What can we do about Skyride?

[LoudDan 0]

I DON'T work there, however, I have a good many friends that make their livelyhood from skydiving.
I'm an up-jumper, (To my knowledge this is not crime), and ASC is not the only place I jump.

As for those that do work there, MOST do so for the same reason everyone else in the world has a job............they have kids, they have families, they have bills.

I'm just throwing the responsibility thing out there as food for thought. Seriously, if someone had knowledge of all of these illegal activities and chose to hold on to that knowledge instead of reporting it when they gained said knowledge, I would tend to think they could be held accountable. Not by the USPA, but by any investigative and prosecuting agencies. (I think it's called conspiring, but I'm not 100% on that)

I just wonder where the chain of responsibility will/should stop. Does it stop at the owner, the business manager, the phone sales personell, the tandem master, the manifest, the maintenance staff.

Or should the liability be placed on those who, during there time of employment (service in a paid staff position), had specific knowledge of illegal activities and practices.

Again, I'm not trying to justify anybody's actions, I'm not making excuses for anyone. I'm just wondering what the general concensus is.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[marks 0]

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So what about all the people that worked for Ben and Carey while this monster was being built?

we left!..


i will not support them in any way. if i did, i should just go out and do the stealing for them..

and in my opinion, you jumping there and supporting them is you being an accomplice to stealing money from one of my freinds 2 year old daughter..

dont see the connection? thats because you vision is clouded.

YOUR FUCKING SUPPORTING THEIVES!.... it has been proven time and time again.

[popsjumper 2]

Excuses
....But I only work there,
- It's not my responsibility.
- I'm not in charge of the business.
- I have kids to feed.
....But I only skydive there,
- I don't have anything to do with the business.
- They have AC in the packing area.
- They have a plane with a big door.

Like personal integrity is not a desirable trait.
Like there are no other jobs available anywhere else.
Like there are no honest DZs nearby.
Like there are no other DZs with the "big door".
Like having AC'd packing overides the integrity issues.
Like spending your money there has no bearing on the business.
Like doing business with them is not contributing to the problem.
Like associating with them has no reflection on you.


For every reason, there is an excuse so please excuse me, I am not responsible for myself and my decisions.
(if you can't detect the sarcasm here, odds are you are an ASC/Skyride supporter)

On a personal note: I don't know you personally, Mike. But I do know that you are a participant in this either directly or indirectly, neither of which is acceptable.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[LoudDan 0]

Throttle back there turbo, what's with the personal attack. I don't recall directing anything at you, I asked a general question about where people thought the liability should lie, how far down the chain it should go, and how far back it should reach.

I asked the question to provoke some thought and insight into the subject because it can be very far reaching or very accute depending on the stance one might take depending on their understanding of how specific laws apply to those involved directly and indirectly.

Now, since you were directly involved with Skyride/ ASC for around seven years I could certainly understand where you might have an interest in how some of those laws will be applied, however, I fail to see how accusing me of supporting thievery and depriving a child is remotely relevant as I have done neither.

That said, I sincerely would like to know (since this seems to be largely about ethics) how far people generally think the "chain of responsibility" should go. Tagging on to the MCI / ENRON comment from earlier, there is always a fall guy.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[popsjumper 2]

I think is applies all the way down to include those who know about it and continue to support it.

I find it hard to believe, though it may be possible, for any employee to be unaware of the problem.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[LoudDan 0]

So you think up-jumpers can be held criminally liable?

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[bct110 0]

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So you think up-jumpers can be held criminally liable?

Maybe not up-jumpers, but they are part of the problem. I know for a fact that the manifest people and those that do tandems are in on, or at least know about, the shady stuff... yet there they stay.

You may not be criminally liable...but if you jump there you are part of the problem. Until recently I didn't care too much, I just stayed away myself, went to the Farm instead. Then they STOLE TSC's 1800 number and it made this much more personal for me.

Bottom line: If your not part of the solution your part of the problem.

you either give them your money (upjumpers/DZOs) or you don't... there is no inbetween on this.

[marks 0]

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Throttle back there turbo, what's with the personal attack. I don't recall directing anything at you, I asked a general question about where people thought the liability should lie, how far down the chain it should go, and how far back it should reach.

i dont see a personal attack there, maybe a mod should check it for me and correct me if im wrong.

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Now, since you were directly involved with Skyride/ ASC for around seven years I could certainly understand where you might have an interest in how some of those laws will be applied, however, I fail to see how accusing me of supporting thievery and depriving a child is remotely relevant as I have done neither.

and it is comments like this that will get persanal attacks thrown at you. dan the ONLY reason you asked those questions is to point the finger at me. wich in my opinion means your STILL making excusses for them. there is no excuss.

you say you want to hear from former peeps. well you have "LIVED IN MY HOUSE" for over a year. dont you think you have heard enough?

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however, I fail to see how accusing me of supporting thievery and depriving a child is remotely relevant as I have done neither.

this is correct, and i apploagize, considering this has just became public, i have to agree with you on that. and im sorry for saying you supported the theives.

that being said. you now know. and if you support them financially any further than this will be 100% truth. take that how you want it, because it is the truth.

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That said, I sincerely would like to know (since this seems to be largely about ethics) how far people generally think the "chain of responsibility" should go.

well you know as well as me that there is one person in particular that i know is going to get the finger pointed at them. weather or not eyvon "SP" had anything to do with it or not im sure the owners will point at her. and i feel really bad for her, but you know she will be the fallguy.

who knows who did it, and im sure that might be difficult to prove. so the wole operation needs to dissapear.

[jlmiracle 7]

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how far down the chain it should go, and how far back it should reach.

Start at the top and prosecute to the fullest (like Enron, Worldcom, etc.). If they (ben and cary) want to throw their employees under the bus, as they always do when questioned on their business practices, then they should go down with them. They (the ones that support Ben and Cary) now have an opportunity to get out, dis-associate themselves with such criminals.

I worked for criminals once (not skydiving) and decided to find a new job when I found out what scum bags they were. After I left I was contacted by the FBI. The FBI appreciated my cooperation, they will appreciate your cooperation too.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[beezyshaw 0]

Well, folks, looks like the plot thickens...

It has just come to my attention that the theft/hijacking of the toll-free number at Tennessee Skydiving Center isn't the first drop zone this has happened to. Over two years ago, another dz's toll-free number was mysteriously re-directed to ASC in Cedartown (or Skyride's call center, I'm not certain of the particulars). The dzo began wondering what had happened to all his tandem bookings, business had dropped off sharply, then one of the up jumpers from the dz called the toll-free number and...

The voice on the other end answered "Skydive Center". I think I've heard THAT phone greeting before! So for several weeks, ASC / Skyride enjoyed the benefit of booking and credit card charges for many many tandems that were intended for, marketed, and recruited by a legitimate drop zone.

[shortyj 0]

total $198.00 in indiana. Sorry guys I'm a newbie where should I buy them

Playtime is essential.

[chaoskitty 0]

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So you think up-jumpers can be held criminally liable?

No, Dan. For up-jumpers its an issue of morals and integrity.

[chaoskitty 0]

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total $198.00 in indiana. Sorry guys I'm a newbie where should I buy them

You dont need to call Skyride to book a tandem. You can call the dz of your choice directly. Click on the "dropzones" tab on the top of this page for info on dropzones near you.

[goose491 0]

K so this is where I'm confused. I understand how the death of a DZO could open the door for someone to call and take the number... but how is it possible to "hijack" a 1-800 number otherwise?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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As for those that do work there, MOST do so for the same reason everyone else in the world has a job............they have kids, they have families, they have bills.

As did those that worked at Skydive America. Loyalty didn't help them much when the criminal charges came down against certain individuals and helped shut the DZ.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

That's actually a pretty good analogy, Bo.

[marks 0]

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K so this is where I'm confused. I understand how the death of a DZO could open the door for someone to call and take the number... but how is it possible to "hijack" a 1-800 number otherwise?

you abviously dont know Cary Q.

that is him for sure, im also shure he will deny it to his death.

the best thing that i can see from all of this is.

to me it is clear that Chris Martin is still with us. he is taking care of the scum that he wanted to take care of a long time ago. that should make some of you have relieve in chris's death. because this story has got chris martins spirit written all over it..

GO CHRIS!!!!

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[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Throttle back there turbo, what's with the personal attack. I don't recall directing anything at you, I asked a general question about where people thought the liability should lie, how far down the chain it should go, and how far back it should reach.

I asked the question to provoke some thought and insight into the subject because it can be very far reaching or very accute depending on the stance one might take depending on their understanding of how specific laws apply to those involved directly and indirectly.

Now, since you were directly involved with Skyride/ ASC for around seven years I could certainly understand where you might have an interest in how some of those laws will be applied, however, I fail to see how accusing me of supporting thievery and depriving a child is remotely relevant as I have done neither.

That said, I sincerely would like to know (since this seems to be largely about ethics) how far people generally think the "chain of responsibility" should go. Tagging on to the MCI / ENRON comment from earlier, there is always a fall guy.

Let me qualify this by saying"Yes I have been drinking and I am too lazy to read past this post."

The buck stops with fucking Ben and fucking Cary.Everyone else... well....Things that make you go Hmmmmmm...

[pash 0]

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K so this is where I'm confused. I understand how the death of a DZO could open the door for someone to call and take the number... but how is it possible to "hijack" a 1-800 number otherwise?

I sell telecommunications for a living. It's unethical but 100% possible. Anyone can call a toll free database, find out who the responsible organization is (resporg) and make a call to that resporg. Anyone with a knowledge of the toll free owner's business can make the change (i.e. claim to be the owner [insert name here]. Trust me, telecom companies keep poor records as it is, let alone know when an owner passes.

It is illegal and by the same token, hard to prove since tape is not kept on all verbal change requests. There is the possibility for anyone to point any toll-free number to any ring-to number. ANYONE can do it. However, my opinion would be to investigate the beneficiary of such a change. This would be especially true of a person / organization with a documented history of deception and fraud.

This post was not directed at any specific organization.

jason

[CarolineM 0]

Beeeeeezzzzzzzyyyyy,

While this topic is rotten, like ben and cary's shorts, I am so happy to see you're still around. I'm back skydiving after a couple years layoff. I heard you're going to run Chris Martin's old DZ in Tullahoma. That's cool. I hope you remember me --the fun blonde from Huntsville that used to jump in Ellijay. C

[marks 0]

caroline,

yes this topic is rotten... but BEEZY SHAW! is awesome. im so proud of him for doing what he does...


he is doing the right thing. and will have whatever support he needs to do it!

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[slotperfect 7]

The tone of the posts has led me to post another word of caution:

Keep your tempers under control

Intentionally provoking threads that are simply meant to anger others will be removed.

Those who allow those shallow tactics to get under their skin and lash out with hateful personal attacks will take a long break from this forum.

Nuff said.

Arrive Safely

John

[CarolineM 0]

I agree Mark, Beezy is AWESOME. At least there's something good that's coming out of this mess

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[Ashtanga 0]

If you look at the Skyride website they have changed their pictures on their skydive websites to ASC pictures. It seems little by little we are making a difference.

[kelel01 1]

Interesting . . . it's funny how the same 12 people have done tandems and such at "Montana Skydiving", "Wyoming Skydiving", "Tennessee Skydiving", "Georgia Skydiving", "Mississippi Skydiving", etc. etc. etc.

Guess that might hurt the image that they're actually 50 different dropzones, when they can only get pics of 12 people.