marks 0 #1251 July 21, 2005 QuoteChutting Star....You know that I like you personally Mike...But how do you stand if this is true? well mike just heard of this recently i think, past few days or so. he also has a group membership at asc for chuting starr rigging loft. and i beleive he got that for advertising purposes. i dont think it was so that they have a "piggy back membership". although maybee group memberships should be reserved for dropzone's and not a rigging loft. but who knows, mike maybee wanted to show that he is part of uspa and supports them by being a group member. but i also think that asc should not be able to use it in any way. i like mike personally too, he has clouded vision though, i would love to see him get out of there. then i could have my favorite rigger back. but untill then i will use other riggers. QuoteI wonder if the local media in Atlanta would be interested that this DZ lost support from the U.S.P.A. This might make good newspaper and/or TV time last thing we need is the media to see the "dirty" side of the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #1252 July 21, 2005 Any other doubts you can contact beezy shaw. He has 100% proof. These people are parasites. When you start doing shit like this to a dead mans family thats fucking low. I am really suprised no-one has taken matters into their own handshttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #1253 July 21, 2005 QuoteI wonder if the local media in Atlanta would be interested that this DZ lost support from the U.S.P.A. This might make good newspaper and/or TV time. Here is the problem....Whuffos don't care till after they get screwed. And ANY bad news about the sport will be bad news for everyone. Do a bad show on ASC, and the Farm will be considered bad. Whuffos don't care. Talk about going to the Farm and a Whuffo will say, "Thats the place on the news that got kicked out...I heard they killed 88 people last year!" You can't win a pubilcity battle like that..Every round you hit them with wounds you. The BEST bet is to capitalize on them stealing pictures and using them without permission, claiming they have people working there that don't, them claiming aircraft they don't have and this phone bit and taking them to court. Does anyone KNOW that cliking on the Google link will hurt them? I am not to big to play dirty to a bunch of shitbags."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #1254 July 21, 2005 Quote Does anyone KNOW that cliking on the Google link will hurt them? I am not to big to play dirty to a bunch of shitbags. In the long run? Not really. This is coming from a person that has set up pay-per-click via google, yahoo and MSN. You could effect anywhere from pennies to a few bucks per day, depending on how large they bid for ranking when keywords are searched. The cost is nothing that one tandem a week couldn't cover the cost of. You would be wasting your time mostly. My guess from playing with searches on google is they paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $1-5 for words like "skydive and skydiving" and additional words like "Chicago, New York, Los Angeles." However, they would only need to do this over a certain period of time before they could lower their bid for those words. Each click on the ad would also raise the ranking within Google - thus when someone searches "skydiving chicago" the skyride site should be in the tops of the unsponsored links as well. However, using their ads against them is just as unethical as they are. No one shold be doing it. It is now called 'click-fraud' and companies like google are working to prevent it - rumor is, they already have a measure in place where an IP addy is blocked out from registering after so many clicks in a certain period of time. There is also a lawsuit in the works against a company that was clicking on the links of their competitors to drive them out of the market. No one knows just how much data Google does store, but I'm certain they could chase down the people who commit this fraud. You can't fight fraud with fraud and hope to come out the winner. It has been said a few times before - the only way to make an impact against skyride is to: 1) Get DZs to stop using them and to make official requests to have their names, images, etc removed from any skyride related site. Send the request via certified mail so they can be used in court at a later date. 2) Bring them to court - not only the owners but every corporation connected to Skyride. I have it under good authority that the USPA actions are only the start of things to come._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #1255 July 21, 2005 Personally, I do not find either of the Skydive Orange-Maryland sites to be deceptive at all. Clicking on the links provided for pricing takes you to the 'Skydive Orange' site where everything is listed in plain dollars. Locations are clear up front, and if you call the number will you be greeted with a cheery 'Hello, Skydive Orange'? Having DZOs on the board abstaining from the ASC group membership vote was also the correct thing to do and the only way to get a decision that wouldn't be subject to challenge based on conflict of interest. I also don't see how it helps the USPA- they just lost money every year because of it. I think there needs to be some clarity to the issue and I can only describe it as I see it. Like many (not all) people on the anti-skyride side I don't see a problem with the 900 websites saying 'give us a call for a great time'. You can call that 'brilliant marketing' if you like but I see it as no different than setting up a card table on Airport Road and selling tandems to the dropzone 200 feet down. I don't see a problem with the tanden reselling. I don't see a problem with lining people up at a dropzone to make a jump and handling the reservations for them, collecting a reasonable port from the customer (disclosed up front) and a referral fee from the DZ. It becomes a problem when the customer has no idea where they are going to jump until they hand over the digits. It becomes a problem when you include mystery junk fees, bogus taxes and security fees that do not exist, insurance that is nebulous as to its purpose and value, rental fees that are already included in the initial cost, yadda yadda yadda. It becomes a problem when someone shows up with a $400+ tandem certificate and sees "Tandems $165, video/stills $75" on the board behind manifest. It becomes a problem when they send Skyride customers to places that want nothing to do with them and leave the DZO to deal with 'What do you mean you don't take these? I called the number on YOUR WEBSITE!' These customers leave and tell everyone they know that the dropzone is run by a bunch of crooks after finding out they will have to drive hundreds of miles to find a participating DZ. And yes, it becomes a problem when you steal someone else's phone number that they are paying for. No one has an issue with turning a profit in this industry. If we hated ASC, Ben, and Cary for making money we would also hate Deland. We would hate Perris. We would hate Skydive Chicago, Z-Hills, the Ranch, and every other place that has managed to do more than a marginal business. Do we hate these places? No, not really. They have their flaws to be sure but try to find the venomous 'anti' sentiment that exists with ASC and Skyride. We take issue to turning a profit through deceit, fraud, and outright thievery that pollutes a sport that we all dearly love. We take issue with exploiting ignorance and naivete. No place and no one is perfect and I'm sure supporters can come up with 'Well, this place did this' all day. I think ASC and Skyride are in a class by themselves right along with 419 and Internet Lottery scams, telemarketers that con old ladies who just want to talk to someone, and people that don't turn off their cell phones in the theatre ( on that last one). That's all I have to say on this issue; replies will be ignored since it is obvious that no opinions will be changed by this thread and picking on spelling errors or sentence fragments in a post is just plain childish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #1256 July 21, 2005 This is my first post in this long, long thread. All I have to say to dbattman's post is... Amen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #1257 July 22, 2005 You have said what I've repeated nearly a dozen times in this thread. The issue is not the business model - it is time tested and used all across the world by some of the biggest and best. I don't care if a DZ has a good, honest and legal way to make money over their competitor. The issue is how the business is run and the means they will use to produce a profit. The issue is the unethical and illegal methods it utilizes. This is damaging for everyone connected to skydiving. Bill Booth has said many times that it would only take one major law suit to bring down this industry - the ironic thing is that with Skyride it may not be connected to a fatality or injury. Every few pages in this thread it gets off track from a troll or someone wanting to transfer their anger towards the wrong person/DZ. There needs to be focus behind this, and people need to remember why this is different than anything else in this sport._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #1258 July 22, 2005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #1259 July 22, 2005 Hey! On a lighter note....bbattman's my roomie and I'm proud of him....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #1260 July 22, 2005 We take issue to turning a profit through deceit, fraud, and outright thievery that pollutes a sport that we all dearly love. We take issue with exploiting ignorance and naivete. *** Ding Ding Ding....a winner! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #1261 July 22, 2005 QuoteBottom line, Orange's websites, make them look like they are a DZ in Maryland, which they are not. You're kidding, right? From the first URL you provided: This is line 5: Tandem Skydiving in Virginia- an easy drive from many places in Maryland, we serve Suburban Maryland / DC. This is from the left side near the top: Directions From Maryland: Finally, at the end of the page in a highlighted box: Skydive Orange, Inc. 11339 Bloomsbury Road Orange, VA 22960 Comparing this to Skyride is absurd. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chutingstar 1 #1262 July 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteChutting Star....You know that I like you personally Mike...But how do you stand if this is true? well mike just heard of this recently i think, past few days or so. he also has a group membership at asc for chuting starr rigging loft. and i beleive he got that for advertising purposes. i dont think it was so that they have a "piggy back membership". although maybee group memberships should be reserved for dropzone's and not a rigging loft. but who knows, mike maybee wanted to show that he is part of uspa and supports them by being a group member. but i also think that asc should not be able to use it in any way. i like mike personally too, he has clouded vision though, i would love to see him get out of there. then i could have my favorite rigger back. but untill then i will use other riggers. Ron and Mark, My primary focus is on providing high-quality rigging services to my customers and the customers of the ASC group of drop zones. I also manage the staff at Atlanta Skydiving Center and run the student/coaching school (through Chutingstar). It is my intention that everyone who walks through ASC's doors has the best experience of their lives...be it a first-time student, a whuffo just watching, a rigging customer, a visiting jumper or an everyday regular skydiver. ASC is my skydiving home. It may be dysfunctional on several levels, but I'm not leaving all of my skydiving and work friends because of what Ben/Cary may/may not have done. My job is to make ASC's skydiving operation run smoothly and safely...and it does. As for Chutingstar's USPA Group Membership, I have been told by my regional director that it is no longer valid (although he doesn't agree with that decision). Ed Scott and Glenn Bangs have not returned my phone calls all week to verify this or explain my options. I applied and was approved a group membership in April as Chutingstar does run the student/coaching programs at ASC...I am also the S&TA and wanted easy access to rating checks for our visiting jumpers and staff. The possiblility of ASC losing its group membership was discussed with Glenn Bangs beforehand as one of many reasons for Chutingstar to become a group member. I wanted to keep an established link between USPA and ASC's jumpers. We religously follow the ISP, membership and licensing of our jumpers. I don't see how taking that away from Chutingstar helps USPA (in its issues with Ben/Cary) in any manner. I really hate posting here...so you may not hear from me for awhile. But I just wanted to reiterate why I do what I do since I've been slammed again...see you all in the gear and rigging forum. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LoudDan 0 #1263 July 22, 2005 I've got eye drops for you Mike if your vision is clouded. Maybe you need glasses. Don't worry the weather is supposed to clear up this weekend so your vision shouldn't be cloudy any more. I guess what really kills me is the way that everyone band wagons on issues like this what I'd like is to hear from someone that actually got screwed by Skyride. Everywhere I go people talk about the big evil ASC/ Skyride and the when I ask, the majority of those people have never been to the DZ, granted it's not 20 minutes from everwhere, but it ain't all that hard to find. Or the story was an "I heard yadda yadda yadda about yadda". I can't say nuch for skyrides business practices/ethics, but I can say that ASC does run smoothly, and safely and I wouldn't trust anyone else with my rig beside Mike and his staff. It is my home DZ and I've been their for over 2 years. What I can say is that indoor, air conditioned packing kicks ass when it's 100 degrees out. The fact that they will fly the Otter with 6 or 7 people kicks ass. The parties kick ass, the people kick ass, the staff kicks ass. The owners let us do our thing and help out with bail. I'll say it again, SKYRIDE IS SEPARATE FROM ASC, SKYRIDE IS A BOOKING AGENCY, ASC IS A DROPZONE. Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thanatos340 1 #1264 July 22, 2005 Dan... The Same Exact people who run the phones for Skyride can be found behind the manifest desk at ASC. (Atleast that is what I saw last time I was there 3 weeks ago). All the money goes into the SAME exact pockets. ASC started the 100`s of websites and Lying about where they were located long before They Started Skyride. ASC started the Hidden fees and Extra Charges for "The Big Plane" and "All the way UP" way before they started Skyride. ASC perfected these business practices and then took it nationwide under the name Skyride. Same Place. Same People. Same Lack of Ethics. Skyride is just an Extension of ASC. Yes, They have a Cool Plane, Yes they have good staff, Yes they have cool jumpers, Yes they have air-conditioned packing and Yes I think Mike is a Great Rigger and I am currently jumping one of his repacks. None of this justifies the way that Ben and Cary built this. If not for ASC/Skyrides Fraud and deception... Maybe the other DZ`s in the area would have all these things too. Other DZ`s choose to do business honestly even if it ment that they would loose business to ASC`s fraudulent business practices. The End does NOT justify the Means!! The only place that ASC and Skyride are different is in Your mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #1265 July 22, 2005 QuoteI really hate posting here...so you may not hear from me for awhile. But I just wanted to reiterate why I do what I do since I've been slammed again...see you all in the gear and rigging forum. I hope you don't think I'm slaming you. I'm not. I do think Carry is an ass with bad business practices. That does not include you, but you do defend him, so I wanted your take on what is pretty clearly an immoral move by him..(And I hope illegal and I hope he gets slammed for it.) Thats all. ASC may be a great DZ, the people may be great, the parties may be great, but I'll never spend a dime there if it will go to an ass like this guy."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #1266 July 22, 2005 QuoteI can't say nuch for skyrides business practices/ethics, Others can. do you think it is ethical to steal another DZ's phone number? Then claim to BE that DZ? Do you think it is ethical to use someone elses property and claim it as your own? I don't. ASC may have agreat plane, the peopl emay be great, I like Mike personally..... But the fact that the owners of ASC are the same as the owners of Skyride....I would NEVER give them a dime of my money. QuoteI'll say it again, SKYRIDE IS SEPARATE FROM ASC, SKYRIDE IS A BOOKING AGENCY, ASC IS A DROPZONE. The owners are THE SAME...And I don't promote nor support people who I feel are crooks...Even if I like the service they provide. Maybe my loss since the folks at the DZ seem cool, but I will never spend a dime if it will go to those whose business practices I think are crap. Cary and Ben are two people that I think are BAD for the sport...They may have a nice DZ, and nice toys, but I didn't play with the rich kid in the neighborhood just because he had nice toys if I thought he was a jerk. Dan stop defending your home DZ and look at the crap that owns the place. The DZ may be great, but you by jumping there support a couple of real assholes."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #1267 July 22, 2005 see me when i get home, i will give you a list of phone numbers. you can call them yourself. chris martin was DEAD! when the phone company was called and told it was him and the number was transferred. i cannot see how you can justify this. your just as bad if you do. if you dont think mike's vision on the TRUTH is clouded, maybee you need a wake up call dan. and mike, i wasnt slamming you. mike, and dan. i have ALOT of things that the both of you dont even know about. there is so many levels, it isnt even funny. pissing into the wind. chris martin was a great man, A.S.C. and all the staff and customers. you support them with your time and money, theft of a dead man and his family is what your supporting. you have fun with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ashtanga 0 #1268 July 22, 2005 QuoteAnd ANY bad news about the sport will be bad news for everyone. I know. I wasn't really going to call the media because it would make the sport look bad. I just wish there was a way to bring this to everyones attention without hurting the other dropzones and the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #1269 July 22, 2005 QuoteI know. I wasn't really going to call the media because it would make the sport look bad. I just wish there was a way to bring this to everyones attention without hurting the other dropzones and the sport There is. 1. Boycott ASC even if it is a cool place. Get others to see that the owners are jerks and supporting jerks hurts the sport. 2. Get all DZ's to quit honoring Skyride certificates. When a Tandem shows up to your DZ and you quit taking SRC tell them that Skyride is a scam, but we will help them out and give them a discount jump if they call the authorities and report them to the authorities and the BBB. 3. Get people who have had Pictures and Bios stolen press charges. But any 'press' is gonna hurt more than help."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beezyshaw 0 #1270 July 22, 2005 Well, I just got off the phone and there's yet one more very pissed off tandem jumper in the world. Here's what happened to this guy... Prior to the weekend of the fund raising boogie in Tullahoma a few weeks ago, a guy called TN Skydiving Center's toll-free number (which as we found out that weekend had been hijacked to ASC/Skyride). He made a reservation to make a tandem skydive at TN Skydiving Center for Sunday, June 14. Already knowing that dz is in Tullahoma, TN, he shows up and I personally took him on a tandem skydive. He paid cash for his jump, assuming that when he had given his credit card number when he made his reservation that the purpose was only to secure his slot. Just today he got his credit card bill, and guess what? He has a charge of $150 from "Adventure Skydiving Center" ! Gee, surprise, surprise. So he calls back on the toll free number (which now is routed back to Tullahoma of course) and when it is explained to him that we never take credit cards for tandem reservations, he's getting really pissed off because he knows that the same phone number he called the first time is the number he just called. Well, you get the picture. Thanks Ben, Cary, for being such honest, upstanding business people. Edited to add: So, if ASC is not part of the deceptive business practices, and Skyride is the only guilty party, then how can it be explained that the credit card charge is from "Adventure Skydiving Center? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #1271 July 22, 2005 but but, there buisness isnt your buissness.. what are you bitchin about beezy. your just pissed that somone stole your best freinds # after he died arent you. jeese..... c'mon everyone, lets hear it!.. why dont you defend asc, seriously. do it!, it is such a great place.... lets take up a huge collection and send it to ben and cary so they can sue everyone. lets give the $100,000 so they can higher a lawyer and sue uspa, and then when somone else dies who is a dzo, then they can steal there number. this is the way buisness is run right?... cmon lets make this right! by working there or jumping there, or by buying gear there, is essentially this. your giving them money, that means that you support this way of life and buissness.... face it, the ship is sinking. have fun. beezy, i would give this to the police, since it WAS a stolen number this now constitutes 2 federal crimes. identity theft and credit card fraud. the credit card fraud was because the phone number was stolen.. someone is going to jail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skinnyshrek 0 #1272 July 22, 2005 I'm sure Beezy has it all wrong. You know how he is. After all. Dan has clarified that they are not the same business!! Maybe it was just a mix up.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #1273 July 22, 2005 Quote He has a charge of $150 from "Adventure Skydiving Center" ! Gee, surprise, surprise. So he calls back on the toll free number (which now is routed back to Tullahoma of course) and when it is explained to him that we never take credit cards for tandem reservations, he's getting really pissed off because he knows that the same phone number he called the first time is the number he just called. Well, you get the picture. Thanks Ben, Cary, for being such honest, upstanding business people. Edited to add: So, if ASC is not part of the deceptive business practices, and Skyride is the only guilty party, then how can it be explained that the credit card charge is from "Adventure Skydiving Center? The good news? Solid proof of their practices that will hold up in court._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beezyshaw 0 #1274 July 22, 2005 QuoteMaybe it was just a mix up News Flash... I just got off the phone with someone who was at the Tullahoma airport this past Saturday. A group of 6 people came to the airport to make their tandem skydives, which they had made a reservation for and given credit cards to the telephone operator at "Tennessee Skydiving Center". They were puzzled to say the least when they were told that the dz hasn't re-opened yet. "Puzzled" is going to quickly turn into "pissed off" when these people get their credit card statements in a few weeks. Guess who's going to be smack-dab in the middle of the loop with this? Yep, yours truly. So it seems in trying to re-open TN Skydiving Center I've somehow gone from "not involved" to something other than that, let's just say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #1275 July 22, 2005 wow, so there will be multiple counts of cc fraud. and it was also across state lines. and there was identity theft.. hmmmm i really begginning to wonder, did the uspa really do the right thing? im glad to see that the bullshit everyone has been dealing with here for years is now known nation wide, and somone is doing somthing about it..... cary Q, you really fucked up trying to steal a dead skydivers phone number this time. by the way, can i have my shovel back now, the hole is deep enough. 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popsjumper 2 #1259 July 22, 2005 Hey! On a lighter note....bbattman's my roomie and I'm proud of him....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #1260 July 22, 2005 We take issue to turning a profit through deceit, fraud, and outright thievery that pollutes a sport that we all dearly love. We take issue with exploiting ignorance and naivete. *** Ding Ding Ding....a winner! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #1261 July 22, 2005 QuoteBottom line, Orange's websites, make them look like they are a DZ in Maryland, which they are not. You're kidding, right? From the first URL you provided: This is line 5: Tandem Skydiving in Virginia- an easy drive from many places in Maryland, we serve Suburban Maryland / DC. This is from the left side near the top: Directions From Maryland: Finally, at the end of the page in a highlighted box: Skydive Orange, Inc. 11339 Bloomsbury Road Orange, VA 22960 Comparing this to Skyride is absurd. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #1262 July 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteChutting Star....You know that I like you personally Mike...But how do you stand if this is true? well mike just heard of this recently i think, past few days or so. he also has a group membership at asc for chuting starr rigging loft. and i beleive he got that for advertising purposes. i dont think it was so that they have a "piggy back membership". although maybee group memberships should be reserved for dropzone's and not a rigging loft. but who knows, mike maybee wanted to show that he is part of uspa and supports them by being a group member. but i also think that asc should not be able to use it in any way. i like mike personally too, he has clouded vision though, i would love to see him get out of there. then i could have my favorite rigger back. but untill then i will use other riggers. Ron and Mark, My primary focus is on providing high-quality rigging services to my customers and the customers of the ASC group of drop zones. I also manage the staff at Atlanta Skydiving Center and run the student/coaching school (through Chutingstar). It is my intention that everyone who walks through ASC's doors has the best experience of their lives...be it a first-time student, a whuffo just watching, a rigging customer, a visiting jumper or an everyday regular skydiver. ASC is my skydiving home. It may be dysfunctional on several levels, but I'm not leaving all of my skydiving and work friends because of what Ben/Cary may/may not have done. My job is to make ASC's skydiving operation run smoothly and safely...and it does. As for Chutingstar's USPA Group Membership, I have been told by my regional director that it is no longer valid (although he doesn't agree with that decision). Ed Scott and Glenn Bangs have not returned my phone calls all week to verify this or explain my options. I applied and was approved a group membership in April as Chutingstar does run the student/coaching programs at ASC...I am also the S&TA and wanted easy access to rating checks for our visiting jumpers and staff. The possiblility of ASC losing its group membership was discussed with Glenn Bangs beforehand as one of many reasons for Chutingstar to become a group member. I wanted to keep an established link between USPA and ASC's jumpers. We religously follow the ISP, membership and licensing of our jumpers. I don't see how taking that away from Chutingstar helps USPA (in its issues with Ben/Cary) in any manner. I really hate posting here...so you may not hear from me for awhile. But I just wanted to reiterate why I do what I do since I've been slammed again...see you all in the gear and rigging forum. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoudDan 0 #1263 July 22, 2005 I've got eye drops for you Mike if your vision is clouded. Maybe you need glasses. Don't worry the weather is supposed to clear up this weekend so your vision shouldn't be cloudy any more. I guess what really kills me is the way that everyone band wagons on issues like this what I'd like is to hear from someone that actually got screwed by Skyride. Everywhere I go people talk about the big evil ASC/ Skyride and the when I ask, the majority of those people have never been to the DZ, granted it's not 20 minutes from everwhere, but it ain't all that hard to find. Or the story was an "I heard yadda yadda yadda about yadda". I can't say nuch for skyrides business practices/ethics, but I can say that ASC does run smoothly, and safely and I wouldn't trust anyone else with my rig beside Mike and his staff. It is my home DZ and I've been their for over 2 years. What I can say is that indoor, air conditioned packing kicks ass when it's 100 degrees out. The fact that they will fly the Otter with 6 or 7 people kicks ass. The parties kick ass, the people kick ass, the staff kicks ass. The owners let us do our thing and help out with bail. I'll say it again, SKYRIDE IS SEPARATE FROM ASC, SKYRIDE IS A BOOKING AGENCY, ASC IS A DROPZONE. Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #1264 July 22, 2005 Dan... The Same Exact people who run the phones for Skyride can be found behind the manifest desk at ASC. (Atleast that is what I saw last time I was there 3 weeks ago). All the money goes into the SAME exact pockets. ASC started the 100`s of websites and Lying about where they were located long before They Started Skyride. ASC started the Hidden fees and Extra Charges for "The Big Plane" and "All the way UP" way before they started Skyride. ASC perfected these business practices and then took it nationwide under the name Skyride. Same Place. Same People. Same Lack of Ethics. Skyride is just an Extension of ASC. Yes, They have a Cool Plane, Yes they have good staff, Yes they have cool jumpers, Yes they have air-conditioned packing and Yes I think Mike is a Great Rigger and I am currently jumping one of his repacks. None of this justifies the way that Ben and Cary built this. If not for ASC/Skyrides Fraud and deception... Maybe the other DZ`s in the area would have all these things too. Other DZ`s choose to do business honestly even if it ment that they would loose business to ASC`s fraudulent business practices. The End does NOT justify the Means!! The only place that ASC and Skyride are different is in Your mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #1265 July 22, 2005 QuoteI really hate posting here...so you may not hear from me for awhile. But I just wanted to reiterate why I do what I do since I've been slammed again...see you all in the gear and rigging forum. I hope you don't think I'm slaming you. I'm not. I do think Carry is an ass with bad business practices. That does not include you, but you do defend him, so I wanted your take on what is pretty clearly an immoral move by him..(And I hope illegal and I hope he gets slammed for it.) Thats all. ASC may be a great DZ, the people may be great, the parties may be great, but I'll never spend a dime there if it will go to an ass like this guy."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #1266 July 22, 2005 QuoteI can't say nuch for skyrides business practices/ethics, Others can. do you think it is ethical to steal another DZ's phone number? Then claim to BE that DZ? Do you think it is ethical to use someone elses property and claim it as your own? I don't. ASC may have agreat plane, the peopl emay be great, I like Mike personally..... But the fact that the owners of ASC are the same as the owners of Skyride....I would NEVER give them a dime of my money. QuoteI'll say it again, SKYRIDE IS SEPARATE FROM ASC, SKYRIDE IS A BOOKING AGENCY, ASC IS A DROPZONE. The owners are THE SAME...And I don't promote nor support people who I feel are crooks...Even if I like the service they provide. Maybe my loss since the folks at the DZ seem cool, but I will never spend a dime if it will go to those whose business practices I think are crap. Cary and Ben are two people that I think are BAD for the sport...They may have a nice DZ, and nice toys, but I didn't play with the rich kid in the neighborhood just because he had nice toys if I thought he was a jerk. Dan stop defending your home DZ and look at the crap that owns the place. The DZ may be great, but you by jumping there support a couple of real assholes."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #1267 July 22, 2005 see me when i get home, i will give you a list of phone numbers. you can call them yourself. chris martin was DEAD! when the phone company was called and told it was him and the number was transferred. i cannot see how you can justify this. your just as bad if you do. if you dont think mike's vision on the TRUTH is clouded, maybee you need a wake up call dan. and mike, i wasnt slamming you. mike, and dan. i have ALOT of things that the both of you dont even know about. there is so many levels, it isnt even funny. pissing into the wind. chris martin was a great man, A.S.C. and all the staff and customers. you support them with your time and money, theft of a dead man and his family is what your supporting. you have fun with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ashtanga 0 #1268 July 22, 2005 QuoteAnd ANY bad news about the sport will be bad news for everyone. I know. I wasn't really going to call the media because it would make the sport look bad. I just wish there was a way to bring this to everyones attention without hurting the other dropzones and the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #1269 July 22, 2005 QuoteI know. I wasn't really going to call the media because it would make the sport look bad. I just wish there was a way to bring this to everyones attention without hurting the other dropzones and the sport There is. 1. Boycott ASC even if it is a cool place. Get others to see that the owners are jerks and supporting jerks hurts the sport. 2. Get all DZ's to quit honoring Skyride certificates. When a Tandem shows up to your DZ and you quit taking SRC tell them that Skyride is a scam, but we will help them out and give them a discount jump if they call the authorities and report them to the authorities and the BBB. 3. Get people who have had Pictures and Bios stolen press charges. But any 'press' is gonna hurt more than help."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #1270 July 22, 2005 Well, I just got off the phone and there's yet one more very pissed off tandem jumper in the world. Here's what happened to this guy... Prior to the weekend of the fund raising boogie in Tullahoma a few weeks ago, a guy called TN Skydiving Center's toll-free number (which as we found out that weekend had been hijacked to ASC/Skyride). He made a reservation to make a tandem skydive at TN Skydiving Center for Sunday, June 14. Already knowing that dz is in Tullahoma, TN, he shows up and I personally took him on a tandem skydive. He paid cash for his jump, assuming that when he had given his credit card number when he made his reservation that the purpose was only to secure his slot. Just today he got his credit card bill, and guess what? He has a charge of $150 from "Adventure Skydiving Center" ! Gee, surprise, surprise. So he calls back on the toll free number (which now is routed back to Tullahoma of course) and when it is explained to him that we never take credit cards for tandem reservations, he's getting really pissed off because he knows that the same phone number he called the first time is the number he just called. Well, you get the picture. Thanks Ben, Cary, for being such honest, upstanding business people. Edited to add: So, if ASC is not part of the deceptive business practices, and Skyride is the only guilty party, then how can it be explained that the credit card charge is from "Adventure Skydiving Center? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #1271 July 22, 2005 but but, there buisness isnt your buissness.. what are you bitchin about beezy. your just pissed that somone stole your best freinds # after he died arent you. jeese..... c'mon everyone, lets hear it!.. why dont you defend asc, seriously. do it!, it is such a great place.... lets take up a huge collection and send it to ben and cary so they can sue everyone. lets give the $100,000 so they can higher a lawyer and sue uspa, and then when somone else dies who is a dzo, then they can steal there number. this is the way buisness is run right?... cmon lets make this right! by working there or jumping there, or by buying gear there, is essentially this. your giving them money, that means that you support this way of life and buissness.... face it, the ship is sinking. have fun. beezy, i would give this to the police, since it WAS a stolen number this now constitutes 2 federal crimes. identity theft and credit card fraud. the credit card fraud was because the phone number was stolen.. someone is going to jail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #1272 July 22, 2005 I'm sure Beezy has it all wrong. You know how he is. After all. Dan has clarified that they are not the same business!! Maybe it was just a mix up.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #1273 July 22, 2005 Quote He has a charge of $150 from "Adventure Skydiving Center" ! Gee, surprise, surprise. So he calls back on the toll free number (which now is routed back to Tullahoma of course) and when it is explained to him that we never take credit cards for tandem reservations, he's getting really pissed off because he knows that the same phone number he called the first time is the number he just called. Well, you get the picture. Thanks Ben, Cary, for being such honest, upstanding business people. Edited to add: So, if ASC is not part of the deceptive business practices, and Skyride is the only guilty party, then how can it be explained that the credit card charge is from "Adventure Skydiving Center? The good news? Solid proof of their practices that will hold up in court._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #1274 July 22, 2005 QuoteMaybe it was just a mix up News Flash... I just got off the phone with someone who was at the Tullahoma airport this past Saturday. A group of 6 people came to the airport to make their tandem skydives, which they had made a reservation for and given credit cards to the telephone operator at "Tennessee Skydiving Center". They were puzzled to say the least when they were told that the dz hasn't re-opened yet. "Puzzled" is going to quickly turn into "pissed off" when these people get their credit card statements in a few weeks. Guess who's going to be smack-dab in the middle of the loop with this? Yep, yours truly. So it seems in trying to re-open TN Skydiving Center I've somehow gone from "not involved" to something other than that, let's just say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #1275 July 22, 2005 wow, so there will be multiple counts of cc fraud. and it was also across state lines. and there was identity theft.. hmmmm i really begginning to wonder, did the uspa really do the right thing? im glad to see that the bullshit everyone has been dealing with here for years is now known nation wide, and somone is doing somthing about it..... cary Q, you really fucked up trying to steal a dead skydivers phone number this time. by the way, can i have my shovel back now, the hole is deep enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
