NoRules 0 #1 June 7, 2004 Don't freak out... I'm not thinking just yet! But what's a good rule of thumb for how much experience someone should have before jumping with a camera? Thanks ~ * Life Has No Rules * ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 June 7, 2004 200 jumps and a USPA C-Licence is recommended. See USPA SIM Section 6-8.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRules 0 #3 June 7, 2004 what kind of stuff should i work on to better prepare myself? you know, like is practicing more belly flying a good idea? ~ * Life Has No Rules * ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #4 June 7, 2004 Depends on what kind of camera flying you want to do. A good rule of thumb (and there are many) is for whatever discipline your filming (rw/freefly), be able to fly that way it without thinking.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #5 June 7, 2004 What kind of camera flying do you want to do? Short term? Long term?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #6 June 7, 2004 I worried about flying my body first. And then when I felt comfortable with my flight And felt the need to capture what I saw I started flying camera.... about 400 jumps for me ( your milage and desire may vary). It is still on less than a third of the jumps I do, all fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #7 June 7, 2004 Quote It is still on less than a third of the jumps I do, all fun. This is a good balance. Wish more cameraflyer-want-to-be's would take your advice and develop as flyers before mounting a camera on their head. It makes for a more complete and fun adventure! Some days, fly camera....other days touch people! I actually feel sorry for those who have boxed themselves into a corner and only know one discipline (camera). Must be a rather lonely existence to ONLY be a voyeur your entire skydiving career. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #8 June 7, 2004 My #1 Rule of thumb for camera flyers, dont film a jump you shouldn't be on without a camera. If you cant fly good enough to be on a 20 way, you shouldn't be filming it. Same as freeflying if you cant dock on a 6 way head down, you shouldn't be filming that 6 way. Most of all you know your limits, don't invite yourself to film something you shouldn't be filming. Shooting bad video is one thing, but you have a responsibility to all the people that your shooting to not be a danger to them, Skydivers, should never have to worry about the video person, its your job to make sure you dont get in their way. And falling on a formation or taking out an exit, doesn't get you hired much. Learn all that stuff without a camera, before you place yourself in that situation. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 June 7, 2004 "what kind of stuff should i work on to better prepare myself?" Okay the gays and gals here are giving some great advice on preparing your flying skills, which are fundamental (a nice word bringing together fun and mental) in maintaining your personal safety etc. However, there's loads of stuff you can do on the technical side of photography that will make you a better camera flier too. Gain a knowledge of how cameras work, watch video, look at still pictures. Try and visualise what you want from your camera flying, then put in place the technical skills that will help you. Do you know how to manipulate stills in Photoshop? Whats an F-stop? How about learning how to create DVDs, basic editing, etc. Pull out all you copies of skydiving magazines, take a look at the pictures you like and try to find out what it is that makes them eye catching. The same with all your video, which sequences appeal to you, and suss why. There is a huge difference between wearing a flight recorder, and flying a camera. All this stuff doesn't eat into your airtime, and its definitely useful later.Think about this, if you can't take a decent picture on the ground, with your camera in your hands, how do you expect to do it balancing on your head, at 180 mph, with the camera bolted to your helmet. Oh, and read up on stuff at the camera forum, its actually about the best on-line resource available.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigM 2 #10 June 7, 2004 Dutch and Lori had some GREAT advice here on this subject. I'd like to repeat something most of us have heard many times before. It applies to all areas of skydiving but we are pointing it towards the camera flying arena right now. I consider it gold: "If you ask enough people you will get the answer you want to hear." There is no one right answer on this subject, but please don't be in a rush. There is always someone (and too often it can be a very experienced jumper) that will tell you something along the lines of "...yeah go ahead just be real conservative for a while..." and I hate when I hear this. I am a pretty balls-to-the-wall kind of guy and I had 400 jumps before I put video on my head; then waited until this coming weekend, almost 250 jumps later, before adding stills. And like someone else said, I try to mix my camera flying with other disciplines. Whatever you do, be very safe. Blue 111- Jeff "When I die, I want to go like my grandmother, who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #11 June 7, 2004 I had almost 300 jumps before I did my first video...And I almost bounced. You should be VERY comfertable on they type of dive you are doing before you add the complications of video...And wait till you are VERY comfertable with video before you even think about adding a still camera. some people didn't wait...Like Norman Kent. It can be done sooner, but they are not the norm."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingarab 0 #12 June 7, 2004 When I started jumping (about a year and a half ago) the rule at the DZ where I was at was to wait 100 jumps. When I hit jump 100 I started and have jumped a camera ever since. There were some really great people there who helped me with some issues that I think will also help future camera flyers: 1. before you fly a camera, just fly the mounts and helmet. Get used to that first and feel the difference on opening. 2. once you do put the camera in the helmet, make sure to not fly for the shot. Just fly like normal and get used to how it feels to have the weight on your head. 3. Once you are used to that, go ahead and put a little sticker on your goggles for aim but still try not to fly for the shot too much. 4. Once youare comfortable with that, you can beging flying the shot, adding a ring site if you wish, and trying to work on stability, center framing, etc... Like many others, I believe that your jump number does not always dictate your skill level. Your peers will be the best judge of your skill level and they will most likely be able to tell you if you are ready or not. Best of luck and be safe. Remember, when all this is on your head, you risk the chance of more injury upon hard openings (whip lase etc..) Make sure to workout daily and keep your neck and back muscles in check. If you want to see what it is like to lose $3,000.00 worth of camera gear on a bad opening, just go to my site http://www.flyingarab.com and click on videos and the fun jumps. Scroll down until you see the "lost helmet" jump. Let me just tell ya..that son of a bitch hurt!!!!Sincerely, FlyingArab www.flyingarab.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #13 June 7, 2004 Altitude awareness should be second nature before you strap on a camera. But you should still wear an altimeter on your wrist, a beeper on your ear and - ideally - a flashing light on your ring sight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
addicted 0 #14 June 7, 2004 QuoteI had almost 300 jumps before I did my first video...And I almost bounced. what happened? any past posts on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #15 June 7, 2004 Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had almost 300 jumps before I did my first video...And I almost bounced. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what happened? any past posts on it? Its somewhere on here.... I'll recap it. It is the story of a cocky 250 jump know it all. A 21 year old kid that thought he could do anything, and who thought that his skill level was above his jump numbers. Boy was he wrong....He got a wake up call in the from of a very close, very fast moving planet. My buddy was doing his 300th jump and he wanted someone to video it. He was videoing a Tandem, and I was going to video him videoing the tandem. They threw together a video system for me. It was late in the day, and the cessna was climing SLOW. It was getting dark....Cars were driving with lights on. We decided we had better jump now from about 5 grand than take it higher. The tandem pulled and my buddy flipped on his back to video the tandem...I thought it was cool so when my buddy flew over to me and deployed I flipped on my back. Cool of me huh? Doing something for friend. Well the problem was the tandem pulled about 3 grand, he pulled about 2 grand....which leaves me pulling about???? Anyone? Anyone? Yes thats the right answer is LOW is where I pulled. I only knew I was low when I saw the dark horizon pass by my feet. When I flipped over on to my belly I was reaching for the reserve handle. My main then opened. It seems as soon as I knew I was low...I threw my main when I started to roll over... I got a great view of the ground running at 120 MPH from the place on the ground where my head was going to hit. Its all on video (POV). The altimeter comes into frame as I reach for the toggles. Its not much above 500 feet. I videoed my buddy landing, and the tandem landing. Then turned off the camera. On jump #270 I got my first Stiletto....If I had had that instead of my Raven II on this jump, I would be dead. Lessons: 1. Don't be fucking stupid. Even if your friends think its a good idea...does not mean it is a good idea. Just because Bob managed to pull it off does not mean you will survive the experience. 2. Don't do more than one new thing at a time. and when you do new things don't push it so hard. 3. Have a damn plan and follow it. When we got out low, the tandem should not have pulled lower, I should not have done any artistic shit. 4. I'm not special, and you are not either...No one is. The ground does not care if you meant to do something else...It only cares what happened. This was the first time it almost got me. It seems to try and get me every 1,000 jumps...More if I do something stupid, and think I'm good enough to handle it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #16 June 8, 2004 Lots of excellent advice here. What can you do to prepare ? First think of all things that can go wrong when wearing a camera.Find a mentor who can give you guidance. Next time you get line twists, think about how it would be different with a camera. Stuff like this. The camera is going to be a riot when you are ready for it. But it can also ruin your day in ways that wouldn't happen without it. It's very distracting to have a teminator "lock-on" your subject. Think about skydiving without being able to look everywhere everytime. Get your system checked out before flying it. Know as much as you can about it.... Like how to lose it fast if you need to. Damn that would suck. Like Norman Kent says..... you can't be worried about your gear etc. if you are trying to film. Survival mode must be calmed before going further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #17 June 8, 2004 Quote My #1 Rule of thumb for camera flyers, dont film a jump you shouldn't be on without a camera. If you cant fly good enough to be on a 20 way, you shouldn't be filming it. Same as freeflying if you cant dock on a 6 way head down, you shouldn't be filming that 6 way. Most of all you know your limits, don't invite yourself to film something you shouldn't be filming. Shooting bad video is one thing, but you have a responsibility to all the people that your shooting to not be a danger to them, Skydivers, should never have to worry about the video person, its your job to make sure you dont get in their way. And falling on a formation or taking out an exit, doesn't get you hired much. Learn all that stuff without a camera, before you place yourself in that situation. Wow, I really like this advice - I'm not trying to post whore here, but I just wanted to let you know that this one particular post has really given me some insight - Thank you....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jkwon 0 #18 June 9, 2004 I"m super glad I found this post. I had this exact question. My plan was to jump the helmet and mount until I felt comfortable. Then I was going to actually use the camera with the helmet in some of the other sports I participate in like climbing and if it takes me a long time IE next year to fly camera...videoing snowboarders with the camera on. I just felt I should know how air was going to affect me differently as well as how I'm going to react with over a grand worth of gear on my head. I plan on starting my helmet and mount jumps around 100 and seeing how I do with that combo. And of course asking the camera guys at my DZ what they think.--joe HISPA #69 The Best Band in the WORLD!!! The new full length album "See What You Can Find" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #19 June 9, 2004 "Then I was going to actually use the camera with the helmet in some of the other sports I participate in like climbing and if it takes me a long time IE next year to fly camera...videoing snowboarders with the camera on." Coolio, excellent idea. "I plan on starting my helmet and mount jumps around 100 and seeing how I do" I've never seen the point in doing his, my opinion is that it is the mounts and ringsights that represent the most risk (assuming almost universal uptake of D-box type enclosures). The reward for accepting that risk is the footage. In my opinion, there is no real benefit from flying empty mounts/d-boxes. Anyone care to discuss?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #20 June 9, 2004 QuoteI've never seen the point in doing his, my opinion is that it is the mounts and ringsights that represent the most risk (assuming almost universal uptake of D-box type enclosures). The reward for accepting that risk is the footage. In my opinion, there is no real benefit from flying empty mounts/d-boxes. I kind of agree....I would jump the helmet and VIDEO camera...(Not a STILL camera till video is natural) and just not think about it as much. In other words don't try sitting under the formation or flying on level with it till later. Just do simple boring above and off to the side video till it is natural to fly with the entaglement waiting to happen on your head. Also I would practice ditching the helmet till it is natural. Just like a normal cutaway and reserve pull. See this Check 1, 3, 4, 7, 13 (A friend of mine), 23, 24, 31."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRules 0 #21 June 9, 2004 thanks everyone... there's some great advice here! like i said, im not ready to put a camera on yet but it's definitely something i want to do in the future and it's good to see what people say about it ~ * Life Has No Rules * ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jannu 0 #22 June 9, 2004 Hey Flyingarab! Nice videos you got on your site... but... as I watched them, I noticed that on quite many jumps you pull the PC out, then leave it in your hand until tossing it in the air... why's that? Makes me wonder... as I don't get it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #23 June 10, 2004 Quote4. I'm not special, and you are not either...No one is. The ground does not care if you meant to do something else...It only cares what happened. Ron this is the wisest thing you've said on dz.com. do you mind if I borrow this one?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #24 June 10, 2004 Quote1. before you fly a camera, just fly the mounts and helmet. Get used to that first and feel the difference on opening. actually i would think this is a bad advice. jumping an empty mount will give you more chance of snag. Quote2. once you do put the camera in the helmet, make sure to not fly for the shot. thats a good advice O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #25 June 10, 2004 Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. I'm not special, and you are not either...No one is. The ground does not care if you meant to do something else...It only cares what happened. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron this is the wisest thing you've said on dz.com. do you mind if I borrow this one? Use anything I ever say, whenever you want. Just use it in the proper context. ...I don't think you could take this out of context...But lets say we are talking about gay rights...And I say "Lets say I'm gay" I don't want to see me quoted as "I'm Gay". Get the point? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
