tandems / HIV

[GroundZero 0]

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Contracting it by being stuck by an infected needle is only 3 per 1000 injuries. A splash in the eye only has 1-1000 risk of contracting

I've had almost 3000 jumps with no reserve use... do I leave the reserve on the ground because of that... NO.

This sport has risks and we all accept the risks, but we know the risks involved. To not know the risk is similar to russian roulette. Let your DZO know and make a decision as to how you will proceed. To hide the risk from anyone is immoral. Would I take a student tandem... no, I would increase his risk to exposure. Would you? Depends on whether or not that person knew his/her total risks.

Skydiving instruction is all about the student, not about the instructor. We should give the student the best experience possible....

Sorry... but true.

Best wishes friend, I mean that sincerely. Think about the student's best interests too.

[Casquito 0]

It's all relative... look at the world we live in.
Again, I'm more afraid of catching other diseases than getting HIV.
Since we're quoting references, here's the MMWR on Hep C for example.

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/rr/rr4719.pdf

Sounds scarier to me. At least we have meds that work for HIV.
And they're saying the estimate the Hep B prevalence is 10x higher among health care workers...
Maybe we shouldn't go to the hospital either.

[PhreeZone 15]

>Maybe we should tell everyone with hepatitis to report their condition to the DZO.

We had a TM that gave up doing tandems due to a Hepatitis infection he recieved from a tattoo. The risk to the students he felt out weighted the benifit to him. It is about the student and their safety not the instructors.

Its perfered on a tandem to injure the TM then the student at all costs.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Jimbo 0]

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Its perfered on a tandem to injure the TM then the student at all costs.

But if the TM is injured, how is he going to injure the student? I think that the TM should injure the student first, then hit himself in the leg with a very large hammer, or maybe stab their leg with a knife.

Really, all these injuries might be bad for business. Maybe we should try to keep everyone healthy.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhreeZone 15]

I was refereing to a botched landing Granted I perfer to surf the students that don't pick up their feet rather then try and take that impact myself.

At the very least I would expect someone would include info like this on their medical waiver.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[atsaubrey 0]

{{{{{vibes}}}}
I could use some coach jumps and would be more than happy to do them with you. I have to agree on the tandem thing though....I dont think I would do a tandam in the unlikely event shit hit the fan.

"GOT LEAD?"

[marcandalysse 0]

TROLL!
Anybody know this guy?
I could understand no identifying info, but this was his first and only post. "deadboy2004", have you posted to dz.com under another name? Or is this your first visit?

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first of all, I have to admit that I deserve all the shit that can be heaped on me because of my stupidity. I did it to myself and will live with it for the rest of my life.

I know several people with HIV, some best friends died from it, yet I never heard them talk like this:

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I deserve all the shit that can be heaped on me because of my stupidity

And why give up skydiving unless incapacitated? And why stop being a tandem instructor?

Sorry if I sound heartless, but this doesn't sound right!

mp

[jeremyneas 0]

The first thing I thought of and hasn't been addressed is, how do the medications make you feel?

I don't jump, much less do a working jump if i take Tylonol Cold and Flu, because occasionally (every hour) it kicks in, and gets me dizzy for a few minutes. I can't imagine what that triple cocktail does. But maybe it doesn't do anything, I have no experience with it.

I think, that if your taking any type of medication that, even for a few minutes, makes you woozy you should not be in the air, especially around students.

Aooowww, almost sounds like NBC's 'The more you know' commercial.

[scottjaco 0]

Maybe this is a Troll, but I don't blame him for using
a new identity with no personal info.

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I know several people with HIV, some best friends died from it, yet I never heard them talk like this:

maybe this guy really liked to party? Maybe he is paying the price and feels he deserves what happened it him?

It would be pretty lame if this was all a hoax!

[HeatherB 0]

(This was meant towards marcandalysse, but as I was writing this, the post was deleted.)

Troll or not (I don't think it is one), it still brings up a subject that ppl obviously have very different opinions about.

I've heard many ppl beat themselves up for not using protection, either resulting in pregnancy or a disease, or even just *scaring* them into thinking they might be pregnant or have a disease, and I don't think it is unrealistic for a tandem instructor who has HIV to question continuing to do tandems. Should you give up all your hobbies? No. Should you try to live life to the fullest? YES. But you also have to consider the safety and concerns of the students.

I would probably quit doing tandems if I were in your shoes, b/c I would be paranoid about the students' safety, even if the odds are so slim. I would continue to skydive as long as I felt healthy, but would let the DZ manager/owner and a few friends know I had HIV, in case I had an accident.

[deadboy2004 0]

this is no troll!

My life is now shattered because of something stupid that I did. I know better - we all "knew better" after the fact. Not careful just one time can do it. Doesn't excuse me for what is happening to me. I just found out about this last friday, and had it confirmed with another test thru another agency. I got the second result today. Figured that I didn't need to go for 3 out of 5 tests. My head is pounding from the rise in blood pressure that I am experiencing - I can't sleep at night, I hear a sad song and break into tears. I am afraid to talk to my friends - the straight ones don't know anything about my private life - and I'm afraid that the gay ones won't want to be around me. Right now I'm going thru a major period of feeling all alone and lost. I'm afraid to tell my straight friends - cause let's face it, I've seen some well liked skydivers come out of the closet - be snubbed and never heard from again. Believe me, this is no troll. It is just not the way I want to come out this. I just feel like I need to talk to someone and right now I don't feel like I have a whole lot of someones out there.

I love doing tandems. I love being around the people that just landed and watching them puff up with pride that they did something that many of their friends were afraid to do. I love being part of that feeling. It is more than likely that I will give up doing tandems - actually yesterday was the first day I even thought about that aspect of this shit disease - my first concern has always been for my tandem passengers.

All the post here have been supportive so far - even yours in a way. At least you just raised the issue of doubt instead of coming right out and slamming me. I appreciate and will listen to what everyone says here.
thanks

[PhreeZone 15]

Personally... look at doing Tandem videos, all most all the same energy off the student, no risk to the student.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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It's all relative... look at the world we live in.
Again, I'm more afraid of catching other diseases than getting HIV.
Since we're quoting references, here's the MMWR on Hep C for example.

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/rr/rr4719.pdf

Sounds scarier to me. At least we have meds that work for HIV.
And they're saying the estimate the Hep B prevalence is 10x higher among health care workers...
Maybe we shouldn't go to the hospital either.

Hep C is very nasty. My father is seeing it's effects and has been for years. My mother has lived with the disease for longer than i've been alive and it is still inactive. She gave birth to me and I was lucky to not get the disease. She didn't even know she had it. I have a cousin who has the disease as well, early 20s, no effects as of yet. I know that HIV can also remain inactive for a while (not sure of specific time), but I am not sure i'd rather have that than hep c, seeing as how I know people with hep c who don't even have effects yet.

Either way. I'm not certain of my opinion here. But, personally, as a tandem student, I'd probably not want to risk it. This may sound ignorant, and it may be ignorant. But, knowing that the TM could slam into the back of my head, break skin, bleed from his mouth on me, and me possibly have to worry about HIV, is just terrible. Although, I suppose that is the chance you take with anyone, really, isn't it. You don't know what anyone has. Some people have this disease and don't even know it. But, since this person knows, maybe he should find an alternate way to make $$, and still just make fun jumps. You shouldn't have to tell the people you jump with that you have HIV, and people should always use precaution when treating injuries of others, so I think that is almost a moot point.

Angela.

[AndyMan 7]

I would keep that tidbit of information to yourself, and only reveal it if medically necesary. 99% of the time quite simply it is nobodys business but your own.

I would keep jumping and instructing in the sport that you love.

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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maybe this guy really liked to party? Maybe he is paying the price and feels he deserves what happened it him?

I don't think ANYONE no matter WHAT they did deserves this! It is an evil thing that became widespread (first documented case 80s?). This would not have happened if he was doing what he did 60 years ago, does that mean that people back then deserved this? It may be an effect of things he did, but does not mean he deserves it. Yes, we are aware. Yes, we all need to be careful and take precaution. We know that if one does contract the disease it could likely have been prevented. But, does this mean that people who aren't careful deserve to die a horrible death? No, I don't think it does.

Hang in there DB. Try to stay healthy and active, and live life to the fullest. You just never know when a cure may be found.

Angela.

[marcandalysse 0]

Sorry everybody, I guess I didn't delete my post quickly enough...I had pm'd a greenie stating my questioning and I should have left it at that rather than posting. Your name and statements had shocked me alot.

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I love being around the people that just .... puff up with pride that they did something that many of their friends were afraid to do. I love being part of that feeling

I totally understand and feel the same way. And I suggest that in a few days you look in the mirror and tell yourself that you can and will continue to contribute to the strength and wonder of living life the fullest you can, in any circumstance. Hang in there and best wishes.

mp

[Tonto 1]

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Don't give up jumping.
Don't give up tandems.
Don't take any shit from anyone.
You don't have to tell anyone.

As quoted above, the HIV transmission rates are far below 1% with a needle stick. Not just a needlestick, but a USED, HOLLOW needle that was used in a blood vessel (not subcutaneously or intramuscularly) that penetrates deep enough into the skin to draw blood. Just for comparison, the transmission rates for hepatitis B and C are orders of magnitude higher, yet you don't see people refusing to jump with someone who has hepatitis. Hell, most people would shrug their shoulders and not even care. Why the big deal about HIV? It's the social stigma attached to it, borne of ignorance and fear.
I work in the the ER and see far more people dying of hepatitis than HIV. Personally, I'd rather get stuck with a needle from an HIV infected patient than someone with hepatitis.
Transmitting it to your tandem student: pretty unlikely. You'd both have to have open wounds that are protruding through the suits. And if it happens, they can always take antiviral meds prophylactically to reduce the transmission rate from slim to infintesimal. Do you want to sacrifice your skydiving career and potentially make yourself an outcast by telling everyone (since from the responses to your question in this forum seem to confirm the popular misconception of the disease).
As far as telling people, I wouldn't. It's none of their business. If they're worried about contracting some disease, they shouldn't be helping people. It's a risk you take. Besides, they should be using universal precautions anyway and using gloves.
Even so, if you augered in and needed my help immediately, I'd help you, with or without gloves any day brother.

Joe N.

My thoughts exactly. If by some small chance you do end up bleeding into your student's open wound - and I havn't seen that in 19 years of skydiving - then tell them so they can choose to get antiretrovirals. Otherwise - mum's the word.

I admire your courage and honesty.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[mnischalke 0]

Dude, whatever you and your dzo decide is between you and them.

I do have a problem with your screenname. Is your corpse posting this evening? Jesus. You are alive today. Tomorrow you might not be--HIV or no.

Go skydive or something. Fretting over it ain't gonna do you a bit of good.

Nobody gets out of this shithole alive, we might as well make the best of the fleeting moments we got here.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[rhino 0]

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It is about the student and their safety not the instructors.

Bullseye......

[bch7773 0]

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If by some small chance you do end up bleeding into your student's open wound - and I havn't seen that in 19 years of skydiving - then tell them so they can choose to get antiretrovirals. Otherwise - mum's the word.

I think that HIV is not like rabies, and so you can't just take anti-viral medicine right after infection and be ok. Once you get it, you have it forever, at least, with the medicines we have presently.

Just personally, I would feel pretty angry if I was a person doing a tandem, had a problem and some blood got spilled (bad landing perhaps), and suddenly I have a lifelong disease. In today's world, a TM and the DZ could be sued for a lot of money if something like this occurred (and yes, I know its a 1000 to 1 chance)

my advice is to talk with your DZO, so in case you get injured, he can make sure everyone takes the proper precautions. and perhaps just take up AFF instructing, or as someone else suggested, tandem videos. but you shouldn't need to tell just other people at your DZ.

also, you may want to take the test again man... I have heard about some people that got like 3 false-positives, then took it some more and discovered they never really had it. you might be one of those people.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[rhino 0]

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If by some small chance you do end up bleeding into your student's open wound - and I havn't seen that in 19 years of skydiving

I've seen it.. Only been jumping for 6 years.. I've also seen people go after someone in need that was spurting blood in every direction getting drenched from head to toe..

It is unfortunate that the gentleman starting this post is HIV +. I will say this. I would bet serious money that a cure is either already here and in testing or right around the corner. Look at Magic Johnson.. No traces of the HIV virus are even in his system. He's been HIV+ for YEARS.

You must maintain HOPE.. Be confident that a cure is coming.. You can even pitch in to an organization looking for a cure. Maybe that will make you feel better.. Never give up hope..

Rhino

[GravityGirl 0]

Have you thought of putting a camera on your head?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Tonto 1]

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I think that HIV is not like rabies, and so you can't just take anti-viral medicine right after infection and be ok.

I think you're wrong. I didn't say anti viral. I said anti retroviral. If you never get it - you can't have it forever, can you? That's what antiretrovirals do. They help minimise the chance of HIV infection after exposure.

Anti -pref opposed to; counteracting

retrovirus -n RNA virus forming DNA during replication

virus -n organisim capable of causing desease

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Tonto 1]

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I've seen it

Yeah? But you also KNEW there were WMD's in Iraq, so you may be off the mark on a cure for HIV being just around the corner too...

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I said I had not seen it happen. I also said that if it did happen, that that person should be told so that they could get antiretroviral treatment.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[piisfish 135]

Shit.
Hate that.
Concerning the tandem, I would talk about it to other tandem masters, DZO etc, and see what they think about it.
When you hae a problem, or something that can lead to serious trouble, you have to let people know. And in this case I'm certain it is not easy at all.
Specially if people around are not "open minded", or simply comprehensive.
~~~~~~~VIBES~~~~~~

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM