DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

Georger, I have never spoken to Jerry, and once again I was only relaying a message given to me, I have yet to look into this "clue" for any validation and you seem to want to "shoot the messenger" or "have a go" at what I posted.

I heard alot about this site, but, from what I have seen it's not as impressive as I hoped it would be, Is there a reason why you felt the need to go on and on about one post? I do understand the problems with over posting, but I feel that this was justified, I don't like to get into the "politics" of blogs where people only attack each other post after post, but again felt compelled to explain my reasons.

the only thing I know from this point is that it is not Simmons they are talking about.

I can understand your frustration to a point, but not everyone is as knowledgeable as the next when it comes to this case or being a Meteorologist or a Pilot and so on.

when I first came to this site I was hoping to learn more as time went on, but I only see page after page of constant bickering that leads no where!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

Does anyone know where this information can be found? It undoubtedly exists somewhere, but where? I haven't been able to locate it by Internet searches.

[quade 3]

Have you tried looking at this?
http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/historicals/search

Ok, it probably doesn't have what you want, but if you contacted the office my guess is they'd know who to hook you up with.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 197]

Quote

Georger, I have never spoken to Jerry, and once again I was only relaying a message given to me, I have yet to look into this "clue" for any validation and you seem to want to "shoot the messenger" or "have a go" at what I posted.

I heard alot about this site, but, from what I have seen it's not as impressive as I hoped it would be, Is there a reason why you felt the need to go on and on about one post? I do understand the problems with over posting, but I feel that this was justified, I don't like to get into the "politics" of blogs where people only attack each other post after post, but again felt compelled to explain my reasons.

the only thing I know from this point is that it is not Simmons they are talking about.

I can understand your frustration to a point, but not everyone is as knowledgeable as the next when it comes to this case or being a Meteorologist or a Pilot and so on.

when I first came to this site I was hoping to learn more as time went on, but I only see page after page of constant bickering that leads no where!

Ok, thanks. I have received a message of
clarification, from someone I believe to be
trustworthy. I will simply take a back seat and
let you folks proceed, as you wish.

I appreciate the message. Thanks.

G.

[edit] One caveat. You folks surely underdstand
the pressure which will be on you now, since JT
posted about this last night.

Unless you folks are prepared to give a new
description (revised descrption) of Cooper based
on the new witness, or something useful from this
witness which is germane to this thread, I cant quite
underdstand why you posted at all about this matter
here. But I just work here! ]

[georger 197]

Quote

Jerry,

How about you have this new guy give us a description of the guy he remembers? Get all the details, hair, eye color, height, weight, complexion etc. You would do the community a big service and help get things back on track here.

Tom Kaye

Are we back on track ?

[georger 197]

Quote

Jerry's almost certainly speaking of George Labissoniere...the witness who saw Cooper going back and forth to the bathroom.

Your recitation of Gray impressed me - you nailed it.

I think you are probaby correct about the rest.

Others needed a refresher course, I guess.

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Have you tried looking at this?
http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/historicals/search

Ok, it probably doesn't have what you want, but if you contacted the office my guess is they'd know who to hook you up with.

Quade, Thanks for the link. It looks like the NOAA does have what I am looking for in their library.

[Farflung 0]

I’m not sure how an attorney’s name, address and phone number got posted in regard to the ‘latest’ Cooper witness. Feeding frenzies are typically not very discriminate or discreet.

I don’t dive into a vehicle and drive aimlessly from one half-baked piece of Christian Science evidence to another as it has proven to be an expensive and error induced path to follow based upon my life experiences. But a frenetic approach is commonly viewed as ‘doing something’ therefore is laudable based on nothing more than architecture and the appeal shown by the least informed on the subject.

The fact that the person was across the aisle from Cooper AND used the can appears to match another person’s story more closely who may or may not have been in Gray’s book. Here is an article on witness ‘X+1”:

http://livermore.patch.com/articles/livermore-man-recaps-encounter-with-db-cooper

I’m not as aligned with the practice of taking multiple ‘wild stabs in the dark’ on subjects as I’m concerned of one day receiving one myself; figuratively or literally. At minimum, this latest episode certainly exposes a few weaknesses which I don’t believe were acquired this week.

[JerryThomas 0]

Farflung: By your recent post you have called attention to an innocent man. You just did the same thing Blevins did. Maybe you can find more article's to post. But don't be prejudice try looking at women as witnesses. Jerry

[Farflung 0]

Innocent Man? What would he be ‘guilty’ of exactly? Sitting across the aisle from Cooper, waiting to use the restroom (as was published in the article)?

How’s that reading comprehension? Was the title “Wild Assed Guess Here” too vague, oblique or impossibly indecipherable for even the most informed of observer? My computer monitor is flooded with the artifacts of awesome investigation techniques.

I guess that Flight 305 was teaming with people (perhaps thousands?) sitting across from Cooper (there are presently at least 3) and waiting to use the lavatory while scanning Tina (something understandable) and the hijacker. Let’s see here, there is now the lawyer from Gray’s book, the man from the article published last August (I did supply a source document) and ‘your’ own super secret witness-ette who has become the Rosetta to who Cooper….. isn’t. Sounds good to me.

I would like to take this moment to apologize for adding a link to an article which features a man who sat across the aisle from Cooper and was waiting to use the toilet. What on Earth was I thinking? There are no similarities between the ‘person’ of ambiguous gender identification which Jerry has hinted about and the person who was so maliciously exposed by me and me alone, in an article published on the world wide web. I hate me.

[JerryThomas 0]

Farflung: When info is posted on this forum that give's the true Identity of witnesses or possible witnesses, They are subgect to unwanted phone calls. Maybe I should post your name phone # and the city you live in here on dropzone, get the message . Jerry

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Jerry,

How about you have this new guy give us a description of the guy he remembers? Get all the details, hair, eye color, height, weight, complexion etc. You would do the community a big service and help get things back on track here.

Tom Kaye

I appreciate Jerry's efforts, but i'm dubious. How well does *anyone* remember someone they saw 40 years ago - especially if there was no reason (at the time) to take note, and almost certainly this witness has seen countless photos of the Cooper sketches, was watching Unsolved Mysteries, etc, and we all know how such stuff can taint memory.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[BruceSmith 3]

In reviewing who our mystery passenger might be, I have come across another mystery, the McPhersons.

In his book, Richard Tosaw mentions a "Bill McPherson and his son, Scott."

However, at the symposium in Portland last November, Carol Abracadabra posted the passenger list from the Seattle Times and it included three McPhersons:

1. Bill McPherson
2. S. McPherson (son)
3. Scott McPherson

Can anyone tell me what is going on with this family? Do we have two different families, or one family with a lot of S's?

Also, the Seattle Times list has 36 names, including the three McPhersons, so, was Dan Cooper the 37th passenger, then? I have been operating under the assumption that DB Cooper surrendered 36 passengers in Seattle for the loot and chutes.

Lastly, if S. McPherson (son) and Scott McPherson are one and the same person, do we only have 35 passengers plus DB C? Or have I lost somebody?

Or Gawd-Forbid (!) the FBI screwed up the passenger list? Or the Seattle Times, etc....

Thanks.

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

In reviewing who our mystery passenger might be, I have come across another mystery, the McPhersons.

In his book, Richard Tosaw mentions a "Bill McPherson and his son, Scott."

However, at the symposium in Portland last November, Carol Abracadabra posted the passenger list from the Seattle Times and it included three McPhersons:

1. Bill McPherson
2. S. McPherson (son)
3. Scott McPherson

Can anyone tell me what is going on with this family? Do we have two different families, or one family with a lot of S's?

Also, the Seattle Times list has 36 names, including the three McPhersons, so, was Dan Cooper the 37th passenger, then? I have been operating under the assumption that DB Cooper surrendered 36 passengers in Seattle for the loot and chutes.

Lastly, if S. McPherson (son) and Scott McPherson are one and the same person, do we only have 35 passengers plus DB C? Or have I lost somebody?

Or Gawd-Forbid (!) the FBI screwed up the passenger list? Or the Seattle Times, etc....

Thanks.

I just watched the first part of "in search of" and they said he was the 36th passenger to board. (quick check)

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Quote

In reviewing who our mystery passenger might be, I have come across another mystery, the McPhersons.

In his book, Richard Tosaw mentions a "Bill McPherson and his son, Scott."

However, at the symposium in Portland last November, Carol Abracadabra posted the passenger list from the Seattle Times and it included three McPhersons:

1. Bill McPherson
2. S. McPherson (son)
3. Scott McPherson

Can anyone tell me what is going on with this family? Do we have two different families, or one family with a lot of S's?

Also, the Seattle Times list has 36 names, including the three McPhersons, so, was Dan Cooper the 37th passenger, then? I have been operating under the assumption that DB Cooper surrendered 36 passengers in Seattle for the loot and chutes.

Lastly, if S. McPherson (son) and Scott McPherson are one and the same person, do we only have 35 passengers plus DB C? Or have I lost somebody?

Or Gawd-Forbid (!) the FBI screwed up the passenger list? Or the Seattle Times, etc....

Thanks.

I just watched the first part of "in search of" and they said he was the 36th passenger to board. (quick check)

So, DBC was the 36th passenger and only 35 got off the plane?

[TomKaye 1]

Quote

I appreciate Jerry's efforts, but i'm dubious. How well does *anyone* remember someone they saw 40 years ago...

It's important because we have the original Cooper descriptions from the files. If the current description does not match his original, then all his info is worthless. If it's a great match, then any additional information provided should be investigated. For once we have a way to establish some level of credibility for a current witness.

Tom

[BobKnoss 0]

Quote

Quote

I appreciate Jerry's efforts, but i'm dubious. How well does *anyone* remember someone they saw 40 years ago...

It's important because we have the original Cooper descriptions from the files. If the current description does not match his original, then all his info is worthless. If it's a great match, then any additional information provided should be investigated. For once we have a way to establish some level of credibility for a current witness.

Tom

Please explain how a witness of 40 years with a few minutes of exposure would have a high level of importance to the case when you all totally reject the presentation of a witness who spent months watching Dan Cooper train for a hijacking that came off identical to the training, with a trainer having the same name as a crew member? Notes taken at the recommendation of the FBI, positively identified as Dan Cooper from photographs of Duane Weber, and having associated connections to other participants like McCoy, Haapala, O'Hara, Truit, Ralph, even Jerry Thomas, etc., etc. His wife tells a similar story. Sounds like a coverup to me. Youse guys is humorous. Too bad about the veto, Blevins. I liked the idea. Kinda like isolation for you. Padded cell. Echo chamber. A Sasquash Cooper Sandbox all your own. You could write fake posts from all of us to your hearts content.

[Farflung 0]

No matter which of the passengers observed Cooper on one or more or their trips to the facilities, I hope none of them even mention eye color. No matter who ultimately is or has been interviewed about this episode, by the time they would have seen Cooper he was…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxIwRDs1Yc8

Is it strange that these stories which include such painful detail in many areas are oddly devoid of mentioning this fashion accessory when the sun had long sunk deep into the Pacific? Why would Cooper wear these things at that time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UMUSxBZhjA

Is this really a good recipe for a crime?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHa_jqxnn4o

Well I still think that was just another fluke. Skinny black ties, dark suits and sunglasses just weren’t that common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa3RzOWWh80

That proves it and it is verified and confirmed (sans sources of course, I just like using that phrase).

[Krip 2]

"Well I still think that was just another fluke. Skinny black ties, dark suits and sunglasses just weren’t that common. "

I disagree the dress code depends on the profession. + Some people don't worry about the latest and greatest.

The dark glasses might have been used to protect his night vision. Once he left the acft.

R.

One Jump Wonder

[mrshutter45 21]

If you listen to his interview he claims he was sitting behind Cooper on the right??? (Jack Almstad)

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Farflung: When info is posted on this forum that give's the true Identity of witnesses or possible witnesses, They are subgect to unwanted phone calls. Maybe I should post your name phone # and the city you live in here on dropzone, get the message . Jerry

That sounds like a confirmation to me. It didn't take a brainiac to figure out which witness, Jerry. Only SOME people on the plane actually noticed Cooper. The FBI took statements from everybody and printed everybody. Only a certain number were able to give any description of the hijacker. When you mentioned the bathroom, there was only ONE witness who said he saw Cooper either coming or going...Labissoniere. His info is totally public.

Personally, I think Jack Almstad is a better witness. He says Cooper actually smiled at him after he made a joke about if they stayed in the air much longer (circling Seattle) that they might have to serve Thanksgiving dinner. His info is freely available. Phone and address in Livermore, CA are listed.

This is really getting complicated, with latter day
revisionist recantations, of the Franco-Pamadjeon
kind. Maybe someday you folks will read the thread?

From former post, quoted:

georger

Jun 10, 2008, 12:46 AM

Post #2337 of 32264 (5457 views)
Registered: May 25, 2008
Posts: 4826

Re: [Ckret] Interview with Tina's stepmom on 11/26/71 [In reply to] Quote | Reply

------------------------------------------------------------ In Reply To
------------------------------------------------------------
When the passengers were taken off of the plane they were escorted to a VIP lounge. Only five of the 35 passengers took notice of Cooper or that there may be a problem other than what was announced by the crew. They are as follows:

Mr Gregory
Mr Labissoniere
Mr Spreckel
Mr Williams
Mrs House

The remaining 30, to include the Simons, stated they knew of nothing other than what the crew had advised them nor did they notice Cooper. I guess a few minutes a fame changed the Simons' mind.

------------------------------------------------------------


Maybe the dna of Mr. Simons should have been taken
from the Lav to refresh his mind!

[end of quotation]

Simons recanted and had a lot to say later (not in
his original testimony even remotely!) -
Almstad is now recanting with the able help of JT
and EVicki and Mr Shutter all of who have a BIG
AGENDA too!?

Gray supposedly gets his quotes from the files of
the FBI as to what each witness said or did not say.
How does that match with what Agent Carr said?
Tom and Carol read the same files -

What say yee Tom? Are we HOT or COLD?

Or just fucked?

Morever Tom wants to mix and match now, compare
former testimony with current testimony. That he
assumes will yield a reliable .... something-er-other.
Well, it wont pass statistical muster!

Finger prints were taken from the lav. Were the
finger prints of those who visited the lav found?
What about that in the files?

Are all the previous original files on this case even
at the Seattle office to be searched today?

Researcher, Geoff Gray, would literally have us
believe there was such inconsistency in physiscal
reports by witnesses that no physical profile ever
existed, in reality, or is possible at this late date.
That is the clear force of Gray's testimony in his
book, having read the FBI files he found.

So what, precisely, does Gray propose be done?
What is his solution? Tom can you speak for Gray.
Of course not. Gray can ride four Clydales abreast.
He just cant tell us what it feels like, or what it
means !

[Farflung 0]

I wasn’t endorsing the lack of skinny black ties, just the opposite.

So much ‘evidence’ is presented as significant like the black tie being uncommon on Flight 305. I found this bemusing considering what the cockpit crew was wearing that night. Just another paradox of this discussion where in order to make a point, a larger ‘given’ is often ignored. Skinny, black ties being unusual in 1971 is one such example.

Additionally, Cooper put on his sunglasses just after showing the first Stewardess his ‘bomb’ and kept them on for the balance of the flight. If this is true, I don’t see how other witnesses could comment on Cooper’s eye color (but they will). I would have expected one (just one) of them to have made some comment about how Cooper looked at them, which they recall because he was wearing sunglasses at night. So far, no such luck. Weird.

Even after forty years there is an infantile desire to claim some sort of super secrecy associated with this crime, all the while some school girl teases are inexplicably published on the ‘world wide web’. Weirder.

Nothing in this vein will pass any muster outside the Sasquatch, MIB, Roswellian UFO Crashologists and DB Cooper, school of intertwined conspiracies. But it has such amazing stamina. Weirdest.

[georger 197]

Skinny, black ties being unusual in 1971 is one such example.

[377 20]

Is someone suggesting that skinny black ties were or will be out of style?

If so, that is very threatening to me as I own several.

They were standard engineer fashion when I graduated in 72.

The young hipsters wear them even today.

So can I keep mine?

Can I wear them without embarassing my
spouse?

What do the dropzone fashion police say?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Is someone suggesting that skinny black ties were or will be out of style?

If so, that is very threatening to me as I own several.

They were standard engineer fashion when I graduated in 72.

The young hipsters wear them even today.

So can I keep mine?

Can I wear them without embarassing my
spouse?

What do the dropzone fashion police say?

377

You're good, unless your waist is bigger than your chest.
Then a wide tie will have a slimming effect.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!