gale 0 #1 October 7, 2002 Ok, so I can't land. I admit it. Canopies confuse me. Yeah, pull right toggle go right, left toggle go left, both flare...but it still seems a mystery. I'm flying a Manta 288 and I can't stand a landing. I'm really started to get upset about it too. My landings aren't dangerous, I'm not limping off the field or anything, but I'm just not standing. I've even landed downwind without any problems. Part of this is fear on my end, I'm scared of hurting myself (jump #11, bad sprain - flared high and I didn't PLF) But I really don't know if it's a standable landing until I'm on the ground saying to myself "I could have stood that with a step or two". What do I do? I can't jump anything smaller until I get better, and I seem to be stuck. We only have these rigs to jump and they are 8 years old with I don't know how many jumps on them. Other then that there is a Call Ralf 210 and a Hornet 190. (A bit of a "jump" wouldn't you say?) I'm in the process of buying a Tri220 (this will still give me a less then 1 to 1 wing loading) for myself but I can't jump it until I get better. HELP! GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 October 7, 2002 QuoteI can't land. Not with an attitude like that little missy! Gale -- You can land -- you just need a little help to get you to understand some stuff and then practice so that you can apply it. Unfortunately, you probably -can't- get that over the internet. People can give you a few little tips and things, but without seeing what you're actually doing, they're probably just going to be guessing and might confuse you a whole lot more. What you really need to do is grab a coach at your DZ -- maybe the chief instructor or S&TA -- and sort of sweet-talk your way into having them part with some of their time and coaching in exchange for a beer or two. Don't go for any quick-fix suggestions -- make them explain what does what and how everything works until you understand it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #3 October 7, 2002 You can do it - if I can stand up landings, you can too! Have your next couple of landings videotaped. Get with an instructor and have them watch the video and tell you what you're doing right/wrong. Also, something you can do at home, at work, etc - visualize yourself standing up your next landing. If you ever find yourself replaying the last bad landing in your head, "change the channel" and see yourself doing it exactly right. Do this over and over between now and your next jump. It may sound silly, but it really works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #4 October 7, 2002 QuoteHave your next couple of landings videotaped. This is so important.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gale 0 #5 October 8, 2002 Ah, I have an attitude problem! OK, yes, you're right. I need to try to be more positive. I'm just getting discouraged. And yes, I know coaching in person is important, it's just that when I ask my coaches about it, they don't really have anything to say! (I've been doing coach dives recently.) I guess I'll try to wrangle someone new into helping me. I wish I lived near a place where there were canopy control classes but there's nothing like that in Canada (that I know of). Gale I'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #6 October 8, 2002 Gale, listen to your peers, do not "Try"..."Do"...Get video of your landings and a coach specifically for the landings. Money,beer,jumptickets,uuuummm favors...whatever it takes,be aggressive girl! ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skip 0 #7 October 8, 2002 You know I used to suck at landings myslef. I'm still not great but I'm getting there. I used to bif in EVERY landing I made, and then one day someone here on Dropzone.com said to look at the horizion instead of at the ground. So the next jump I looked out towards the horizion and not the ground, I wasnt sure what exactially I was looking for out there in the horizion However I landed on my feet and have continued to on every jump sense. You might check out where you are focusing you attention apon final. Just a thought. .:skip Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #8 October 8, 2002 QuoteBut I really don't know if it's a standable landing until I'm on the ground saying to myself "I could have stood that with a step or two" How many of those standable landings are you getting in a row? If all of them are standable how bout giving it a shot and try to stand the next landing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #9 October 8, 2002 Sounds like everyone is hacked off with your whining. Jumping a huge great tablecloth like that I'm amazed you manage to fall over. Start giving yourself some positive self talk (I am great at landing canopies, landings are easy, I always stand up my landings etc.) Check the brake lines under canopy to make sure they aren't too long for you to flare (should be a foot or so bulging at the back of the canopy - wrap the lines around your hands once or twice to take up any more slack than that or your arms wont be long enough). Practice plenty of flares on your way down and finish with a really nice smooth flare for your landing - that your are great at because you find them so easy etc. etc. - keep looking in front of you, chest forward (toilet position isn't cool!) and just land or walk a step or two if you need to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chief 0 #10 October 8, 2002 Gale: Ito took me longer then I thought it should have to stand up my landings. The suggestion of video taping your landing is excellent. Once I saw video of my landings, the problem was extremely clear to me. Do not get discouraged, you can do it. It took me a while to get it, but good things take time. Do not go for a quick fix. Get the basics of flaring and once youhave that, it is like riding a bike; youdon't forget! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #11 October 8, 2002 If your landing have been safe, soft and accurate on that Manta, even if you're not standing them up, you might want to try another canopy anyway. Those big Manta's can be ragged out with crappy flare potential. I was landing much better when I switched from student gear to a spectre at just under 1:1. I couldn't believe how much easier it was to judge my flare and stand it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #12 October 8, 2002 I could never land the old 288 mantas.... I hated them, when we finaly got new student gear it was like night and day, i was able to land the 220 with no problems.... Hang in there...HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #13 October 8, 2002 Gale, You did not say how much you weight. A huge Manta with a tiny student hanging underneath it does not really flare, it just "mushes" towards the ground, usually slow enough to stand up. I could spend the next three pages speculating about what you are doing wrong, but you would be better off asking Sean or Al to video-tape your next few landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #14 October 8, 2002 Quote You did not say how much you weight. He's making a pass at you. Be careful.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gale 0 #15 October 9, 2002 Ok, I'm not sure what "hacked out" means but I assume you're saying I'm whiney. Sorry, didn't mean to be. I know we all have platueas, but when you can't stand landings everyone knows about it. I'm enbarassed and thus I find it hard to be really agressive in getting help. They're calling for sun this weekend (and they better be right, damn it) so I've got three days before then to think positively, and try to get less embarassed. Tuesday I will post what happened, and hopefully it will be all good! Thanks to everyone who gave me advice (and those who PMed me too). GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #16 October 9, 2002 It bothers me that almost no attention is paid to landings in AFF. This is where the majority of injuries occur these days (yes I am counting low turns/swooping). There is such focus on free-fall, and almost none on landing. Two of the three injuries I've gotten from skydiving were landing related (one bruised tailbone and one sprained ankle). Does anyone else agree that special coaching should take place in AFF for landings? Unless you have a gift for landing, then you've probably had a least one minor injury. I didn't even start to learn to land until about jump #50. Prior to that, it was a lot of unfortunate intimacy with dirt.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #17 October 9, 2002 Hacked out = worn out, pourus, leaky, etc Hacked out canopies are good for the first and few jumps on student status where the JM's are more conserned about having you land safe then stand up. Once you end your student program if the canopy is F-111 with more then 500-600 jumps the canopy will show its age and lose flare power, you will notice it then.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #18 October 9, 2002 >Does anyone else agree that special coaching should take place in > AFF for landings? Or shortly thereafter. Check out the ISP for their canopy training stuff. I would like to see more (like a planned progression to smaller canopies) but it's a good start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #19 October 9, 2002 Wasn't hacked out, it was hacked off which means "bored and fed up with" here in the UK. Good luck at the weekend - sure you will do brilliantly! Bob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #20 October 9, 2002 I feel for you.....it seems a lot student problems with landing occour under old Mantas at least thats what I percieve on this forum. In addition to all the other suggestions I will offer this. You said you would land and then realize you could have stood it up, which leads me to this exercise. you need an open field perfereblay soft with some place that is a couple of feet higher then the rest (you could do this in a parking lot but cement is hard). Now jump of the higher part a few times if your comfortable jump higher. what this would do is get you used to seeing what is comfortable to stand up. Ideally you could then start jogging/running of the higher part of the field and if you land wrong then you PLF. Again the whole point of this is to teach your body what is an acceptable speed/descent to stand up so that your not. I don't know if this helps but it seems that the physical landing is the one thing that is kind of ignored in student training. Were taught how to crash but nothing is really said about landing correctly or maybe I missed something Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #21 October 9, 2002 IN REPLY______________________ >Does anyone else agree that special coaching should take place in AFF for landings? Or shortly thereafter. I wholeheartedly agree that students should have more training in landing at some point. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #22 October 10, 2002 It's part of the ISP, and if it is followed, these weaknesses are identified, and someone should (an instructor) be giving corrective training. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emartin 0 #23 October 10, 2002 Quote Ok, so I can't land. I admit it. my name is elizabeth martin and i don't land well either. we're talking i've only landed well on about 30 out of 230 jumps. nazis, please don't go all crazy on me ...i am extraordinarily skilled at PLFing and am also aggresively addressing my skill and mental issues... i'm only trying to make you feel a little better, gale...you're not alone and the feeling of embarrassment may be lessened when you realize that some of your friends who come in perfect every time with either straight in or carved approaches don't know how or are scared to PLF. i like to look at the positive side of negative situations...you're not a terrible biffer! you're an expert PLF-er! i've had many, many conversations and video taped landings and people giving advice...i've read the thread here and i have to say from a LOT of not standing up experience (anybody from asc here? you know what i'm talking about!) it's 99.99999% MENTAL. without a doubt. the other 0.00001% is something physical like not finishing the flare, not flaring with the right timing, etc. the coaching should address these issues. the visualization advice is spot on. i've a handful of stellar landings (people came to me and said things like, "killer swoop, beth!" me? imagine that. who knew?) and the characteristic they all share is positive visualization as mental preparation. skybitch and bobsoutar are speaking the gospel. this is the key...positive thinking builds confidence, confidence enhances performance. i look at it like an opportunity to overcome another fear (something we all did when we began skydiving) but this time it's not the fear of getting out, it's getting down. try very diligently to be positive about everything you think about your landings. feel free to pm me if you'd like to relate to a fellow member of the PLF club or would like any help from someone right up your alley. have a great time this weekend! beth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ducky 0 #24 October 10, 2002 Hey emartin, I jump at ASC and I caught the reference, but not sure I follow. I do know a jumper there who didn't stand a landing until his 140th or so. Just a mental block w/ slight physical hold backs. kwakSometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canopydave 0 #25 October 10, 2002 I do agree with the thought of trying another "student approved" canopy. Also, get video, get video and ummm oh, by the way, get video of your landings... How are your canopy skills otherwise? If you pick a spot to land while sitting up at 2000 feet, do you come close? (Don't confuse that with "hitting the X." Pick your OWN "X" and hit that instead.) Do you understand the accuracy trick, flat turns etc? I had some trouble with landings, due to being nearly blind in one eye. Depth perception for me is non-existent so it was fairly exciting landing, till I got the knack of it. Do not be ashamed to ask for help. Nothing scares me more than a jumper who does not ask for assistance. All true Skydivers will be glad to assist you and will not make you feel embarassed. On the contrary they should make you feel welcome, just be sure to get coaching from someone capable... Not just some scmuck that is typing away on the internet. My guess is in a few jumps, you'll be shooting accuracy with the best of 'em. Dave A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
