Hook Turns

[frogslapper 0]

#1. How do you do a hook turn?
#2. How do you do a hook turn without killing yourself?
#3. Can you make a regular slider into a colapsable slider?

Thanks

[wmw999 2,121]

This is not a question to ask on the internet. Really. You might ask how to perfect something, after posting what you're already doing. But even then it's best to have a good pilot & instructor watch you and teach you.

I don't know if there's a canopy control class at San Diego, but I know there's one at Elsinore, and probably Perris.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skymedic 0]

this is one of those.....if ya need to ask things... give it a couple hundred more skydives and then ask people at your DZ that you trust. BillVon jumps out there. ask him on canopy piloting advice. then move on.

and the best way to do not get killed hooking...is to simply not do it. no law says you have to hook turn.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Tonto 1]

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#1. How do you do a hook turn?

Very carefully

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#2. How do you do a hook turn without killing yourself?

Very carefully

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#3. Can you make a regular slider into a colapsable slider?

Yes. Pull it down over your toggles, and stow it with Velcro, wrap it up in your goggles etc.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[whocares 0]

29 jumps and you want to know about hook turns?
Not a good idea. If that is your focus i will be reading about you in a different section on this site in the future.

That is like saying, hey just learned how to drive, i am ready for indy.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Step 1: Ask about flat turns
Step 2: Practice flat turns

Too many people know more about hook turns than flat turns. I want to see DZ's teaching flat turns on their AFF courses. I know some do but not nearly enough.

[rhino 0]

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29 jumps and you want to know about hook turns?
Not a good idea.

I disagree.. Nothing is wrong with him knowing the direction and beginning his course of study. I knew at 36 jumps that I wanted to swoop.

Good for him asking the question. This site is a great place to at least get good information on the subject.

Rhino

[whocares 0]

I disagree.. Nothing is wrong with him knowing the direction and beginning his course of study. I knew at 36 jumps that I wanted to swoop. ***

I agree. Asking and doing are two different things.
So are you wanting to do hook turns already?

[Tonto 1]

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I disagree.. Nothing is wrong with him knowing the direction and beginning his course of study. I knew at 36 jumps that I wanted to swoop.

And if the 400 jumps posted in your profile is correct, you may have a long way to go to prove that what you do is "safe."

Does this ring a bell?

Male, 1-6 years in the sport
150-1500 jumps
Big ego-arrogant
Poor landings, close calls
Warned by S&TA and staff Would not listen/take instruction

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[winsor 186]

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#1. How do you do a hook turn?

Definitions vary, but hooking can mean failing to complete a hard turn before arrival. The best way to back yourself into a corner such that you impact under a perfectly good canopy usually inolves burying a toggle when too low to recover.

If you're interested in high-performance landings, a front-riser turn may allow you to bail if you realize that completing the turn is not possible. By letting go of the riser your turn flattens out, and you can maybe dig yourself out of the corner with brakes.

You still have the potential to come to grief with a front-riser turn, but at least there's a Plan B with which to work.

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#2. How do you do a hook turn without killing yourself?

Again defining a hook as a turn wherein the planet gets in the way, survival is a function of angle of incidence, speed and the material against which you decelerate. If you're going 80 miles an hour vertically when you hit, you really need to have something like a 30 foot high pile of foam pillows in front of you to have much of a chance.

If you can bring it up to about a 30 degree angle at highway speeds, I've seen people get away with not much more than a smashed femur or two. With a butt strike you stand the chance of a crunched pelvis and some smooshed lower lumbar vertebrae and/or blown disks (just for starts).

Even if you can level it out, remember to keep flying. People have snapped their necks with the rude face-plant that comes with letting go of the toggles at speed. Being a quadraplegic is not my idea of a good time.

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#3. Can you make a regular slider into a colapsable slider?

Sure, any rigger worth his (her) salt can modify a sail slider to either a kill-line or velcro-wrap collapsible in short order. It's useful to have mini-risers and big enough grommets to get past the links and toggles, since getting the slider out of the breeze helps greatly, whether you collapse it or not.


Blue skies,

Winsor

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[AggieDave 6]

Rhino is not your average 400jump jumper. He has less freefall time then most serious CReW dogs and just about as much canopy time with instruction as people have freefall time.

Albite what you said is correct Tanto, Rhino isn't your average case.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mikemc 0]

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I want to see DZ's teaching flat turns on their AFF courses

Good point, I didnt know about flat turns. I thought a very slow one toggle turn was a flat turn. I now have my leg in plaster broke my heel.

I will be using rental gear for a bit when I go back and practice flat turns over and over.

I got blew off course on my final leg, which normally I would follow the new direction, but I was now facing trees. I had no choice but to turn. I turned very slowly keeping canopy level and when I finished the ground was THERE and I didnt have time to flare.

[Shadowplay 0]

Can you go to these canopy control classes without owning your own rig? I'm not planning on buying my first rig until next Spring and I've never been to a canopy class but I want to go as soon as I'm done with AFF. I'm not even sure what the class entails..

[SAMPLEKSample 0]

Im still a rookie, but raised in this sport around swoopers, so i know enough to say that you shouldnt be considering doing hook turns until you are a pro under your canopy and get serious training, after watching and watching and watching....please be careful
There is an amazing canopy school at PerrisYou can learn about canopy flying whenever, but there is so much for you to learn far before all that...
and you wouldnt go through the typical school until you can get up there and practice what your learning.

[Ron 7]

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I disagree.. Nothing is wrong with him knowing the direction and beginning his course of study.

Agreed "begin with the end in mind".

However while it may be good to know where you want to go....DOING it with 20 jumps is not a good idea.

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I knew at 36
jumps that I wanted to swoop.

Yes, but you are weird as hell....Can fly a canopy, but has the RW skill of an AFF student.

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Good for him asking the question. This site is a great place to at least get good information on the subject.

I don't agree on this...This place may tell you tips and tricks..and most importantly point into the correct direction....You can't learn skydiving over the internet.

He needs to talk with his instructors at his DZ or take a canopy course.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rhino 0]

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Yes, but you are weird as hell....Can fly a canopy, but has the RW skill of an AFF student.

bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!.. LOL

Ask the Bytch if I can fly on my belly

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I don't agree on this...This place may tell you tips and tricks..and most importantly point into the correct direction....You can't learn skydiving over the internet.

That's all fine and dandy.. I have yet to take a canopy course. If ANYONE really wants to know how to fly a canopy they must SEEK that information. They must formulate an action plan based off of the guise of the one they want to emulate. In my case it was hook. At least half of the iformation I have from him was from the internet.

Their is a wealth of knowledge on here.

Rhino

[billvon 2,400]

>Can you go to these canopy control classes without owning your own rig?

Not recommended. Once you start really learning to fly a canopy, it's better to stick with one canopy that you know well. A front riser manuever that works well under a Safire 149 can kill you under a Stiletto 150. So unless you have one rig that is always available for you to borrow I'd wait.

[rhino 0]

I agree with Bill...

I would also recommend that a new jumpers first canopy be a seven cell..

Rhino

[poohbeer 0]

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I would also recommend that a new jumpers first canopy be a seven cell..

Why is that?

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[AggieDave 6]

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would also recommend that a new jumpers first canopy be a seven cell..

I would argue against that, though. Some 7-cells are very nice canopies, but IMHO most 9-cells have a more forgiving flare point, you can screw it up and have more of a chance to pull it out. Since that is what most low-timers screw up on (proper flare/correct flare altitude), I would say a good/modern 9-cell would be a better choice.

But once again, that's just my opinion.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rhino 0]

For many reasons..

Slow speed flight.. Your stall speeds tend to be lower under seven cells than 9.

Accuracy.. Easier when you can sink in and not worrying about your canopy stalling and dropping you to the ground. 7 cells allow you to do this.

Learning and getting comfortable with flying in deep brakes. Again seven cells have a lower stall speed and can sink more safely.

Sinking.

Flat turns. Can practically be done in place under a lightly loaded seven cell. They can be done as well under a nine but I am referencing what I feel is safer and easier to learn with where a new pilot is concerned.

Holding in brakes.

Stopping quickly on the ground. Shutting the canopy down.

Granted you can do these with a 9 cell but for the beginner it is much much safer under a seven cell canopy.

Lower loaded seven cell canopies are more solid in wind and chop. This allows the pilot to build confidence.

Seven cell canopies land different. From my experience they require a different energy for nice landings then a nine cell. It is nice to build that capability into your muscle memory. This will be usefull when you finally jump your reserve.

My Triathlon and Diablo's for example. They landed o.k. straight in but with about 10% extra energy they landed VERY nicely. Without that energy it was hit or miss. In my experience the hit or miss tends to happen more under a seven cell than a nine. Hit or miss being sometimes you flare and the canopy decides not to respond. I flared on occasion under the Triathlon on a hot, moist Texas day and it really didn't do anything.

For a lightly loaded canopy I feel seven cells are twice as safe as nine.

I have yet to see a seven cell canopy fold in chop. I have seen a falcon and sabres do it on multiple occasions.

Hope this gives you an idea.

Rhino

[AggieDave 6]

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Flat turns. Can practically be done in place under a lightly loaded seven cell. They can be done as well under a nine but I am referencing what I feel is safer and easier to learn with where a new pilot is concerned

I disagree with you on this too.

In my experience, 7-cells have a steeper/quicker turn then 9-cells.

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I have yet to see a seven cell canopy fold in chop. I have seen a falcon and sabres do it on multiple occasions.

There are many many other variables here besides just the difference between 7-cells and 9-cells.

Although, I agree that there are some good 7-cell canopies, I don't agree with your reasoning.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ron 7]

7 cells are more forgiving than many 9 cells.

It has to do with the aspect ratio.

I have found most 7 cells are more forgiving of mistakes than 9 cells.

I would recomend any number of canopies....9 cell and 7 cell. The important thing is for the 9 cell to not be elliptical, and neither to be highly loaded.

And to have a stepped progression to the higher WL's.

To not change to many things at once (Don't go from a 1.3 7 cell to a 1.6 Elliptical 9 cell.)

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AggieDave 6]

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7 cells are more forgiving than many 9 cells.

Mistakes where? On flaring? On turning low?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ron 7]

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Mistakes where? On flaring? On turning low?

Both depending on what you are comparing to.

The Specter 107 I jumped turned slower than the Stiletto 107 on toggles, but did lose more altitude than the Stiletto.

But the Sabre lost more altitude than the Specter in a turn.

The Specter had a more forgiving flare than both canopies.

So for turns it went Specter, Saber, Stiletto.

And for diving it went Stiletto, Specter, Sabre.

I would recomend a Specter or Sabre to a guy looking for a first rig...Not the Stiletto. But if the guy was marginal with canopies I would suggest the Specter.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334