DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

Heck, we can’t even assign gender with a 50% hit rate on this thread. Why?

Utter lack of reading comprehension, education or grip of a common language perhaps? I dunno.

Within two tiny segments of linguistic artifacts is utter discourse regarding the sex of the primary subject. Lemme give ya an example, show whatta mean.

The attached file contains some screen shots of this thread where some photos were sent to ‘him’ in one comment. In the next comment the gender of the ‘new’ witness becomes female. Well, OK then.

Below that is an excerpt from the article RobertMBlevins posted, where the person who carried the money on board 305 is now a ‘guy’ or ‘man’. I had thought the person who carried the sack of money was nun other than - Sister Tina Mucklow. Who is unmistakably among the most noticeable of females to have ever graced the universe and beyond with her full lips, pixie nose and smoldering eyes. This witness stated that a man carried the money sack and may somehow be in possession of finer details about Cooper? Really?? Really???

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Heck, we can’t even assign gender with a 50% hit rate on this thread. Why?

Utter lack of reading comprehension, education or grip of a common language perhaps? I dunno.

Within two tiny segments of linguistic artifacts is utter discourse regarding the sex of the primary subject. Lemme give ya an example, show whatta mean.

The attached file contains some screen shots of this thread where some photos were sent to ‘him’ in one comment. In the next comment the gender of the ‘new’ witness becomes female. Well, OK then.

Below that is an excerpt from the article RobertMBlevins posted, where the person who carried the money on board 305 is now a ‘guy’ or ‘man’. I had thought the person who carried the sack of money was nun other than - Sister Tina Mucklow. Who is unmistakably among the most noticeable of females to have ever graced the universe and beyond with her full lips, pixie nose and smoldering eyes. This witness stated that a man carried the money sack and may somehow be in possession of finer details about Cooper? Really?? Really???

Hmmm, Jerry's comment said Jack was sitting across from Cooper, the video interview Jack says he was one row behind him on the right side?

I thought the "painter" was sitting across from Cooper able to get a good look at him?

It was light rain.....it was heavy rain.
winds from the east...winds from the west?
Cooper is 35...no 45....Cooper is in his 50's?
36 passengers? nope 37?
Wikipedia Cooper was in seat 18-c
Yahoo news The last row, 18, starboard side. The hijacker sat here, in seat 18-E.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 197]

Quote

Is someone suggesting that skinny black ties were or will be out of style?

If so, that is very threatening to me as I own several.

They were standard engineer fashion when I graduated in 72.

The young hipsters wear them even today.

So can I keep mine?

Can I wear them without embarassing my
spouse?

What do the dropzone fashion police say?

377

I kept all my broad wool ties, inherited from my Dad.

You never know when you might be called upon to
bomb Germany and Japan again, in a B17 or B29!

or sell them on eBay to buy food! (or pay Col
Sanders' inflated baby chicken prices)



Go into a men's clothing store today and see
what you find ...

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Is someone suggesting that skinny black ties were or will be out of style?

If so, that is very threatening to me as I own several.

They were standard engineer fashion when I graduated in 72.

The young hipsters wear them even today.

So can I keep mine?

Can I wear them without embarassing my
spouse?

What do the dropzone fashion police say?

377

You're good, unless your waist is bigger than your chest.
Then a wide tie will have a slimming effect.

Matt

or a thin tie will provide an incentive ?

[georger 197]

Quote

Heck, we can’t even assign gender with a 50% hit rate on this thread. Why?

Utter lack of reading comprehension, education or grip of a common language perhaps? I dunno.

Within two tiny segments of linguistic artifacts is utter discourse regarding the sex of the primary subject. Lemme give ya an example, show whatta mean.

The attached file contains some screen shots of this thread where some photos were sent to ‘him’ in one comment. In the next comment the gender of the ‘new’ witness becomes female. Well, OK then.

Below that is an excerpt from the article RobertMBlevins posted, where the person who carried the money on board 305 is now a ‘guy’ or ‘man’. I had thought the person who carried the sack of money was nun other than - Sister Tina Mucklow. Who is unmistakably among the most noticeable of females to have ever graced the universe and beyond with her full lips, pixie nose and smoldering eyes. This witness stated that a man carried the money sack and may somehow be in possession of finer details about Cooper? Really?? Really???

I caught that too - hmmmmmm.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Heck, we can’t even assign gender with a 50% hit rate on this thread. Why?

Utter lack of reading comprehension, education or grip of a common language perhaps? I dunno.

Within two tiny segments of linguistic artifacts is utter discourse regarding the sex of the primary subject. Lemme give ya an example, show whatta mean.

The attached file contains some screen shots of this thread where some photos were sent to ‘him’ in one comment. In the next comment the gender of the ‘new’ witness becomes female. Well, OK then.

Below that is an excerpt from the article RobertMBlevins posted, where the person who carried the money on board 305 is now a ‘guy’ or ‘man’. I had thought the person who carried the sack of money was nun other than - Sister Tina Mucklow. Who is unmistakably among the most noticeable of females to have ever graced the universe and beyond with her full lips, pixie nose and smoldering eyes. This witness stated that a man carried the money sack and may somehow be in possession of finer details about Cooper? Really?? Really???

Hmmm, Jerry's comment said Jack was sitting across from Cooper, the video interview Jack says he was one row behind him on the right side?

I thought the "painter" was sitting across from Cooper able to get a good look at him?

It was light rain.....it was heavy rain.
winds from the east...winds from the west?
Cooper is 35...no 45....Cooper is in his 50's?
36 passengers? nope 37?
Wikipedia Cooper was in seat 18-c
Yahoo news The last row, 18, starboard side. The hijacker sat here, in seat 18-E.

Here ya go - hot off the Franco-Pamadjeon press,
as it were.

Quote:
: The passenger in seat 15D

On the day before Thanksgiving in 1971, a man who identified himself as Dan Cooper (a journalist erred in reporting his name as “D. B.,” and it was never cleared up) was one of thirty-six passengers who boarded Northwest Airlines flight 305. The plane, a Boeing 727, was headed from Portland, Oregon, to Seattle, Washington—a flight that would normally take less than one hour. Shortly after takeoff, when the plane had climbed to thirty thousand feet, the passenger in seat 15D gave one of the two stewardesses a note.

As purloined from:
http://www.bookrags.com/research/d-b-cooper-omc/

On the other hand one of the attached may depicts
Cooper's plane and seat. Im not sure. Maybe an expert could finally confirm ad post a chart?

Oh! Cooper sat in 18C. Correction* quote: "Taking the middle seat in the last row on the right side of the plane was, seat 18c, that was the seat identified as Cooper's seat ... right as you are facing the back of the plane... "

good luck -

[Farflung 0]

No RobertMBlevins, I meant RobertMBlevins posted that article. (see attachment)

Why is this always such a struggle?

Would you be so kind as to quote the source you ‘believe’ that Jerry Thomas supplied? That is usually a good way to cross check things while doing a sanity check. Some people rarely, IF EVER, post anything resembling a source.

[georger 197]

Quote

Is the chart UA727-100-II correct so far as you
know?

Or was there another row behind as in chart
UA727-100 ?

Where is the galley that was in shambles?

• Quote

[Farflung 0]

georger,

That looks like the best representation of a 727 akin to 305’s that I have ever seen. But I have ZERO knowledge of the seating configuration for any commercial passenger carrier.

Attached are some more examples from different airlines. All the equipment I worked around was modular and unitized (just like the PAX airlines) and could be configured many ways. You could have a galley between two lavs or eliminate a lav etc.

[georger 197]

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georger,

That looks like the best representation of a 727 akin to 305’s that I have ever seen. But I have ZERO knowledge of the seating configuration for any commercial passenger carrier.

Attached are some more examples from different airlines. All the equipment I worked around was modular and unitized (just like the PAX airlines) and could be configured many ways. You could have a galley between two lavs or eliminate a lav etc.

I have copies of your photos also. My United Airlines
(versions) come from:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/frequentlyflying/2011
/10/12/vintage-airline-seat-map-united-airlines-
boeing-727-100-from-1978/

and a related url. I dug deeper and found the two
versions I posted.

Cooper's plane was a 727-100, not 727-200 (doc
Sluggo/Snowmman). However, it appears different
airlines installed different seating patterns according
to their needs.

I have found many NWA 727-200 seating charts,
but not any for a NWA 727-100, especially for n467us
Cooper's plane.

The UA 727-100 charts come as close as anything
I have ever found to the FBI's description of
Cooper's seat, its location, etc ...

That is all I know.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

No RobertMBlevins, I meant RobertMBlevins posted that article. (see attachment)

Why is this always such a struggle?

Would you be so kind as to quote the source you ‘believe’ that Jerry Thomas supplied? That is usually a good way to cross check things while doing a sanity check. Some people rarely, IF EVER, post anything resembling a source.

Source? What source? He didn't give one. I took a guess he was talking about passenger Labissoniere, due to the bathroom reference. He's one of the witnesses mentioned in Gray's book, page 94 or so.

My first reaction was, JT was talking about Simons -
but I was wrong.

The fact is there must have been a line at the rear
just before landing at SEA, all headed to the lav..
Funny. Simons, Almstad, Labissoniere ... thats a
nice bunch of prints to confirm and sort out (from
Coop's, in one location) for that flight alone.

Gray says little about the printing ...? I wonder why.

[Farflung 0]

This winner of this year’s ‘Miss Communication Award for Today’ goes to……..

Wait for it…….. little longer…….. yep.

Are you kidding me RobertMBlevins? I quote a source from your ‘latest’ comment (which YOU linked) where this ‘new witness’ describes the person who carried the money on board as a man and you got…. and apparently are…… still confused about this?!

Did or…. do or…… have…… you ever, read anything that you link, attach or otherwise communicate to the thread before posting? For it appears like random acts of technology are getting through to my computer. If Jerry Thomas, DID NOT supply a source, THEN how on Earth could you have thought I was quoting his non-existent source?! I mean really.

Talk about hoisted by one’s own petard. See why this thread is embarrassing? New secret witness indeed.

[airtwardo 6]

Hey...yer not supposed to be playin' chess at a checkers tournament!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 197]

Did or…. do or…… have…… you ever, read anything that you link,

[BobKnoss 0]

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Farflung: When info is posted on this forum that give's the true Identity of witnesses or possible witnesses, They are subgect to unwanted phone calls. Maybe I should post your name phone # and the city you live in here on dropzone, get the message . Jerry

I hate to take the wind out of Mr. Thomas' sails, but I have it on freshly released information that his new indisputable Cooper is now on record:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PYtK6gtrCs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnznUBb1bpQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The reason he could not be found is simple time travel, which has now been officially confirmed by the council. Jerry is right, as always. Jerry knows everything, he just doesn't blab it all over the universe. The chase is over. Case solved and confirmed. Finni. End. Capute. Sorry everyone. I was wrong, too. Must have been a different parallel universe. Jerry, how DO you do it?

[BobKnoss 0]

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.......If the Seattle FBI doesn't at least take a quick look at KC, I'm going to start believing they don't really WANT to solve the case. Even before all this crap came out...Himmelsbach called KC a must investigate suspect. And that was five years ago........

What goes around comes around. I think I explained this 12 years ago, Blevins. It is called a "CONSPIRACY" and the term "COVER-UP" is applicable. You beginning to get the picture like Jo Weber is finally getting it?????? Pretty basic stuff here. They don't have time to waste continuing their cover-up. They expect YOU to carry the load. Thank you very much. And the band played on..... Feelin' silly yet?

[georger 197]

We have been saying Cooper sat is 18C. Most of the
socalled official publications and the FBI including
Larry Carr have been saying, 18C.

Tom Kaye says it was 18E. based on FBI 302's he
has read !

Quote:

"2. Cooper sat in seat 18E (Fig. 1), all the way in the back on the right side of the plane. According to the FBI 302's, the black tie was found on his seat cushion - 18E."

http://www.citizensleuths.com/coopers-tie.html

Kaye even has a photo of the seat - notice there is
no window next to his seat as per allegations Cooper
moved over to look out "his" window' while on the
ground at SEA? Must have been some other window
because there is no window close to his seat, on his
side of the plane. And right side of the plane now
means 'right' looking forward from the back, which
contradicts another socalled official account.

The photo of his seat is not like the seating plan
I previously posted - notice the number 18 on the
AC dispenser just above the seat which identifies the
row of these two seats ...

Maybe Kaye really does have an edge on this case
and the rest of us are just wasting our time ?

I assume the photo of seat 18E Tom has put up on
his website is an FBI photo?

Look at that cheezy paneling and formica - talk
about 'cut rate'! Who was their interior designer?

[mrshutter45 21]

I would say that the photo was taken not long after the hijacking, notice the difference in the color of the cloth on the seat by the isle? looks like a new one.

was Cooper sitting in that seat? it would make sense for him not to sit where a window is due to sniper fire.

also the plane is listed as a 727-51 not 727-100
Sluggo does mention 727-51 (see photo)
the last pic of the plane (see photo)

can Florence be contacted for seat validation?

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N467US

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Is someone suggesting that skinny black ties were or will be out of style?

If so, that is very threatening to me as I own several.

They were standard engineer fashion when I graduated in 72.

The young hipsters wear them even today.

So can I keep mine?

Can I wear them without embarassing my
spouse?

What do the dropzone fashion police say?

377

You're good, unless your waist is bigger than your chest.
Then a wide tie will have a slimming effect.

Matt

or a thin tie will provide an incentive ?

If the incentive motivates one to hit the tread mill and ease off the bon bons, then yep!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Orange1 0]

Quote

You're good, unless your waist is bigger than your chest.
Then a wide tie will have a slimming effect.

Matt

If your waist is bigger than your chest the only thing that will have a slimming effect is a diet and exercise program

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

You're good, unless your waist is bigger than your chest.
Then a wide tie will have a slimming effect.

Matt

If your waist is bigger than your chest the only thing that will have a slimming effect is a diet and exercise program

OK, "special effect", like a scifi or conspiracy theory movie.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Farflung 0]

It is really interesting to read all the discourse, confusion and mayhem which results from supposition or careless reporting. Sure is fortunate that the protocols of research are so thoroughly respected on this thread; can anyone imagine what would happen if someone was to add pure BS into the mix? I simply feel faint from the very mention. Thank goodness this is an intellectual sanctuary and not a breeding ground for refugees from ‘A Clockwork Orange’ or ‘One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest’.

So now the seat is 18E. Presumably the center seat thus allowing for the beguiling Tina to sit close to Cooper and light cigarettes and communicate discretely. It’s been like the Spinning Teacups with people behind, to the left and right of Cooper dependent upon what version one chooses to believe. If you don’t ‘like’ a version then call the individual and see if you can brow beat them into changing their answer. Apparently this has made Dan Cooper comic books appear in Shemya in 1951, so it has been tested. I just read the report and note the data……. yawwwwwnnnnnn.

Oh no!!! I found another source for Cooper’s seat, what Oh what, is one to do? Cooper was in seat 18C, an aisle seat, according to living witness and former FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach. Here you can see for yourself from (13:55 – 14:05):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7taFf09hofI

Well…… now what? Several LIVING witnesses are contradicting each other, FBI files are confusing and frightening and individual ‘pet theories’ must be supported with data which must be deemed superior by unknown certification organizations. All the before mentioned techniques of sorting this has just crapped the bed…… again.

What’s the battle plan here? Call Tom Kaye and confirm that he didn’t misquote the seat? Call Geoff Gray and confirm that he didn’t misread the FBI files? Call the History Channel cameraman and see if he may have accidentally pressed the ‘speech/motion distortion’ button which made Ralph say and touch seat 18C? Obviously no one should take the source material at face value (never have before), no I say, it must be suppressed and edited until it matches a pre-selected conclusion (as is the norm).

It really drives home how careless, sloppy or flat out nefarious actions regarding information can damage the trail to the truth beyond repair or recovery. I cherish the fine, upstanding conduct which has proceeded each and every carefully thought out comment on this thread. The DBC thread is where leaps of logic are unheard of, douchebaggery extinct and BS held in check so well, that only the scarcest of dribble is ever detected by the most critical of eyes. Well done, well done indeed.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Oh no!!! I found another source for Cooper’s seat, what Oh what, is one to do? Cooper was in seat 18C, an aisle seat, according to living witness and former FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach. Here you can see for yourself from (13:55 – 14:05):

You missed an opportunity, Farf. It would seem reasonable to assume that for a period he may have been in 18C, 18D, 18E and maybe even encroached on the window seat all at the same time. Is that a conundrum? Would he have used one? I think not.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Oh no!!! I found another source for Cooper’s seat, what Oh what, is one to do? Cooper was in seat 18C, an aisle seat, according to living witness and former FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach. Here you can see for yourself from (13:55 – 14:05):

Whoever wrote Toms website says verbatum:

(a) "Cooper sat in seat 18E (Fig. 1), all the way in
the back on the right side of the plane.

(b) ""According to the FBI 302's, the black tie was
found on his seat cushion - 18E."

Tom/Carol do not say:

"According to the FBI 302's, Cooper sat is seat 18E."

If it matters, Ckret said:

Ckret
Jun 9, 2008, 4:23 PM
Post #2319 of 32296 (5639 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007
Posts: 522 Re: [bigway] More tie details?
placement/location? [In reply to]
________________________________________

Evidence as it was found on the plane:

Clip-on tie with tie clasp on the tie, laying in seat
18E.

Empty belly container laying on the floor in front of
18D.

Pink chute laying across seats 17c and 17b.

Unaltered backpack (Pioneer) sitting in seat 18B.

_________________________________________

The only proof I can find on Tom Kaye's Science
Team website, that Cooper sat in 18E, is the
statemenL "It would seem obvious that Cooper
left his tie on his seat (he sat in),"

That may seem obvious to Tom & Carol, but
that is not proof or a source ...

I think we are justifiably entitled at this point to
assume Tom and Coral have no proof of their
assertion Cooper sat in 18E. Its nothing more than
an assumption they make.

The probability analysis they include does not even
address this point -

In the meantime there are numerous official and
semi-official sources which say Cooper sat in 18C.

Neither Tom or anyone else say that any FBI 302
says that Cooper sat in 18E, that Tina or Flo
specified that ... ?

Im just curious why its so obvious to Tom and Carol?
As before, I doubt they will even answer -

It is worth noting, the back of that plane was a very
tight space, relatively speaking. Not a lot of room
to move around in - most the space occupied by
seats. Ckret's listing of seats where evidence was
found tends to illustrate that fact.

Maybe the lack of space is one reason Tom speculates: "It would seem obvious that Cooper
left his tie on his seat (he sat in),".

Who knows and does it even matter?

• Quote

[Farflung 0]

This research stuff can be rather dry at times but every once in a while I come across that gem that makes it all worthwhile.

That’s right, mere days after the hijacking an article outlines what truly happened on Flight 305.

Now it can be told, from secret archives long hidden from view and public scrutiny. Apparently when Cooper departed Seattle, he ordered two flight officers and a ‘stewardess’ into a small and ever so steamy and hot compartment, while the pilot flew to Reno. I can’t imagine what it must have been like to have been trapped in some dark confines with Tina, no doubt breathing deeply as she tries to stave off panic. But I’ll try.

The reason I choose to believe this particular article should be obvious. I’m looking for the truth and this is how I imagined it would be. Well….. minus one of those flight officers and making me the other would have been how I imagine it, but this will do for now.