive frames but even if they arent the
quick closure of the stairs is a surprise, unless I am missing
something. The caveat is: is the drop test representative of
what the stars did during Cooper's jump?

This actually agrees with a comment one of the Boeing guys
made during interviews, that 'they had calculated the closure
time of the stairs and it was fast' - he wondered if the stairs
had snagged Cooper jumping? (H had this on his list of 'reasons
Cooper probably died')...

Well ... you are looking at the frames.

Possibly interesting. This is what I referenced months ago but
never finished posting...

[Robert99 37]

georger

***

The picture seems to have been made during the FBI drop tests.

And contrary to what the picture seems to indicate, the vertical velocity of the dropped item is quite low since it only separated from the aircraft about a second earlier. The horizontal velocity of the dropped item is still about 160 MPH (about the same speed as the aircraft) at this early point in the drop.

But in about 10 or 15 seconds the horizontal velocity of the dropped item will be zero (in a calm atmosphere) and all the speed will be vertical for the rest of the way down. At this point only the standard gravitational equations apply and the item will continue to accelerate until its aerodynamic drag is equal to its weight.

For your information, I have NEVER seen the horizontal motion of a falling object treated in a physics textbook. They always use the standard gravitational equations and deal only with vertical motion.

Basically, the vertical motion only problems can be solved by hand. Adding horizontal motion, the problem becomes (if I remember correctly) a quadratic nonlinear equation, or system of such equations, that can make good use of a Cray supercomputer.

Robert99

well in my high school we plotted and calculated the paths of
artillery shells and falling objects etc ... ad nauseum. Mr Tedor
our instructor a former artillery officer with Patton!

In any event, your numbers are close to mine, where I use
160mph. And yes, this is using those drop test high speed
frames. Distance reference is the width of the wheel, a
standard 727 wheel (~50").

And yes. the surprise to me is between frames t1 and t2
the stairs are already fully closed! First time I saw this I
thought: 'this cant be!?' There is every reason to suppose
these are consecutive frames but even if they arent the
quick closure of the stairs is a surprise, unless I am missing
something. The caveat is: is the drop test representative of
what the stars did during Cooper's jump?

This actually agrees with a comment one of the Boeing guys
made during interviews, that 'they had calculated the closure
time of the stairs and it was fast' - he wondered if the stairs
had snagged Cooper jumping? (H had this on his list of 'reasons
Cooper probably died')...

Well ... you are looking at the frames.

Possibly interesting. This is what I referenced months ago but
never finished posting...

I'll bet you ignored the air resistance on those artillery shells.

In your illustration, Cooper and everything strapped to him weighed about 225 pounds when he jumped. Also, the airliner was actually doing about 220-225 MPH (the weight and airspeed numbers are just coincidentally nearly the same). And those stairs are going to retract really fast.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

speaking of Proving things. I notice you still have misinformation (not shocked) on your website.


1) The House - Although his tax records show Kenny Christiansen made an average of $6,000 a year or less prior to the hijacking, yet he paid $16,500 in cash for a house in Bonney Lake, Prove it.

A few months later Christiansen bought the adjoining lot for an additional ten dollars. Prove it.

you keep claiming there are two 2x4's in the attic, Prove it. two separate people failed to show this. you also fail to explain how an extra piece of the counter would be left over without changing the dimensions of the countetop.

the apartment complex was only a couple years old when Kenny was there. what evidence do you have that it was "sleazy" they have bad reviews now, but I doubt they went to crap in a couple years after they were built.

you seem to be so busy claiming other things are false without understanding your website has been prone to bad information which you have had to constantly change over time.

the Reality Hotel awaits you!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

Have you asked yourself why Bernie Geestman would say on television he believes Kenny could be the hijacker when he was WITH Kenny the entire week?

There are a lot of explanations for this one. Maybe Geestman does not want to admit he was with Kenny, for whatever reason. If that is so, there is no way he could say Kenny could not be the hijacker without admitting he was with him. Saying "Could be" commits Geestman to nothing.

You should read the "Decoded" book. I know you have some behind the scenes info and were told they thought Geestman was involved, but said he wasn't to avoid lawsuits. The book doesn't read that way. Meltzer doesn't say Geestman "probably wasn't involved", "likely wasn't involved" or other weasel words. Meltzer says his team was "convinced" he wasn't involved.

They might have been worried about a lawsuit, but just like your example above with Geestman -- why would they say that so unequivocally when they could have finessed it for the same effect?

[377 20]

Robt99 wrote

Quote

The picture seems to have been made during the FBI drop tests.

And contrary to what the picture seems to indicate, the vertical velocity of the dropped item is quite low since it only separated from the aircraft about a second earlier. The horizontal velocity of the dropped item is still about 160 MPH (about the same speed as the aircraft) at this early point in the drop.

But in about 10 or 15 seconds the horizontal velocity of the dropped item will be zero (in a calm atmosphere) and all the speed will be vertical for the rest of the way down. At this point only the standard gravitational equations apply and the item will continue to accelerate until its aerodynamic drag is equal to its weight.

Robert99 is right about forward velocity decay time for jet jumpers. I watched many loads exit a DC 9 from 14,000 ft as it flew over the WFFC 2006 DZ at the old Chanute AFB in Illinois. You could see the trajectory arc clearly. After about 12 seconds the jumpers were falling straight down.

Some jumpers far more skilled than I were able to actually climb above the jet using the high initial forward speed to generate lift on their bodies. I didnt believe it until I saw the helmet cam footage. They went into a track position (max lift) and aligned themselves with the flight path. They actually climbed above the DC 9 as it pulled away from them. It was amazing.

I tried to emulate this on some high speed exit CASA 212 jumps but it was a dismal failure. I just watched the CASA jumpship pull away from me as I looked UP not DOWN at it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

From Buddy Levy, Washington State University professor of English:

Quote

'Geestman was very cagey, even shifty during the interview. My personal suspicion was that he was actually drunk. But in the end he was pretty convincing--probably having spent years answering questions and even convincing himself that what he was saying was the truth. I have very little doubt that Kenny is guilty, and I went away from the interview with Geestman confused and uncertain about his involvement as an accomplice. You have to remember that we were given very little time to process the interview and think about all he had said--they filmed us coming out the door, and those were our initial, on the spot responses. Then we filmed about an hour later in the diner and still, not much processing time and we'd been running around filming for weeks, months even.
Having had more time to think about it it would not surprise me in the least if Geestman was an accomplice, or at the very least knew about it and aided Kenny in some ways before or after...'

From Scott Rolle, former prosecutor for the State of Maryland, and former JAG officer:

***'My sense of Bernie was that he was (to use a police term) squirrelly during our interview. I found it interesting that he would throw his ex under the bus and basically say SHE could have been an accomplice. I had no reason to think he was drunk (no smell or the like) but he seemed a bit dimwitted. I don't feel he told us everything he knows, and his denials were tepid. I am not prepared to say with certainly that Bernie helped Kenny in this case. As a person trained and highly experienced in body language and questioning witnesses, I found Bernie a tough nut to crack in the sense that he appeared credible to a certain extent, and he even cried at one point. However, he left out large chunks of information. I wish I'd had the information on the tugboat records going missing as I would have pressed him hard on that. Hope this helps you... I love this case and this was my favorite episode out of the 23 that we did...'

From associate producer Peter Berg:

Quote

'What was most interesting to me was that Bernie continued to deny his friendship with Kenny, even though they were clearly lifelong friends. He even talked about visiting Kenny on his deathbed in 1994 when he had lots of tubes and IV drips going into him as he was dying of cancer. Bernie said that he suspected that Kenny was DB Cooper for years, and the Decoders asked if he considered asking him if he was DB on his deathbed. Bernie said that he didn't, because Kenny wasn't in the condition to talk about such things.... I'm wondering if he actually was thinking "Was Kenny DB Cooper?" at the time -- and for the previous 25 years -- or if he's just saying that now. It's really hard to say. According to his interview, he suspected Kenny was the hijacker as soon as he saw the FBI Composite Sketch in 1971, but is this really true? If he suspected Kenny all those years, then why didn't he ever talk about it with any of his other friends / family?...'

'I do have a theory about Margie Geestman. I have never spoken to Margie myself, but from what I have heard from you second hand (and from what I've seen from Kenny's personal effects), it seems like Kenny and Margie became much closer friends than even Kenny was with Bernie. Maybe Bernie felt threatened by this. He might have felt that Kenny was imposing on his marriage. Bernie sent us a photo of Kenny and Margie in 1970, digging a trench for the septic tank, the two of them together with big smiles. Bernie was the photographer. You also have seen Helen's pictures of all of them together at the wedding. They were certainly very close.

Bottom line, I think that if Kenny were to confess the hijacking to anyone, it would have been Margie. From what I can tell from your accounts of your conversations with her, she has gone out of her way to protect Kenny. I think that she knows a whole lot more than what she is letting on...'

Quote

'My gut feeling is that Margie knows the truth about DB Cooper, but she is trying to protect her friend in any way that she can. I really think Margie might be the key...'

Quote

'Bernie says that he co-signed for the Airstream trailer he had at the time, and the reason that it was never at his home in Bonney Lake was because it was always kept at the other co-owner's property. Bernie thinks that Margie could have been involved in the skyjacking. She was closer friends than Kenny than he was. He still maintains that he was gone 11 months out of the year, and he says that he was on a tugboat trip over Thanksgiving of 1971. When asked if he ever broke into Margie's house to steal anything, he denied it. He says that Margie just made that story up...'

Quote

'On some questions, Bernie would just sit there like a stone and say nothing for long periods of time...'

Additional from Peter Berg:

Quote

'Go Go Luckey's legal department advised us that unless Bernie Geestman admitted elements of the crime, or confessed, it would be in our best interests not to indicate on-air that we believed he lied, or that he was involved in the D.B. Cooper hijacking. I would appreciate it if you kept this information under your hat until the day I am no longer working for Go Go Luckey...'

Berg, regarding witness Helen Jones:

Quote

'Helen:
When Helen showed up outside of Priced-Right Print & Sign in the morning on Wednesday, she seemed shaken. I could tell that the wheels were turning in her head, trying to remember back to 1971. Once I realized who she was, I asked her why she had come -- and she said it was because she wanted to tell you that she had remembered the brand of cigarettes that Kenny smoked (Raleighs), and that she specifically remembered Kenny clipping coupons for Raleigh cigarettes.

She also said wanted to see the TV production, since she had heard that Bernie was going to be interviewed. I told her that we would be interviewing Bernie that day, but not until later in the evening. I asked her if she wanted me to put her in touch with Bernie, since he was in town -- I knew that they were old friends. She said that she'd rather not see him -- "it was probably for the best."

She said, bitterly: "If I saw him, I would have to give him a piece of my mind. How could he have made Kenny do that?"

Notes from Robert Blevins: At the time of filming, many key pieces of information regarding Geestman and Christiansen were not available to the cast and crew of Decoded, or the production staff. Also, Bernie Geestman did not park the Airstream trailer with a co-owner. It was parked on his undeveloped property with the shop building down in Oakville, and was returned to Bonney Lake after the date of the hijacking. Foss Tugs senior exec has testified that Geestman was NOT gone for 'ten to eleven months' in 1971. Production executive Marisa Kagan also testified that Bernie Geestman, prior to his agreement to an interview, called his sister (witness Dawn Andrusko) and demanded she retract everything she had said in her interview for Into The Blast. She refused to do so, but also refused to appear on camera, citing that she did not want to testify on-air against her own brother.

As you can see from the comments above, they are not a ringing endorsement of either Geestman, his wife, or Christiansen as being involved. But they are not the thoughts of people who were convinced of these peoples' innocence either.

Some time after all these comments were made, all of the people listed were provided a copy of the KC report. (EDIT: I made a mistake on one quote back there, attributing it to Marisa Kagan and Rob Blumenstein. It was actually Pete Berg. FIXED.)

To Shutter: I'm pretty busy right now, but this weekend I will make changes to the DB Cooper page at AB of Seattle. I will change the Bonney Lake house sale reference to simply:

Quote

'In (insert date) Christiansen purchased a home in Bonney Lake under possibly suspicious circumstances...'

I will leave it at that. Anything else I will release next summer with the Cooperland book.

Pure smut.

You don't get to redefine the word - sorry!

Smut:

1.
a. A particle of dirt.
b. A smudge made by soot, smoke, or dirt.
2.
a. Obscenity in speech or writing. Smut: Highly developed
stories and plot lines that appeal to the prurient interests of the
author devoid of sound research or logic, often used to
promote or solicit the vilification or defaming of a person or
idea. Can be in comic form, or in written form (as in romance or
conspiracy books)
b. Pornography.
3.
a. Any of various plant diseases, especially of cereal grasses,
caused by parasitic fungi of the order Ustilaginales that form
black powdery masses of spores on the affected parts.
b. A fungus causing such a disease.

Virtually everything you write is smut of one form or another...

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******From Buddy Levy, Washington State University professor of English:

Quote

'Geestman was very cagey, even shifty during the interview. My personal suspicion was that he was actually drunk. But in the end he was pretty convincing--probably having spent years answering questions and even convincing himself that what he was saying was the truth. I have very little doubt that Kenny is guilty, and I went away from the interview with Geestman confused and uncertain about his involvement as an accomplice. You have to remember that we were given very little time to process the interview and think about all he had said--they filmed us coming out the door, and those were our initial, on the spot responses. Then we filmed about an hour later in the diner and still, not much processing time and we'd been running around filming for weeks, months even.
Having had more time to think about it it would not surprise me in the least if Geestman was an accomplice, or at the very least knew about it and aided Kenny in some ways before or after...'

From Scott Rolle, former prosecutor for the State of Maryland, and former JAG officer:

***'My sense of Bernie was that he was (to use a police term) squirrelly during our interview. I found it interesting that he would throw his ex under the bus and basically say SHE could have been an accomplice. I had no reason to think he was drunk (no smell or the like) but he seemed a bit dimwitted. I don't feel he told us everything he knows, and his denials were tepid. I am not prepared to say with certainly that Bernie helped Kenny in this case. As a person trained and highly experienced in body language and questioning witnesses, I found Bernie a tough nut to crack in the sense that he appeared credible to a certain extent, and he even cried at one point. However, he left out large chunks of information. I wish I'd had the information on the tugboat records going missing as I would have pressed him hard on that. Hope this helps you... I love this case and this was my favorite episode out of the 23 that we did...'

From associate producer Peter Berg:

Quote

'What was most interesting to me was that Bernie continued to deny his friendship with Kenny, even though they were clearly lifelong friends. He even talked about visiting Kenny on his deathbed in 1994 when he had lots of tubes and IV drips going into him as he was dying of cancer. Bernie said that he suspected that Kenny was DB Cooper for years, and the Decoders asked if he considered asking him if he was DB on his deathbed. Bernie said that he didn't, because Kenny wasn't in the condition to talk about such things.... I'm wondering if he actually was thinking "Was Kenny DB Cooper?" at the time -- and for the previous 25 years -- or if he's just saying that now. It's really hard to say. According to his interview, he suspected Kenny was the hijacker as soon as he saw the FBI Composite Sketch in 1971, but is this really true? If he suspected Kenny all those years, then why didn't he ever talk about it with any of his other friends / family?...'

'I do have a theory about Margie Geestman. I have never spoken to Margie myself, but from what I have heard from you second hand (and from what I've seen from Kenny's personal effects), it seems like Kenny and Margie became much closer friends than even Kenny was with Bernie. Maybe Bernie felt threatened by this. He might have felt that Kenny was imposing on his marriage. Bernie sent us a photo of Kenny and Margie in 1970, digging a trench for the septic tank, the two of them together with big smiles. Bernie was the photographer. You also have seen Helen's pictures of all of them together at the wedding. They were certainly very close.

Bottom line, I think that if Kenny were to confess the hijacking to anyone, it would have been Margie. From what I can tell from your accounts of your conversations with her, she has gone out of her way to protect Kenny. I think that she knows a whole lot more than what she is letting on...'

Quote

'My gut feeling is that Margie knows the truth about DB Cooper, but she is trying to protect her friend in any way that she can. I really think Margie might be the key...'

Quote

'Bernie says that he co-signed for the Airstream trailer he had at the time, and the reason that it was never at his home in Bonney Lake was because it was always kept at the other co-owner's property. Bernie thinks that Margie could have been involved in the skyjacking. She was closer friends than Kenny than he was. He still maintains that he was gone 11 months out of the year, and he says that he was on a tugboat trip over Thanksgiving of 1971. When asked if he ever broke into Margie's house to steal anything, he denied it. He says that Margie just made that story up...'

Quote

'On some questions, Bernie would just sit there like a stone and say nothing for long periods of time...'

Additional from Peter Berg:

Quote

'Go Go Luckey's legal department advised us that unless Bernie Geestman admitted elements of the crime, or confessed, it would be in our best interests not to indicate on-air that we believed he lied, or that he was involved in the D.B. Cooper hijacking. I would appreciate it if you kept this information under your hat until the day I am no longer working for Go Go Luckey...'

Berg, regarding witness Helen Jones:

Quote

'Helen:
When Helen showed up outside of Priced-Right Print & Sign in the morning on Wednesday, she seemed shaken. I could tell that the wheels were turning in her head, trying to remember back to 1971. Once I realized who she was, I asked her why she had come -- and she said it was because she wanted to tell you that she had remembered the brand of cigarettes that Kenny smoked (Raleighs), and that she specifically remembered Kenny clipping coupons for Raleigh cigarettes.

She also said wanted to see the TV production, since she had heard that Bernie was going to be interviewed. I told her that we would be interviewing Bernie that day, but not until later in the evening. I asked her if she wanted me to put her in touch with Bernie, since he was in town -- I knew that they were old friends. She said that she'd rather not see him -- "it was probably for the best."

She said, bitterly: "If I saw him, I would have to give him a piece of my mind. How could he have made Kenny do that?"

Notes from Robert Blevins: At the time of filming, many key pieces of information regarding Geestman and Christiansen were not available to the cast and crew of Decoded, or the production staff. Also, Bernie Geestman did not park the Airstream trailer with a co-owner. It was parked on his undeveloped property with the shop building down in Oakville, and was returned to Bonney Lake after the date of the hijacking. Foss Tugs senior exec has testified that Geestman was NOT gone for 'ten to eleven months' in 1971. Production executive Marisa Kagan also testified that Bernie Geestman, prior to his agreement to an interview, called his sister (witness Dawn Andrusko) and demanded she retract everything she had said in her interview for Into The Blast. She refused to do so, but also refused to appear on camera, citing that she did not want to testify on-air against her own brother.

As you can see from the comments above, they are not a ringing endorsement of either Geestman, his wife, or Christiansen as being involved. But they are not the thoughts of people who were convinced of these peoples' innocence either.

Some time after all these comments were made, all of the people listed were provided a copy of the KC report. (EDIT: I made a mistake on one quote back there, attributing it to Marisa Kagan and Rob Blumenstein. It was actually Pete Berg. FIXED.)

To Shutter: I'm pretty busy right now, but this weekend I will make changes to the DB Cooper page at AB of Seattle. I will change the Bonney Lake house sale reference to simply:

Quote

'In (insert date) Christiansen purchased a home in Bonney Lake under possibly suspicious circumstances...'

I will leave it at that. Anything else I will release next summer with the Cooperland book.

Pure smut.

Smut is porn. I don't see any porn up there. I see honest and heartfelt comments by identified and known people. And as I stated in the edit, I kept all the emails and Facebook messages from where the comments originated. Verification and second sources. I learned that by reading All The President's Men, which I think should be required reading for any Journalism 101 class in America.

I appreciate your skill in cracking numbers. That's great. But when a piece of human-generated truth is presented, you just can't handle it. You think those people didn't say those things? Think I made the whole thing up? They are all falsely quoted? Go ahead and say so...IF you have any proof of same otherwise I will consider it nothing more than slander and a cheap shot.

'It's smut' (?) That's all you got? And I thought you went to college and stuff...

Sorry Blevins - you don't get to redefine the word!

Smut:

1.
a. A particle of dirt.
b. A smudge made by soot, smoke, or dirt.
2.
a. Obscenity in speech or writing. Smut: Highly developed
stories and plot lines that appeal to the prurient interests of the
author/reader devoid of sound research or logic, often used to
promote or solicit the vilification or defaming of a person or
idea. Can be in comic form, or in written form (as in romance or
conspiracy books)
b. Pornography.
3.
a. Any of various plant diseases, especially of cereal grasses,
caused by parasitic fungi of the order Ustilaginales that form
black powdery masses of spores on the affected parts.
b. A fungus causing such a disease.

Virtually everything you write is pre-conceived smut of one
form or another meant to destroy or vilify someone ... and it
doesn't take college to see and know that!

You have a problem, boy!

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

************From Buddy Levy, Washington State University professor of English:

Quote

'Geestman was very cagey, even shifty during the interview. My personal suspicion was that he was actually drunk. But in the end he was pretty convincing--probably having spent years answering questions and even convincing himself that what he was saying was the truth. I have very little doubt that Kenny is guilty, and I went away from the interview with Geestman confused and uncertain about his involvement as an accomplice. You have to remember that we were given very little time to process the interview and think about all he had said--they filmed us coming out the door, and those were our initial, on the spot responses. Then we filmed about an hour later in the diner and still, not much processing time and we'd been running around filming for weeks, months even.
Having had more time to think about it it would not surprise me in the least if Geestman was an accomplice, or at the very least knew about it and aided Kenny in some ways before or after...'

From Scott Rolle, former prosecutor for the State of Maryland, and former JAG officer:

***'My sense of Bernie was that he was (to use a police term) squirrelly during our interview. I found it interesting that he would throw his ex under the bus and basically say SHE could have been an accomplice. I had no reason to think he was drunk (no smell or the like) but he seemed a bit dimwitted. I don't feel he told us everything he knows, and his denials were tepid. I am not prepared to say with certainly that Bernie helped Kenny in this case. As a person trained and highly experienced in body language and questioning witnesses, I found Bernie a tough nut to crack in the sense that he appeared credible to a certain extent, and he even cried at one point. However, he left out large chunks of information. I wish I'd had the information on the tugboat records going missing as I would have pressed him hard on that. Hope this helps you... I love this case and this was my favorite episode out of the 23 that we did...'

From associate producer Peter Berg:

Quote

'What was most interesting to me was that Bernie continued to deny his friendship with Kenny, even though they were clearly lifelong friends. He even talked about visiting Kenny on his deathbed in 1994 when he had lots of tubes and IV drips going into him as he was dying of cancer. Bernie said that he suspected that Kenny was DB Cooper for years, and the Decoders asked if he considered asking him if he was DB on his deathbed. Bernie said that he didn't, because Kenny wasn't in the condition to talk about such things.... I'm wondering if he actually was thinking "Was Kenny DB Cooper?" at the time -- and for the previous 25 years -- or if he's just saying that now. It's really hard to say. According to his interview, he suspected Kenny was the hijacker as soon as he saw the FBI Composite Sketch in 1971, but is this really true? If he suspected Kenny all those years, then why didn't he ever talk about it with any of his other friends / family?...'

'I do have a theory about Margie Geestman. I have never spoken to Margie myself, but from what I have heard from you second hand (and from what I've seen from Kenny's personal effects), it seems like Kenny and Margie became much closer friends than even Kenny was with Bernie. Maybe Bernie felt threatened by this. He might have felt that Kenny was imposing on his marriage. Bernie sent us a photo of Kenny and Margie in 1970, digging a trench for the septic tank, the two of them together with big smiles. Bernie was the photographer. You also have seen Helen's pictures of all of them together at the wedding. They were certainly very close.

Bottom line, I think that if Kenny were to confess the hijacking to anyone, it would have been Margie. From what I can tell from your accounts of your conversations with her, she has gone out of her way to protect Kenny. I think that she knows a whole lot more than what she is letting on...'

Quote

'My gut feeling is that Margie knows the truth about DB Cooper, but she is trying to protect her friend in any way that she can. I really think Margie might be the key...'

Quote

'Bernie says that he co-signed for the Airstream trailer he had at the time, and the reason that it was never at his home in Bonney Lake was because it was always kept at the other co-owner's property. Bernie thinks that Margie could have been involved in the skyjacking. She was closer friends than Kenny than he was. He still maintains that he was gone 11 months out of the year, and he says that he was on a tugboat trip over Thanksgiving of 1971. When asked if he ever broke into Margie's house to steal anything, he denied it. He says that Margie just made that story up...'

Quote

'On some questions, Bernie would just sit there like a stone and say nothing for long periods of time...'

Additional from Peter Berg:

Quote

'Go Go Luckey's legal department advised us that unless Bernie Geestman admitted elements of the crime, or confessed, it would be in our best interests not to indicate on-air that we believed he lied, or that he was involved in the D.B. Cooper hijacking. I would appreciate it if you kept this information under your hat until the day I am no longer working for Go Go Luckey...'

Berg, regarding witness Helen Jones:

Quote

'Helen:
When Helen showed up outside of Priced-Right Print & Sign in the morning on Wednesday, she seemed shaken. I could tell that the wheels were turning in her head, trying to remember back to 1971. Once I realized who she was, I asked her why she had come -- and she said it was because she wanted to tell you that she had remembered the brand of cigarettes that Kenny smoked (Raleighs), and that she specifically remembered Kenny clipping coupons for Raleigh cigarettes.

She also said wanted to see the TV production, since she had heard that Bernie was going to be interviewed. I told her that we would be interviewing Bernie that day, but not until later in the evening. I asked her if she wanted me to put her in touch with Bernie, since he was in town -- I knew that they were old friends. She said that she'd rather not see him -- "it was probably for the best."

She said, bitterly: "If I saw him, I would have to give him a piece of my mind. How could he have made Kenny do that?"

Notes from Robert Blevins: At the time of filming, many key pieces of information regarding Geestman and Christiansen were not available to the cast and crew of Decoded, or the production staff. Also, Bernie Geestman did not park the Airstream trailer with a co-owner. It was parked on his undeveloped property with the shop building down in Oakville, and was returned to Bonney Lake after the date of the hijacking. Foss Tugs senior exec has testified that Geestman was NOT gone for 'ten to eleven months' in 1971. Production executive Marisa Kagan also testified that Bernie Geestman, prior to his agreement to an interview, called his sister (witness Dawn Andrusko) and demanded she retract everything she had said in her interview for Into The Blast. She refused to do so, but also refused to appear on camera, citing that she did not want to testify on-air against her own brother.

As you can see from the comments above, they are not a ringing endorsement of either Geestman, his wife, or Christiansen as being involved. But they are not the thoughts of people who were convinced of these peoples' innocence either.

Some time after all these comments were made, all of the people listed were provided a copy of the KC report. (EDIT: I made a mistake on one quote back there, attributing it to Marisa Kagan and Rob Blumenstein. It was actually Pete Berg. FIXED.)

To Shutter: I'm pretty busy right now, but this weekend I will make changes to the DB Cooper page at AB of Seattle. I will change the Bonney Lake house sale reference to simply:

Quote

'In (insert date) Christiansen purchased a home in Bonney Lake under possibly suspicious circumstances...'

I will leave it at that. Anything else I will release next summer with the Cooperland book.

Pure smut.

Smut is porn. I don't see any porn up there. I see honest and heartfelt comments by identified and known people. And as I stated in the edit, I kept all the emails and Facebook messages from where the comments originated. Verification and second sources. I learned that by reading All The President's Men, which I think should be required reading for any Journalism 101 class in America.

I appreciate your skill in cracking numbers. That's great. But when a piece of human-generated truth is presented, you just can't handle it. You think those people didn't say those things? Think I made the whole thing up? They are all falsely quoted? Go ahead and say so...IF you have any proof of same otherwise I will consider it nothing more than slander and a cheap shot.

'It's smut' (?) That's all you got? And I thought you went to college and stuff...

Sorry Blevins - you don't get to redefine the word!

Smut:

1.
a. A particle of dirt.
b. A smudge made by soot, smoke, or dirt.
2.
a. Obscenity in speech or writing. Smut: Highly developed
stories and plot lines that appeal to the prurient interests of the
author devoid of sound research or logic, often used to
promote or solicit the vilification or defaming of a person or
idea. Can be in comic form, or in written form (as in romance or
conspiracy books)
b. Pornography.
3.
a. Any of various plant diseases, especially of cereal grasses,
caused by parasitic fungi of the order Ustilaginales that form
black powdery masses of spores on the affected parts.
b. A fungus causing such a disease.

Virtually everything you write is smut of one form or another...

Really? How exactly? Did you get that definition from Wiki or something? I see it includes porn, which is the most common definition.

How exactly are those comments 'smut'? Are they lies? Are they false quotes I simply made up? If so...you should PROVE they are or stuff it into your back pocket.

In reality, you haven't said a thing about those comments except to take cheap shots. And if you quote my post over again with another slanderous comment without proof...I will go to our moderator Quade about it. Just saying.

And the reason I will do that is because I can prove that is exactly what those people said. If you have personal issues regarding me personally, that's YOUR problem.

what is missing from your shallow little preconceived agenda
is any hint of sound research and/or logic.

You have the wild idea you get to make the bait and the rules
too - leading to your set of conclusions every time! A core
ingredient for smut.

People have criticised you for this since the day you came here.

Why you think you can keep brow-beating people with it and
have it not get noticed (finally!) speaks to your motives and a
severe lack of sensitivity to REALITY HOTEL on your part.

Play it again Sam!

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

I'm not going to re-quote the entire post and make readers wade through everything.

You've had your say, fine. But it's also true you've pulled out every pathetic stop in the book in your efforts to discredit. You've made fun of Gayla Prociv, our other business that pays the bills, in fact virtually everything you could latch your grubby little hands onto.

In the end, I think most sensible people will see your comments for what they are. Just personal, and mostly crap.

That's a personal opinion of course.

Your redirection above wont work!

The issue is FACTS vs. SMUT.

You dont know the difference. And like the above, you don't
mind getting personal to skirt the issue.

You say "most people will think this or think that, say this or
say that, blah blah blah..."

All smut peddlers say they speak for THE PEOPLE!

Say just once you speak "for all salamanders" or "buffalo"?
That would be just as accurate.

[skyjack71 0]

Ha Ha Ha has a character known as Ms Fuchs. Strangely and oddly there was a Ms Fuchs in the life of Duane Weber.

A woman Duane had a relationship with in the 70's. Unusual name would you not admit? I had forgotten about this woman and I was reminded of the irony between Ha Ha Ha and the life of Duane Weber.

Guess what Duane was converting to cash during his last yrs - GOLD and Silver Coins! Yet this book was written as a spoof, but perhaps it was NOT all just a story!

THOSE GOLD and SILVER coins I did NOT have knowledge of until the last 5 yrs of his life - AFTER he made a trip to OMAHA, NB to a saft deposit box under the name of John Collins.

Wonder if he did NOT pay it FORWARD for another 10 yrs - is that why the FBI REFUSED to provide me with proof Duane was also John Collins as Msshutter did recently.

The bank is gone now and all that might have been left in it was a ticket or some item that proved Weber was Cooper.

HA HA HA BY D. B. COOPER

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

ODDLY the name Bradley Collins is the name of my brother - now what are all of the strange co-incidinces about. HOW the HELL so many Cooper exist with connections to the story I told.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[FLYJACK 654]

skyjack71

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

[MarkBennett 5]

RobertMBlevins

From Buddy Levy, Washington State University professor of English:

Quote

'Geestman was very cagey, even shifty during the interview. My personal suspicion was that he was actually drunk. But in the end he was pretty convincing--probably having spent years answering questions and even convincing himself that what he was saying was the truth. I have very little doubt that Kenny is guilty, and I went away from the interview with Geestman confused and uncertain about his involvement as an accomplice. You have to remember that we were given very little time to process the interview and think about all he had said--they filmed us coming out the door, and those were our initial, on the spot responses. Then we filmed about an hour later in the diner and still, not much processing time and we'd been running around filming for weeks, months even.
Having had more time to think about it it would not surprise me in the least if Geestman was an accomplice, or at the very least knew about it and aided Kenny in some ways before or after...'

From Scott Rolle, former prosecutor for the State of Maryland, and former JAG officer:

***'My sense of Bernie was that he was (to use a police term) squirrelly during our interview. I found it interesting that he would throw his ex under the bus and basically say SHE could have been an accomplice. I had no reason to think he was drunk (no smell or the like) but he seemed a bit dimwitted. I don't feel he told us everything he knows, and his denials were tepid. I am not prepared to say with certainly that Bernie helped Kenny in this case. As a person trained and highly experienced in body language and questioning witnesses, I found Bernie a tough nut to crack in the sense that he appeared credible to a certain extent, and he even cried at one point. However, he left out large chunks of information. I wish I'd had the information on the tugboat records going missing as I would have pressed him hard on that. Hope this helps you... I love this case and this was my favorite episode out of the 23 that we did...'

From associate producer Peter Berg:

Quote

'What was most interesting to me was that Bernie continued to deny his friendship with Kenny, even though they were clearly lifelong friends. He even talked about visiting Kenny on his deathbed in 1994 when he had lots of tubes and IV drips going into him as he was dying of cancer. Bernie said that he suspected that Kenny was DB Cooper for years, and the Decoders asked if he considered asking him if he was DB on his deathbed. Bernie said that he didn't, because Kenny wasn't in the condition to talk about such things.... I'm wondering if he actually was thinking "Was Kenny DB Cooper?" at the time -- and for the previous 25 years -- or if he's just saying that now. It's really hard to say. According to his interview, he suspected Kenny was the hijacker as soon as he saw the FBI Composite Sketch in 1971, but is this really true? If he suspected Kenny all those years, then why didn't he ever talk about it with any of his other friends / family?...'

'I do have a theory about Margie Geestman. I have never spoken to Margie myself, but from what I have heard from you second hand (and from what I've seen from Kenny's personal effects), it seems like Kenny and Margie became much closer friends than even Kenny was with Bernie. Maybe Bernie felt threatened by this. He might have felt that Kenny was imposing on his marriage. Bernie sent us a photo of Kenny and Margie in 1970, digging a trench for the septic tank, the two of them together with big smiles. Bernie was the photographer. You also have seen Helen's pictures of all of them together at the wedding. They were certainly very close.

Bottom line, I think that if Kenny were to confess the hijacking to anyone, it would have been Margie. From what I can tell from your accounts of your conversations with her, she has gone out of her way to protect Kenny. I think that she knows a whole lot more than what she is letting on...'

Quote

'My gut feeling is that Margie knows the truth about DB Cooper, but she is trying to protect her friend in any way that she can. I really think Margie might be the key...'

Quote

'Bernie says that he co-signed for the Airstream trailer he had at the time, and the reason that it was never at his home in Bonney Lake was because it was always kept at the other co-owner's property. Bernie thinks that Margie could have been involved in the skyjacking. She was closer friends than Kenny than he was. He still maintains that he was gone 11 months out of the year, and he says that he was on a tugboat trip over Thanksgiving of 1971. When asked if he ever broke into Margie's house to steal anything, he denied it. He says that Margie just made that story up...'

Quote

'On some questions, Bernie would just sit there like a stone and say nothing for long periods of time...'

Additional from Peter Berg:

Quote

'Go Go Luckey's legal department advised us that unless Bernie Geestman admitted elements of the crime, or confessed, it would be in our best interests not to indicate on-air that we believed he lied, or that he was involved in the D.B. Cooper hijacking. I would appreciate it if you kept this information under your hat until the day I am no longer working for Go Go Luckey...'

Berg, regarding witness Helen Jones:

Quote

'Helen:
When Helen showed up outside of Priced-Right Print & Sign in the morning on Wednesday, she seemed shaken. I could tell that the wheels were turning in her head, trying to remember back to 1971. Once I realized who she was, I asked her why she had come -- and she said it was because she wanted to tell you that she had remembered the brand of cigarettes that Kenny smoked (Raleighs), and that she specifically remembered Kenny clipping coupons for Raleigh cigarettes.

She also said wanted to see the TV production, since she had heard that Bernie was going to be interviewed. I told her that we would be interviewing Bernie that day, but not until later in the evening. I asked her if she wanted me to put her in touch with Bernie, since he was in town -- I knew that they were old friends. She said that she'd rather not see him -- "it was probably for the best."

She said, bitterly: "If I saw him, I would have to give him a piece of my mind. How could he have made Kenny do that?"

Notes from Robert Blevins: At the time of filming, many key pieces of information regarding Geestman and Christiansen were not available to the cast and crew of Decoded, or the production staff. Also, Bernie Geestman did not park the Airstream trailer with a co-owner. It was parked on his undeveloped property with the shop building down in Oakville, and was returned to Bonney Lake after the date of the hijacking. Foss Tugs senior exec has testified that Geestman was NOT gone for 'ten to eleven months' in 1971. Production executive Marisa Kagan also testified that Bernie Geestman, prior to his agreement to an interview, called his sister (witness Dawn Andrusko) and demanded she retract everything she had said in her interview for Into The Blast. She refused to do so, but also refused to appear on camera, citing that she did not want to testify on-air against her own brother.

As you can see from the comments above, they are not a ringing endorsement of either Geestman, his wife, or Christiansen as being involved. But they are not the thoughts of people who were convinced of these peoples' innocence either.

Some time after all these comments were made, all of the people listed were provided a copy of the KC report. (EDIT: I made a mistake on one quote back there, attributing it to Marisa Kagan and Rob Blumenstein. It was actually Pete Berg. FIXED.)

To Shutter: I'm pretty busy right now, but this weekend I will make changes to the DB Cooper page at AB of Seattle. I will change the Bonney Lake house sale reference to simply:

Quote

'In (insert date) Christiansen purchased a home in Bonney Lake under possibly suspicious circumstances...'

I will leave it at that. Anything else I will release next summer with the Cooperland book. To ensure verification of the comments, I kept all the email and Facebook messages from where they originate.

Thanks for posting the real comments of the producers.

I'd have to say their comments are much less definite than yours, but certainly not as adamant as Brad Meltzer describes in his book.

[georger 197]

FLYJACK

***

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

Pay no attention to Jo. She claims to own every idea in the
Cooper catalog.

Your theory offers a real world idea of how Cooper money could
have come to Tina Bar.

JT claimed to have released ping-pong balls in the Washougal
and they came to rest on Tina Bar ... a claim yet to be
documented!

A claim like yours was advanced here by Farflung some years
back, involving construction on Hayden or Govt Island - I forget
which.. You might want to do a search of his post on that.

What dates of passage do you have in mind?

And, what species of diatoms dominate in the slough you are
focusing on! ?
...

[Robert99 37]

georger

******

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

Pay no attention to Jo. She claims to own every idea in the
Cooper catalog.

Your theory offers a real world idea of how Cooper money could
have come to Tina Bar.

JT claimed to have released ping-pong balls in the Washougal
and they came to rest on Tina Bar ... a claim yet to be
documented!

A claim like yours was advanced here by Farflung some years
back, involving construction on Hayden or Govt Island - I forget
which.. You might want to do a search of his post on that.

What dates of passage do you have in mind?

And, what species of diatoms dominate in the slough you are
focusing on! ?
...

Flyjack, can you give the precise location of the Columbia Slough that you are talking about?

Further, do you know the dates that construction started and finished on the Flushing Channel between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake? The river entrance is just south (upstream) of Caterpillar Island.

And Flyjack, if you are a resident of the Portland/Vancouver area, do you know when the marina was built that is now between Caterpillar Island and the "mainland"?

Finally, does anyone know of a source (hopefully with a link that works!) for the Columbia River data at Vancouver for the period from November 24,1971 to December 31, 1972?

Things are moving and time is of the essence!

Robert99

[MarkBennett 5]

GreyCop, Jo Weber, RobertMBlevins and Georger are arrested by the DZ police for crimes against dropzone.com.

They are told each can make one statement and then will be shot!

Jo says, "Duane told me he was Dan Cooooooper!". She is promptly shot.

Next, GreyCop says, "I've solved the case!". He, too, is promptly shot.

Next, RobertMBlevins says, "This might take awhile. I want to talk about my top 25 reasons why Kenny Christiansen is DB Cooper...".

Before he can start, Georger interrupts and says, "Wait! Shoot me first!".

[FLYJACK 654]

Robert99

*********

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

Pay no attention to Jo. She claims to own every idea in the
Cooper catalog.

Your theory offers a real world idea of how Cooper money could
have come to Tina Bar.

JT claimed to have released ping-pong balls in the Washougal
and they came to rest on Tina Bar ... a claim yet to be
documented!

A claim like yours was advanced here by Farflung some years
back, involving construction on Hayden or Govt Island - I forget
which.. You might want to do a search of his post on that.

What dates of passage do you have in mind?

And, what species of diatoms dominate in the slough you are
focusing on! ?
...

Flyjack, can you give the precise location of the Columbia Slough that you are talking about?

Further, do you know the dates that construction started and finished on the Flushing Channel between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake? The river entrance is just south (upstream) of Caterpillar Island.

And Flyjack, if you are a resident of the Portland/Vancouver area, do you know when the marina was built that is now between Caterpillar Island and the "mainland"?

Finally, does anyone know of a source (hopefully with a link that works!) for the Columbia River data at Vancouver for the period from November 24,1971 to December 31, 1972?

Things are moving and time is of the essence!

Robert99

I am not from the Portland area..

The St. Johns Landfill/dump was operational in the 70's and is at the East end of the Columbia Slough close to the Williamette. maybe a 3-4 mile float to TBar, has this been considered as a possible source of the cash??

If the cash came from the dump, it wouldn't have been thrown out intentionally, perhaps the cash was stashed in a house, maybe the owner had died and the cash was abandoned. The house was demoed and the debris dumped.. So, a dead previous owner matched to a demolished house in 1978-9ish.

I found another location in the Slough that looks like a back yard of an old house that had a slide into the Slough, if the cash were buried in the yard, the slide may have put it in the water.

Ironically, I found a small culvert that connects to drainage ponds/ditches at the Southern side of the Airport,,, it currently dumps into the Waterway..

So, there are many ways that cash could have made its way into the Columbia Slough, but the dump is interesting as the cash could have been stashed "protected"" in a house or structure (container) for years first..

Since it is unlikely that the cash was out in the elements anywhere for 6-8 years. It seems probable that it was stashed, hidden and dislodged by mechanical means prior to TBar...

It was an active landfill through the "Cooper" 1971-1980 timeframe

"14 million tons of garbage
Located in north Portland near the confluence of the Columbia and Willamette rivers, the 238-acre St. Johns Landfill is situated in Metro’s Smith and Bybee Wetlands Natural Area, the largest protected wetland within an American city. By the early 1960s, the former lakebed was filled with garbage to the edge of its surrounding levee. Although the majority of waste in the landfill is domestic solid waste, industrial waste from a pesticide-manufacturing facility also was disposed in the landfill between 1958 and 1962. Metro estimates that up to 14 million tons of waste were disposed in the landfill site during its years of operation."

[377 20]

Flyjack wrote

Quote

So, there are many ways that cash could have made its way into the Columbia Slough, but the dump is interesting as the cash could have been stashed "protected"" in a house or structure (container) for years first..

New kid on the block with new ideas. What's not to like?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

FLYJACK

************

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

Pay no attention to Jo. She claims to own every idea in the
Cooper catalog.

Your theory offers a real world idea of how Cooper money could
have come to Tina Bar.

JT claimed to have released ping-pong balls in the Washougal
and they came to rest on Tina Bar ... a claim yet to be
documented!

A claim like yours was advanced here by Farflung some years
back, involving construction on Hayden or Govt Island - I forget
which.. You might want to do a search of his post on that.

What dates of passage do you have in mind?

And, what species of diatoms dominate in the slough you are
focusing on! ?
...

Flyjack, can you give the precise location of the Columbia Slough that you are talking about?

Further, do you know the dates that construction started and finished on the Flushing Channel between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake? The river entrance is just south (upstream) of Caterpillar Island.

And Flyjack, if you are a resident of the Portland/Vancouver area, do you know when the marina was built that is now between Caterpillar Island and the "mainland"?

Finally, does anyone know of a source (hopefully with a link that works!) for the Columbia River data at Vancouver for the period from November 24,1971 to December 31, 1972?

Things are moving and time is of the essence!

Robert99

I am not from the Portland area..

The St. Johns Landfill/dump was operational in the 70's and is at the East end of the Columbia Slough close to the Williamette. maybe a 3-4 mile float to TBar, has this been considered as a possible source of the cash??

If the cash came from the dump, it wouldn't have been thrown out intentionally, perhaps the cash was stashed in a house, maybe the owner had died and the cash was abandoned. The house was demoed and the debris dumped.. So, a dead previous owner matched to a demolished house in 1978-9ish.

I found another location in the Slough that looks like a back yard of an old house that had a slide into the Slough, if the cash were buried in the yard, the slide may have put it in the water.

Ironically, I found a small culvert that connects to drainage ponds/ditches at the Southern side of the Airport,,, it currently dumps into the Waterway..

So, there are many ways that cash could have made its way into the Columbia Slough, but the dump is interesting as the cash could have been stashed "protected"" in a house or structure (container) for years first..

Since it is unlikely that the cash was out in the elements anywhere for 6-8 years. It seems probable that it was stashed, hidden and dislodged by mechanical means prior to TBar...

It was an active landfill through the "Cooper" 1971-1980 timeframe

"14 million tons of garbage
Located in north Portland near the confluence of the Columbia and Willamette rivers, the 238-acre St. Johns Landfill is situated in Metro’s Smith and Bybee Wetlands Natural Area, the largest protected wetland within an American city. By the early 1960s, the former lakebed was filled with garbage to the edge of its surrounding levee. Although the majority of waste in the landfill is domestic solid waste, industrial waste from a pesticide-manufacturing facility also was disposed in the landfill between 1958 and 1962. Metro estimates that up to 14 million tons of waste were disposed in the landfill site during its years of operation."

Dates these dumps were affected by high water 1971-1980 ?

[FLYJACK 654]

georger

***************

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

Pay no attention to Jo. She claims to own every idea in the
Cooper catalog.

Your theory offers a real world idea of how Cooper money could
have come to Tina Bar.

JT claimed to have released ping-pong balls in the Washougal
and they came to rest on Tina Bar ... a claim yet to be
documented!

A claim like yours was advanced here by Farflung some years
back, involving construction on Hayden or Govt Island - I forget
which.. You might want to do a search of his post on that.

What dates of passage do you have in mind?

And, what species of diatoms dominate in the slough you are
focusing on! ?
...

Flyjack, can you give the precise location of the Columbia Slough that you are talking about?

Further, do you know the dates that construction started and finished on the Flushing Channel between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake? The river entrance is just south (upstream) of Caterpillar Island.

And Flyjack, if you are a resident of the Portland/Vancouver area, do you know when the marina was built that is now between Caterpillar Island and the "mainland"?

Finally, does anyone know of a source (hopefully with a link that works!) for the Columbia River data at Vancouver for the period from November 24,1971 to December 31, 1972?

Things are moving and time is of the essence!

Robert99

I am not from the Portland area..

The St. Johns Landfill/dump was operational in the 70's and is at the East end of the Columbia Slough close to the Williamette. maybe a 3-4 mile float to TBar, has this been considered as a possible source of the cash??

If the cash came from the dump, it wouldn't have been thrown out intentionally, perhaps the cash was stashed in a house, maybe the owner had died and the cash was abandoned. The house was demoed and the debris dumped.. So, a dead previous owner matched to a demolished house in 1978-9ish.

I found another location in the Slough that looks like a back yard of an old house that had a slide into the Slough, if the cash were buried in the yard, the slide may have put it in the water.

Ironically, I found a small culvert that connects to drainage ponds/ditches at the Southern side of the Airport,,, it currently dumps into the Waterway..

So, there are many ways that cash could have made its way into the Columbia Slough, but the dump is interesting as the cash could have been stashed "protected"" in a house or structure (container) for years first..

Since it is unlikely that the cash was out in the elements anywhere for 6-8 years. It seems probable that it was stashed, hidden and dislodged by mechanical means prior to TBar...

It was an active landfill through the "Cooper" 1971-1980 timeframe

"14 million tons of garbage
Located in north Portland near the confluence of the Columbia and Willamette rivers, the 238-acre St. Johns Landfill is situated in Metro’s Smith and Bybee Wetlands Natural Area, the largest protected wetland within an American city. By the early 1960s, the former lakebed was filled with garbage to the edge of its surrounding levee. Although the majority of waste in the landfill is domestic solid waste, industrial waste from a pesticide-manufacturing facility also was disposed in the landfill between 1958 and 1962. Metro estimates that up to 14 million tons of waste were disposed in the landfill site during its years of operation."

Dates these dumps were affected by high water 1971-1980 ?

Still looking for water levels.. though the activity may have dislodged it.

EDIT
Excessive algae growth and low oxygen in the Slough,, and more details...

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~scott/pubs/slough/cop-public-rpt.htm

[Robert99 37]

FLYJACK

The St. Johns Landfill/dump was operational in the 70's and is at the east end of the Columbia Slough close to the Williamette. maybe a 3-4 mile float to TBar, has this been considered as a possible source of the cash??

Flyjack, this possible source has not been considered before to the best of my knowledge. I would like to defer further comment on this to a future date. In any event, I'll go where the facts indicate.

If you can find a source for the early 1970s Columbia River data, please post or PM immediately. Both Georger and I will probably have trouble keeping our feet on the planet if you find that data.

In the meantime, stay tuned and keep the faith. As mentioned earlier, the wheels are moving and time is of the essence.

Robert99

[georger 197]

FLYJACK

******************

As for FLYJAX that is a take off from a am who has told a similar story to me for 9 months by the handle of BULLJAX.

What story is a take off??? are you just trying to discredit me.. by associating me with someone else that may or may not exist,,, I am not playing games... I may be newer to this but that can be a positive or a negative..

There are lots of ways the cash could have been dislodged in the Columbia Slough..

There is even a garbage landfill in the Slough that was operational late 70's..

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126

I am creating a logic tree and one branch is that the money came from the landfill in the slough, was not intentionally thrown out, may have been hidden in a house that was torn down and all debris dumped,, Any homes torn down in the late 1970's.. after the owner died...

Pay no attention to Jo. She claims to own every idea in the
Cooper catalog.

Your theory offers a real world idea of how Cooper money could
have come to Tina Bar.

JT claimed to have released ping-pong balls in the Washougal
and they came to rest on Tina Bar ... a claim yet to be
documented!

A claim like yours was advanced here by Farflung some years
back, involving construction on Hayden or Govt Island - I forget
which.. You might want to do a search of his post on that.

What dates of passage do you have in mind?

And, what species of diatoms dominate in the slough you are
focusing on! ?
...

Flyjack, can you give the precise location of the Columbia Slough that you are talking about?

Further, do you know the dates that construction started and finished on the Flushing Channel between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake? The river entrance is just south (upstream) of Caterpillar Island.

And Flyjack, if you are a resident of the Portland/Vancouver area, do you know when the marina was built that is now between Caterpillar Island and the "mainland"?

Finally, does anyone know of a source (hopefully with a link that works!) for the Columbia River data at Vancouver for the period from November 24,1971 to December 31, 1972?

Things are moving and time is of the essence!

Robert99

I am not from the Portland area..

The St. Johns Landfill/dump was operational in the 70's and is at the East end of the Columbia Slough close to the Williamette. maybe a 3-4 mile float to TBar, has this been considered as a possible source of the cash??

If the cash came from the dump, it wouldn't have been thrown out intentionally, perhaps the cash was stashed in a house, maybe the owner had died and the cash was abandoned. The house was demoed and the debris dumped.. So, a dead previous owner matched to a demolished house in 1978-9ish.

I found another location in the Slough that looks like a back yard of an old house that had a slide into the Slough, if the cash were buried in the yard, the slide may have put it in the water.

Ironically, I found a small culvert that connects to drainage ponds/ditches at the Southern side of the Airport,,, it currently dumps into the Waterway..

So, there are many ways that cash could have made its way into the Columbia Slough, but the dump is interesting as the cash could have been stashed "protected"" in a house or structure (container) for years first..

Since it is unlikely that the cash was out in the elements anywhere for 6-8 years. It seems probable that it was stashed, hidden and dislodged by mechanical means prior to TBar...

It was an active landfill through the "Cooper" 1971-1980 timeframe

"14 million tons of garbage
Located in north Portland near the confluence of the Columbia and Willamette rivers, the 238-acre St. Johns Landfill is situated in Metro’s Smith and Bybee Wetlands Natural Area, the largest protected wetland within an American city. By the early 1960s, the former lakebed was filled with garbage to the edge of its surrounding levee. Although the majority of waste in the landfill is domestic solid waste, industrial waste from a pesticide-manufacturing facility also was disposed in the landfill between 1958 and 1962. Metro estimates that up to 14 million tons of waste were disposed in the landfill site during its years of operation."

Dates these dumps were affected by high water 1971-1980 ?

Still looking for water levels.. though the activity may have dislodged it.

EDIT
Excessive algae growth and low oxygen in the Slough,, and more details...

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~scott/pubs/slough/cop-public-rpt.htm

Tip ... when you post a url here click url tab below the posting box, paste the url, then finish by clicking url tab again. This bounds the url line by url tabs both ends, so when you post your message the url line becomes an active link. Thats how I do it. It works.

example:
http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/...h/cop-public-rpt.htm

This slough would be rich with diatoms. Tom found no diatoms in the bills he examined ... !

hope this post works!