What can we do about Skyride?

[bbarnhouse 0]

You may not have found anything under Skyride because its under a parent company.
check here for reports under references.

[Greene 0]

Do a deeper search.


Skyride[Skyirde ???? 1800skyride??

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Do a deeper search.

current as of 7/31/05

[jlmiracle 7]

I suggest doing a search in GA under skydive, skydiving, and or parachute. They are there, just under various other names (like their websites).

They have had an unsatifactory rating for at least one of their many many companies for years.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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DZOs need to stop accepting certificates and upjumpers need to jump elsewhere.

Yes, AND we need to stop jumping the airplanes that are farmed out by those that accept skyride certificates.

I was really looking forward to jumping the CASA at the WFFC but it looks like the skyvan will have to be the tailgate of choice .

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[bct110 0]

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Yes, AND we need to stop jumping the airplanes that are farmed out by those that accept skyride certificates.

Knowing that the Skyride website is less than truthful of the DZ's that accept their certificates, is there a "real" list somewhere so I know who NOT to give my business to? Plus they deserve to be "called out" by the honest skydiving community..

[skybum1 0]

http://www.atlanta.bbb.org

You will find skyride's info under parachute jump instruction

"Remember to be nice to people on your way up cause you meet them on your way down." Jimmy D.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Speaking of not having money, I want all of you to listen VERY carefully. This is Trey, the DZO of Skydive Atlanta in Thomaston.
This past month we have had our google ads that are paid click thru's triple. In other words people are going to the Google ads and clicking them indiscriminately. That is, those of you who are trying to hurt ASC/Skyride are inadvertently costing us a fortune.
My partner and I believe it's a direct result of suggestions made on this forum.
The result for us: we will have to limit our exposure and real potential customers will never make it to us, they will end up at ASC, who can absorb the costs.
The result for ASC: Cary will pay a little more and get the same results. You are not hurting him, he has the money to deal with it.
Although your intentions are appreciated, you are not helping. Let the DZO's handle it. There are plans in the works.
If you really want to help, don't jump at their DZ's and continue to hold those that support Ben and Cary accountable for that support.
Please pass the word on to anyone who might be clicking on these ads.

SkyRide folks were tossed out of USPA. Cool. A small victory.

Onto the next phase, what can we do to beat SkyRide at their own game?

Well, my answer is Where To Jump

This web site has two major user groups: search engines and prospective first time jumpers.

The part that experienced jumpers can play in this web site, is to link it from their web site. You can even do that discreetly if you want to. Just ask me how to do that, if you don’t know. You can find my contact info at MakeItHappen

My FunJumper/skyride page shows up in Google searches frequently and on the first page of many 'skydive Some City' or 'skydive Some State'.

My Deceptive DZ Tactics shows up on the first page of a 'skydive georgia' search. This is an orphan page to boot!

So, I figure a web site targeted for the search engines will have even better search results - even without paid advertising. Time will tell, I guess.

Add in some targeted internet ad campaigns and SR will fall off the sponsor list.

There is power in numbers. There are more DZOs not taking SR than those that accept them. If those DZS pool their money and fight collectively, SR will go out of business.

Then we will be onto the third stage, Fix Your Pages! Stop me before I rant too much………

BTW, photographers that want some of their photos added to Where To Jump should contact me asap. Google hasn't crawled the site yet, so get in there before they do. It's a FREE link to YOUR web site.

.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Well, my answer is Where To Jump

Absolutely! Jan I'll be the first to sign up.
B

[pilotdave 0]

Better than skyride, but $95/month for a "gold listing" (with the same type of info available for free right here on dz.com)?? What percentage of that goes toward the "ad campaign" to promote your site? I'm sure you have great intentions here... convince me. I just get creeped out when I see something that has the appearance of someone trying to cash in on a situation that's bad enough already. Not saying you're doing that and I'm 100% sure you are not... just saying your site sure looks like the sort of thing someone would make who was trying to cash in and use dropzone.com to advertise "under the radar"...

Dave

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Better than skyride, but $95/month for a "gold listing" (with the same type on info available for free right here on dz.com)?? What percentage of that goes toward the "ad campaign" to promote your site? I'm sure you have great intentions here... convince me. I just get creeped out when I see something that has the appearance of someone trying to cash in on a situation that's bad enough already. Not saying you're doing that and I'm 100% sure you are not... just saying your site sure looks like the sort of thing someone would make who was trying to cash in...

You know, I expected this type of reply.

I have talked to many, many DZOs over the past few years about this issue of SR and internet marketing. I have heard the same f&#@king story over and over. I have looked at DZOs' web sites that ought to be shot to put them out of their misery. I have helped DZOs improve their web site, often without any compensation. SkydiveOhio.com did send me $50 without me even asking. That's the dream of doing what you like to do and want to do and the money will come to you.

I have recently talked with a small LA DZ that paid over $200 last month in internet ads. Trey mentions that his bills are excessive. Another KS DZO controls his bills at $20 per month. I cannot control what DZOs do. All I can do is provide a way for DZOs to know up front what their internet ad bill will be.

I can run internet ad campaigns on the expensive keywords 'skydive' and 'skydiving' at a lower cost than what DZs are currently paying. It costs about $10 to $20 per day to get the number 1 or 2 slot for these keywords. SR can afford that. Most other DZs cannot. If the money is pooled then the internet ad campaign can work for the benefit of the real DZs. DZs would not be pricing themselves out against each other. Customers end up selecting the place they want to go to.

Look at it this way, say 4 DZs in some state pay $200 per month now, they can reduce their cost to $95 per month and still get the same exposure and traffic.

BTW, I do log impressions and Click Thrus on each DZ.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Absolutely! Jan I'll be the first to sign up.
B

Well I'll give you the Jan's first come first served response.

I'll put your money into a campaign targeted towards 'skydive, skydiving, skydive arizona, skydive phoenix, skydive tucson' keywords, until I get my second customer.
I'll have it metered thoughout the month of August.

I can turn on your Gold ad immediately.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[pilotdave 0]

I can see both the benefit to a site like that and the downside. Sure, it may be cheaper advertising than other forms. But lets say my DZ buys a gold listing. The other DZs in the state still show up, right? What if they buy gold listings too? It's like buying an ad in the yellow pages only because your competition does. It's like accepting skyride GCs only because your competition does. So you're not the one left behind.

Do you plan to not list DZs that accept skyride GCs? I found one on their already that (I think) does... at least that's where Skyride wanted to send me when I called... I can PM you with the DZ if you want.

Also, how will you deal with DZs that are close to state lines? A DZ may be very close to a major city in another state. DZ.com has a dropzone locator that uses actual distance to the DZ as opposed to what state it's in. Wouldn't it have made sense to take advantage of what already exists on the internet?

I think it's great that you've helped DZs with their websites. I agree that so many of them are in dire need of help. But I don't know what that has to do with this site. I'm not accusing you of anything here. I'm just asking what this is really gonna do for anyone. Move skyride down the list on google? Once dropzones stop accepting their certificates, they go away.

Dave

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Well I'll give you the Jan's first come first served response.

I'll put your money into a campaign targeted towards 'skydive, skydiving, skydive arizona, skydive phoenix, skydive tucson' keywords, until I get my second customer.
I'll have it metered thoughout the month of August.

I can turn on your Gold ad immediately.

Make It Happen....Make it so.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I can see both the benefit to a site like that and the downside. Sure, it may be cheaper advertising than other forms. But lets say my DZ buys a gold listing. The other DZs in the state still show up, right? What if they buy gold listings too? It's like buying an ad in the yellow pages only because your competition does. It's like accepting skyride GCs only because your competition does. So you're not the one left behind.

Do you plan to not list DZs that accept skyride GCs? I found one on their already that (I think) does... at least that's where Skyride wanted to send me when I called... I can PM you with the DZ if you want.

Also, how will you deal with DZs that are close to state lines? A DZ may be very close to a major city in another state. DZ.com has a dropzone locator that uses actual distance to the DZ as opposed to what state it's in. Wouldn't it have made sense to take advantage of what already exists on the internet?

I think it's great that you've helped DZs with their websites. I agree that so many of them are in dire need of help. But I don't know what that has to do with this site. I'm not accusing you of anything here. I'm just asking what this is really gonna do for anyone. Move skyride down the list on google? Once dropzones stop accepting their certificates, they go away.

Dave, I did not just fall off the turnip truck.

DZOs have been asking for a centralized site to promote them for years. Some DZOs expect USPA to pick this up. USPA is under-staffed as it is. They do not have the techno expertise to do this. Just look at the USPA web site. Same title on all pages. Rampant 'click here's. The kicker, that I think is just too outrageous, is that USPA staff thinks that an email link that does not have the email addy displayed prevents spammers from farming the email addy that is directly written in a mailto link. That's another story in and of itself.

DZOs have said time and time again, from every part of the country 'I take SkyRide because they send me customers I would not have otherwise.'

This is so absurd. DZOs can get the customers. They have to understand internet marketing. Most do not know the how tos about internet marketing. One aspect is paid ads. Another aspect is their web site. We agree that there are DZ web sites that turn-off a potential customer. I think we can also agree that SR sites turn on potential customers. I've even said to Ben Butler that SR could have been a GREAT thing for skydiving. If they had asked for photo use permission and they did not lie to customers they would be millionaires today. SR sites are good marketing. SR sites target first time jumpers. Rarely do you see that with a REAL DZ web site.

I've heard stories from DZOs that start with 'Yeah I took SR', then 'They low-balled me saying a competitor had a lower wholesale price.', then 'Fuck them - I can get the customers.' DZOs start out with SR and for some reason do not realize that they pay about $35 or more PER CUSTOMER for advertising. (ad cost ~= $200 - $165)

I know of DZOs that have a tandem wholesale price of $125. That's at least $75 per customer they are paying to SR.

As to the boycotting of DZ that take SR: The way I look at this is that you have to be on the field and take your turn at bat. I am not going to eschew someone for taking SR. I will talk their ear off and show them the money.

As to the collective advertising: I'll go off on a tangent here. John Nash was a brilliant Nobel Prize winner in mathematics. He came up with a game theory that postulates that in some cases COOPERATION among competitors will lead to the best overall winning status. In the DVD, A Beautiful Mind, there is a scene that shows John and several of his buddies in a pub outside of Cambridge. There is a drop-dead, gorgeous woman that all of them are 'ga-ga' over. Nash's game theory states that they will all lose if they all pursue the gorgeous woman. The gorgeous woman would only pick one man. That makes all the other men losers. It also says that the losers that pursue 'the next best pick' are taking up their 'second choice'. Any woman that realizes they are 'left-overs' will rebuff the advances. Check out the dvd because it clearly illustrates the games going on here.

Another thing about internet advertising: The key words that customers use are 'skydive' and 'skydiving'. They do not use 'skydive mystate' or 'skydiving mystate' that often( or my city). DZs all buying 'skydive' and 'skydiving' key words are driving up the cost. COOPERATE and the cost will be lower. The catch is that you have to let the customer decide upon the DZ. They do that by looking at the DZ web site or calling the DZ.

.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Finally another answer to the question of this thread: level the playing field. In case anyone missed it, Jan has an incredible, ethical idea here. I think that it can work, generate money for your DZs (helps you keep cheaper jump tickets), and no longer gives tandem students a negative image of our sport.

Good job Jan.

I can see Dave's point, but I do know that Search Engine Optimization (SEO's) companies charge a hell of a lot more than $95. If you don't believe me - just google that term.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ripcords 0]

I concur. Good Job Jan!

I have already added a link for www.wheretojump.com onto our links page of our site.

Keep up the great work and thanks again for not giving up the fight.

[SwampGod 0]

I'm hoping in our efforts to do something productive we haven't all diluted our talents. I'm still a couple of weeks away from my contribution (which I'm hoping will still be a unique approach), but with so many forms of a similiar idea appearing I'm sensing a culling in the near future.

PLEASE BE SURE WE'RE CULLING THE RIGHT FOLKS.

The best ideas will bring new people to the sport, rather than redirect the existing flow. Search engines and pay-per-click ads are useful, as are many of the features a "legitimate" skyride might offer... and should offer, though many DZs are doing this themselves.

So long as we all play nice and act in ways that benefit the sport, and not just individual jumpers, we should be all good.

Keep it in mind, folks... this is clearly not a complete list, but try to remember for now that the foe of ye foe is ye friend.

http://uspa.org/dz/index.htm
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/dropzone/finder.cgi
http://www.wheretojump.com/
http://www.wheretoskydive.com/
http://www.ground-rush.com/dz.htm
http://www.skydivecsc.com/skydiving_us/
http://www.1800skyrider.com/

[lummy 4]

just wanted to keep this on the first page

aka BUMP

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[skydived19006 4]

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Do you plan to not list DZs that accept skyride GCs? I found one on their already that (I think) does... at least that's where Skyride wanted to send me when I called... I can PM you with the DZ if you want.

Ok here’s a unique idea, never believe anything you’re told by anyone at Skyride. I’ve called them myself as a potential tandem customer, I pressed for the location of the DZ they had in my area, and they gave me vague directions to… guess who…My own DZ. And no, I don’t take Skyride business. You’d have to actually be at a DZ, and see people trading Skyride certificates to ever really know. I’d almost bet that very few DZs advertise that they do business with the devil.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Ok here’s a unique idea, never believe anything you’re told by anyone at Skyride.

Are you saying that they actually lied to you?
Oh I gotta name for that. "Sky I Lied"

[skydived19006 4]

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I have recently talked with a small LA DZ that paid over $200 last month in internet ads. Trey mentions that his bills are excessive. Another KS DZO controls his bills at $20 per month. I cannot control what DZOs do. All I can do is provide a way for DZOs to know up front what their internet ad bill will be.

I’m the “Kansas DZO that controls my Yahoo Search bill to $20 a month. Ironically I have to push it up to the $20 a month minimum spend point. I also spend $10 +/- on Google Adwords. I do not push general terms such as “Skydive”, “Skydiving”, that’s where someone like Jan comes in. It would do me little good to pay for someone in Florida to see my paid ad.

The whole Skyride issue spurred me to do a few things to help my internet marketing. At some point I found Jan Meyer, I can personally attest that she looked at my site and suggested a few fixes. She didn’t charge me, and it didn’t occur to me to send her money (Damn cheep DZOs! lol).

It makes me sick to see the USPA site in such a screwed up state! That site is perfectly positioned to be at the top of virtually every search for the words “Skydive” or “Skydiving”. All it would take is any average high school graduate these days to work on things a bit. I know for a fact that Jan has tried to help, made suggestions, and has simply ran up against a brick wall (I think that “wall” may be going away).

Thanks for all the help in the past, present, and future Jan!

Martin
Air Capital Drop Zone

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[sangiro 4]

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Well, my answer is Where To Jump

You can always just go to http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/, type in your ZIP code and we'll show you where the DZs are around you at the bargain price of $0.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[slug 1]

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Ok here’s a unique idea, never believe anything you’re told by anyone at Skyride.

Are you saying that they actually lied to you?
Oh I gotta name for that. "Sky I Lied"

Hi BB

Skyride lied to me

We got a coupon book in the mail for our little po- dunk town of 10,000. Coupons for burger king etc and a 15% off certificate from skyride!!!!!!!
I was stoked 15% off for a tandem, ballon ride etc.
Eventually a real person answered, we told them we want to make a tandem and save the 15% only to find out that all their operators were busy

So we left our name and number & they promised to have someone return our call in 1/2 hour
They lied four days later they still haven't returned my call

The good news is that the 15% offer is good for a year

I have to hand it to the skyride folks that in addition to the internet they are marketing to small towns via coupon books (color) with the 15% off pitch.

Since they haven't bothered to return my call What else are these guy's lieing about

Damn I wanted my wife to do a tandem this weekend

R.I.P.

[pilotdave 0]

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Well, my answer is Where To Jump

You can always just go to http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/, type in your ZIP code and we'll show you where the DZs are around you at the bargain price of $0.

Yeah but that's only good for the consumer, dropzones, you, and us! You need to think about the bigger picture here. And no advertising in the forums!
Dave