DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

[reply
I've posted a link before to the MLK details including the details of the guy who claims he threw the rifle into the Mississippi. Yes, the rifle they had was inconclusive. That is what the conspiracists jumped on as proof that it wasn't the fatal rifle (which was in the Mississippi), and that it may not even have been Ray who fired the fatal shot. Either way it does not tie up with what you had previously implied - that Duane had the rifle that was used. (If you now say that this was not what you were implying then you need to go back and read your post again, the one about Duane getting all upset about a stolen rifle.)

All this is ridiculous anyway. Do you honestly think I can be bothered to go check depositions?

Tell me where you obtained YOUR info about a gun being in the Mississippi? At least it will get me out of YOUR hair for a while. You may not want to check depositions, but I want to know where you got YOUR information.

I think if you read what I posted it DOES NOT state that I know that the gun Duane had was involved - ONLY that a gun of the same type appeared in our home a short time later - just another one of the many co-incidences that keep piling up. I suppose you could say I implied, but it is just me thinking out loud.

NOW, tell me where to find this Mississippi information that you keep tooting? DOES anyone else know anything about this Mississippi GUN? WHEN was this Mississippi gun found - why didn't it make the national news?

I try to keep abreast of things like that, but I must have missed that one. WAS it in the news papers or a book or whatever?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Erroll 75]

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but who knows , maybe cooper deployed as he was standing on the step.

From a standing start to 200 mph?

If someone did that, it would separate all their vertebrae from each other by 8 inches.

Test it this way. Stand on the side of an interstate with a grappling hook. Attaching it to 20 ft of rope and then to a harness.

Lasso a truck passing by at 70mph.

What do you mean by 'a standing start'? When you leave the aircraft you are travelling at the same speed as the aircraft, which means in some cases actually slowing down in freefall.

[ltdiver 3]

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Tell me where you obtained YOUR info about a gun being in the Mississippi? At least it will get me out of YOUR hair for a while. You may not want to check depositions, but I want to know where you got YOUR information.

NOW, tell me where to find this Mississippi information that you keep tooting? DOES anyone else know anything about this Mississippi GUN? WHEN was this Mississippi gun found - why didn't it make the national news?

I try to keep abreast of things like that, but I must have missed that one. WAS it in the news papers or a book or whatever?

Sorry, If you posted a creditable link to that story I didn't see it - Post it again.

Search is your friend. Found this in less than 10 seconds:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3191735;search_string=MLK;#3191735

Sigh...

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[skyjack71 0]

"William Pepper accepted Hamblin's testimony about McCraw's disposal of the rifle over Jowers's claim to Dexter King that he gave the rifle to Raul. Pepper said in his closing argument that the actual murder weapon had been lying "at the bottom of the Mississippi River for over thirty-one years." "


This excert is from the civil trial regarding Jowers claims. This is from the view of one journalist and NO ONE knows who Raul was.

Do you believe Jowers or McCraw or Ray?
Jowers was into this because he had a movie offer - but he didn't make it...he died. I was familiar with this article and because of the other facts in the Ray transcripts - the Mississippi note was garbage and thrown in for the hell of it.

Lewis Garrison (an attorney) is the man who told me about the phone call from CA. It IS in the transcripts.

This article refreshed my memory on his name and I found my notes on our conversation that yr. He and I spoke 2 months before Jowers died.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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[reply
I've posted a link before to the MLK details including the details of the guy who claims he threw the rifle into the Mississippi. Yes, the rifle they had was inconclusive. That is what the conspiracists jumped on as proof that it wasn't the fatal rifle (which was in the Mississippi), and that it may not even have been Ray who fired the fatal shot. Either way it does not tie up with what you had previously implied - that Duane had the rifle that was used. (If you now say that this was not what you were implying then you need to go back and read your post again, the one about Duane getting all upset about a stolen rifle.)

All this is ridiculous anyway. Do you honestly think I can be bothered to go check depositions?

Tell me where you obtained YOUR info about a gun being in the Mississippi? At least it will get me out of YOUR hair for a while. You may not want to check depositions, but I want to know where you got YOUR information.

I think if you read what I posted it DOES NOT state that I know that the gun Duane had was involved - ONLY that a gun of the same type appeared in our home a short time later - just another one of the many co-incidences that keep piling up. I suppose you could say I implied, but it is just me thinking out loud.

NOW, tell me where to find this Mississippi information that you keep tooting? DOES anyone else know anything about this Mississippi GUN? WHEN was this Mississippi gun found - why didn't it make the national news?

I try to keep abreast of things like that, but I must have missed that one. WAS it in the news papers or a book or whatever?



yes, you very clearly "implied". I wasn't the only one who drew that implication.

No-one ever said the gun was found. There was someone who apparently told people he threw it in the river. He is mentioned by name.

Now, if I was to do a Jo, I would get tetchy at this point and point out that I have spelt certain things like the above out already. The difference being that I can actually prove that i have said these things to you already... in fact, it is right there in the bit that you quoted in your email. Perhaps you should read things before you jump to answer them.

As for "creditable" - don't make me laugh. I have no way of knowing whether the source is creditable. It's just something on the internet, right? I suspect it is a lot more "creditable" than some of the stuff that is floating around on this forum. To be honest I don't really care if the source is creditable. The point is that there are many points of view, and there are many other explanations of MLK and Ray and whatever and none of them seem to have anything to do with DB Cooper. (Whether or not they have someting to do with Duane Weber I don't know but I haven't seen any reference to Weber or Collins.) However, I do find it laughable that you dismiss records presented in court yet are happy to pick and choose arbitrary other sources of information... (and yet you claim to be objective). And then you act surprised when people are skeptical about your claimed, selectively used, "well i may or may not have implied something", "coincidences".

Yes Jo no-one nows exactly who Raul (more correctly Raoul) was but there are plenty of people who suggest he was a Portugese immigrant. (There's tons on the net on this, you can do your own search.) Certainly not John Collins. Or are you now going to reveal that Duane was fluent in Portugese and his birth records were faked too?

btw thanks ltdiver for posting the link.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[BigSky 2]

Has this thread become about MLK??? I hope not. Jo I think your time would be better spent trying to prove some of your story about Duane relating to the hijack. Things like….

1. proving he was in the area right before the money was found.

2. proving he lived in the area at one time.

3. The letter you have from him to a friend saying he needed to get away or lay low after the money was found.

This thread is getting way off track. We need to know what Creket found about the money. It may rule out Duane or at least your story about Duane. Then again it may help prove it as well

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[AggieDave 6]

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Has this thread become about MLK??? I hope not. Jo I think your time would be better spent trying to prove some of your story about Duane relating to the hijack.

This is classic conspiracy theorist tactics. Basically once one story starts to unravel, another story starts that is supposed to be loosely related; however, both are woven in a lot of conjecture and lacking in provable facts.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Colson 0]

It is interesting to see how this thread that started as DB Cooper has now grown to include, MLK, bay of pigs, CIA, FBI, Prison breaks....I think JFK has been in here...
It is starting to sound like that 80's billy joel song. There are certainly enough references to many different headline news events.

Im sure he knew Bob Lazar from their work together at S-4....

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Whoa! Bob Lazar…. Now there’s a piece of work.

Isn’t America wonderful? A place where you can be anyone you want to be!

Sluggo_Monster

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[happythoughts 0]

You are just going to have to accept that Duane may have set up J E Ray to take the fall on the MLK shooting.
Duane may have done the deed.

...and what about those unexplained pistol shots in the RFK shooting.

[maurico 0]

Yes we need Ckret to breath some life back into this forum otherwise we just go round and round in circles....

Sluggo, any inside info?

[Ckret 0]

And so I shall Maurico,

Sorry, I have been crazy busy but I did make some progress. We could not find a photo (yet) of the bag used for the money but I was able to confirm it was like the one I posted, a simple money sack.

As for the "shocking " information about the money, I spoke with the individual who carried the money from the bank to the airport the night of the hijacking. When I was talking with him he recounted that they were in the vault running the money through the counting machine and strapping the bundles. I didn't catch it at, first but later in our conversation I caught on to the strapping part and said, "wait a minute." "you were strapping the $20.00 bundles with $2,000 paper straps?" He said "yes" and I almost fell out of my chair.

So I then started putting calls into Brian Ingram. He called me back and we spoke about the discovery of the money. What I found was that the money was not recovered near the water but about 20 to 40 feet from the edge. He said he found it in an area that had recently been covered in water. So I thought, "well not really much of a difference." I then asked for the details about the condition of the money when he found it and he confirmed, after speaking with his parents, that the money absolutely had rubber bands around the bundles. This makes sense because there is no way paper straps would have kept the money together over the years.

So this all means, on face value, that if the money given to Cooper by the bank had paper straps and the found money had rubber bands....... well you could see how I was a bit perplexed. This would mean that either Cooper lived and repackaged the money or someone found the money and repackaged it. Which would be "par for the course" with regard to this case.

I then went back and re-interviewed the bank security manager and found out that he wasn't directly involved in packaging the money, only carrying it to the airport. He was relaying what their normal procedure was for processing and packaging money for shipment.

The funds that were given to Cooper were not pulled from their circulating cash but from a security fund that was prepackaged for these types of incidents. This money was not strapped because the bank did not want any subjects to know where it came from so it was packaged with rubber bands. My head was spinning for a few days until I could get it straight.

As for the "oscillation" explanation that still stands. The crew was referring to the equipment not the pressure bump. In fact, a hand written log that was being kept as the evewnts unfolded has an entry at 8:11 that the crew reported the cabin pressure was "fluctuating."

So the time reported when the crew mentioned the oscillations was when Cooper most likely started down the stairs. The further he got down the stairs the more air would be rushing through the cabin. The pressure bump, which would be when he jumped, occurred (according to Rataczak) 10 to 15 minutes after their last contact with Cooper at 8:05.

[ltdiver 3]

So, the 'rubber band' theory still stands? What was given to Cooper had rubber bands? Or am I hearing you wrong?

Also:

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The further he got down the stairs the more air would be rushing through the cabin.

Perhaps because I'm a skydiver I have to take issue with this statement. And because we fly the DC-9 with the lower stair removed it may alter what they felt that night on the 727.

However, with the rear door open on the DC-9 we DO NOT feel air rushing around us there in the cabin. Perhaps we're desensitized, but I don't think so.

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[BigSky 2]

Damn it!! I thought we were going to rule out the money getting there by nature once and for all.

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Ckret,

Welcome back!

I'm really… really… really glad to see you post again, This place turned into a nut-house while you were gone (as evidenced by my new avatar).

Remember you “owe” me something…. Oh! Wait a minute…. I forgot for a moment that you aren’t my “personal FBI Agent!”
Let me re-phrase that… I was begging for something, and you said you would get it to me. (PM me if you have forgotten what.) But dude! You’re holding up some of the best DB research of the year!

Anyway, glad you’re getting some time to run down stuff on the supremely important, 37 year-old, DB Cooper skyjacking case and aren’t totally bogged down with that bank-robber shit.

I thought about coming to Seattle and Knocking off a USBank branch, just to get to talk with you.
Sluggo_Monster

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[Orange1 0]

Back on this subject, for the whuffo sleuths (and low_pull ) I thought some of the stuff from the World Team '06 site might be interesting.

This is part of the info for skydivers (http://www.theworldteam.com/06PPSkydivers.htm); bear in mind the average # of jumps per participant on these dives was in the thousands.

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The exit can be violent at 130-140 knots. In 2004, World Team sidelined seven skydivers to dislocated shoulders, and one to a broken leg. In addition, several face shields were kicked out and destroyed. All of these incidents occurred on exit when someone hitting the slip stream went unstable and collided with a teammate.

Admittedly Cooper would not have had a teammate to collide with, but a novice or first-time jumper would almost certainly have been unprepared for the "violence" of the exit. Tumbling would have been a very likely outcome. In some of the video on the site you can see how even some of these highly experienced skydivers tumble on exit. I am completely unconvinced that someone who didn't know what they were doing would have had a nice clean stable exit.

(as an aside... looking at the video of those jumps again, awesome. this is the best sport in the world

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[low_pull1 2]

Back on this subject, for the whuffo sleuths (and low_pull ) I thought some of the stuff from the World Team '06 site might be interesting.

This is part of the info for skydivers (http://www.theworldteam.com/06PPSkydivers.htm); bear in mind the average # of jumps per participant on these dives was in the thousands.


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The exit can be violent at 130-140 knots. In 2004, World Team sidelined seven skydivers to dislocated shoulders, and one to a broken leg. In addition, several face shields were kicked out and destroyed. All of these incidents occurred on exit when someone hitting the slip stream went unstable and collided with a teammate.
...........

I/we have launched 8 ways out of C130s....in the 80s

Acceleration was much greater at opening.

[happythoughts 0]

I, and other experienced Jet jumpers, have posted about the exit, turbulence, etc. I have posted pics of our team exit out of a 727.

I don't think that the non-jumpers making statements about the exit are asking questions, merely seeking confirmation for their own personal theory.
Any opinions to the contrary have been disregarded.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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don't think that the non-jumpers making statements about the exit are asking questions, merely seeking confirmation for their own personal theory.
Any opinions to the contrary have been disregarded.

happythoughts, orange1, et al:

Please don’t pick up that big ol’ broad brush and paint all of us “Non-jumpers” (not to be confused with Nun-jumpers) the same dull, muted, and un-inspiring color.

I, for one, have a strong physics background (and hence, have an appreciation for the forces involved), I took unusual attitude training while getting my PP Cert, (and remember how much more confusing it was at night, and that was mild compared to a skydive). I understand the physiology of the inner ear and kinesthetic disorientation. I’ve done the Barany chair demonstration to convince me that my judgment about up and down ain’t worth squat when tumbling.

So, even though I have never experienced it, I can imagine what a terror it would have been for anyone other than an expert. That’s one reason I don’t think Cooper could have been both a novice and survived.

Now, before someone says; “But understanding the forces…blah…bla…bla… isn’t the same as feeling it. Well, you’re definitely right. But, you know, I’ve never felt a Taco-sauce enema, but I can imagine it isn’t pleasant.

Sluggo_Monster

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[normiss 733]

My first jet jump in Rantoul '06 WFFC (the LAST one!?) Jet Jump
I had about 500 jumps at the time and had no clue what to expect for an exit.
Perfectly stable.
It IS possible.

On the other hand...we then tried a gripped exit in winsuits. It took almost a full year for my jaw to recover from getting kicked in the head so hard that it broke my camcorder....and almost my jaw.

[happythoughts 0]

I believe that most of the 727 jumps at Quincy were done at 150mph.

For Cooper, the 727 was going at 200mph.

[jumpin_Jan 1]

Sluggo, I have a question for you.

Based on your studies, what time range would the exit need to be to put DBC in the watershed upstream of the money? would 20:20 PST do it?

re: et al
Not to worry, I use psychedelic paint on my wide brush.
:)


PULL!
jumpin_Jan

"Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

[jumpin_Jan 1]

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I believe that most of the 727 jumps at Quincy were done at 150mph.

Correct.
Exceptions were first pass ever @ 208 kts and in the following years there were a few high speed passes made.


PULL!
jumpin_Jan

"Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

[377 21]

I once made a C 130 high speed exit at well over 200 knots. I tumbled wildly and I mean W I L D L Y. A better jumper could have stayed stable, but I'd bet heavily that Cooper did what I did. It is very disorienting. At night in cold rainy weather it would be far far worse.

When I jumped the DC 9-21 at WFFC there was a very small but perceivable acoustic pressure blip as each jumper exited. Sort of a whoosh. Could have just been a bump of slipstream air deflected back into the opening as the jumpers transitioned from the hull to outside. Not sure of the explanation, but I could have been blindfolded and been able to accurately count the exits. Any other jet jumpers concur?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[AggieDave 6]

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Exceptions were first pass ever @ 208 kts and in the following years there were a few high speed passes made

I've always heard that a couple of jumpers suffered injuries on that first pass due to the speed they hit that wind at. Is there any truth to that? I heard about a dislocated knee and a dislocated shoulder.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."