You're on a 4-way, and notice you're at 1200ft, do you:

[fred 0]

This was a hypothetical discussion at a dinner I was at a number of years ago, and I'm curious what the rest of you would do.

Here's the situation:
You're on a 4-way, and things are going great. You're turning points, and things seem smooth as can be. You're so into the jump that you (and the 3 others) lose altitude awareness. You look at your altimeter and you're at 1200ft. Your audible must've malfunctioned or you didn't hear it. You're in immediate proximity (probably in grips) to the other 3 jumpers.

Do you:
A) Pull immediately (includes pulling reserve immediately)
B) Wave off, then pull.
C) Turn to face away from the others and pull.
D) Turn, track away, and pull.

As I'm a lowish jumper, I'd like to hear experience levels too, and if that would affect your decision.

[ghost47 18]

To add on to the hypothetical, I'm wondering if more experienced jumpers would pull reserve or main.

Reserve makes sense to me because A) reserve is more likely to open cleanly; and b) your AAD (assuming you have one) is about to go off, and if you pull main, you're likely going to have two out.

Is that right?

[diablopilot 2]

I'd like to say I'd turn 180 and pull my reserve, but I'd probably just dump in place.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[zoobrothertom 5]

You missed an option.

I've done an upward backsliding pull in a siutation like this. Arms out and cupping your shoulders gives an instant 5~6 feet vertical and pushes you far enough away so that your feet don't accidently kick someone as you swing under line stretch.

Another key factor is what kind of main you're jumping. Jumping a Sabre? You could probably dump your main and get your hands on your handles. Jumping a hot rod and an AAD? You get to choose .....

Here's a good one.

Back in '85, I was on a 16 way for a guys 1000th jump. The plan was for one person on his right leg to pull him out at 4k. So, nobody had an audible back then and no one was looking at their alti. We were just all watching the victim. Our designated "puller" forgot his assignment. Suddenly, someone's pilot chute accidently slipped out of his leg strap without warning and he was sucked out of the formation.

Us remaining 14 co-conspirators all thought, "Hey! You pulled the wrong person you idiot!" Oh shit, we all suddenly realized we were in a rock stable 15 way going through 2300 feet! Woo Hoo, talk about nice tracking staggered pull openings in a very small cone of air space! I guess there are some advantages to F-111.

The clap of thunder as 15 assholes puckered up could be heard for miles.

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[diablopilot 2]

In 85', with the gear you were jumping, you could pull 50 feet from your neighbor while he did the same and survive it.


Come to think of it, that's probably how CRW was born.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ryoder 1,384]

The same thing I did last time; Backslide away while pulling:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3320929;#3320929

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

Jumping a Sabre? You could probably dump your main and get your hands on your handles.

At 1200 feet, if you're AAD equipped, chances are your AAD will fire pretty much as soon as your main stands you up... even if you're still well above 750 feet.

Dave

[labrys 0]

I'm with those who don't have a poll answer. I'd wave, backslide, and pull.

Owned by Remi #?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

With the main I have, the main would not be an option at 1200 ft. I would turn and go straight to reserve. I would probably have my legs out too but I don't think I would go very far.

[quade 3]

What makes you think this is a hypothetical discussion?

There has been at least one team that turned points into the ground and at least another that was only saved by Cypres fires.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wildcard451 0]

Odds are, no matter what you say here, probably 90% of us would go straight to our main out of instinct.

We all want to believe that we would go to our reserve immediately, or backslide (wasting another ~200 feet, not including time to pull), and pull or some variation...but unfortunately we're all creatures of habit.

We've pulled our mains tens, hundreds or thousands of times. This is why we keep our EPs so simple. When the mind is stressed it defaults to instinct, and most of the time, drilled in EPs will take over if you have engrained them enough.

However, you see 1200 ft still rolling at terminal, the shock alone will overwhelm you, and most people will go straight for their main, from muscle memory alone.

/my $0.02, spend it where you like.

[porpoishead 5]

pretty fucked up gig there bud.

I jump a pilot, and am aad equipped

I would turn and pull silver, hope for the fucking best.

if I were to end up in a wrap due to the close proximity of the deployment and no altitude left, I would also dump my main, and go in with the biggest ball of shit possible and one of my bros still hoping for the best of course.

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[Nutz 0]

Quote

Odds are, no matter what you say here, probably 90% of us would go straight to our main out of instinct.

We all want to believe that we would go to our reserve immediately, or backslide (wasting another ~200 feet, not including time to pull), and pull or some variation...but unfortunately we're all creatures of habit.

We've pulled our mains tens, hundreds or thousands of times. This is why we keep our EPs so simple. When the mind is stressed it defaults to instinct, and most of the time, drilled in EPs will take over if you have engrained them enough.

However, you see 1200 ft still rolling at terminal, the shock alone will overwhelm you, and most people will go straight for their main, from muscle memory alone.

/my $0.02, spend it where you like.

I agree

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[shropshire 0]

Take one of your shoes off and shove it down your underpants.
It wont help YOU but it'll cause the investigators a headache wondering how THAT happened!!



Really - Wave to your mates and pull Silver in place - by the time that others realise, there will be vertical separation.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[pirana 0]

I agree the shock of seeing 1200 might cause the instinct to kick in and just dump the main. However, I'd like to think I'd not dump my Stiletto at 1200. It can be exciting enough at double that altitude. For that reason (among others) I go thru EP's in my head and with my hands prior to EVERY SINGLE JUMP. (Little voice in head: "Below 1800, silver only, below 1800, silver only, . . .").

In the situation described; much better to turn, pull silver, and hope for on heading opening.

Fuck the wave off. The turn and pull should get people's attention.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[councilman24 36]

In about 81 I watched an 8 way horny gorilla go through 1000', twice.

It used to be common to throw in a horny gorilla at the end of RW jumps. Always seemed like a bad time to end up in a ball of shit on your back to me but we did it. I was on the ground, with somewhere around 100 jumps and the skygods were up doing an 8 way. We watched the horny gorilla go through 1000' and everybody either pull in place or turn and pull. All mains BTW. Everybody opened and landed fine. No AADs, no audibles, and mostly if not all chest mount altimeters reading high in the horny gorilla.

Everybody got down slightly in shock. Some said they'd get a ParaAlert, the only audible around then. (I had one for camera flying) Some said they'd stop doing horny gorillas at the bottom end. None of this happened.

Two weeks later..... Almost the identical 8 way up again, doing a horny gorilla at the end again, and busted 1000' again.

They weren't intending to bust 1000' but also didn't care as much as we would now.

Nobody learned a damned thing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DanG 1]

Unless you have outside video from above (who's probably long since left because he has the advantage of looking at the ground the whole jump) I don't see the point of waving. Pulling will pretty much get the point across.

Frankly, I don't really see the point of turning away either. If I'm the only one who realizes we're low, the best thing I can do for my buddies is pull immediately. Turning burns another 200' off of their lives.

I'd like to think I'd go for silver, but I'm about 90% sure I'd dump my main out of habit.

- Dan G

[airathanas 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't turning (without tracking) and pulling your reserve just dump it in the direction of your fellow jumpers? Nothing says "how you doin'?" like a freebag in the face!

It seems like dumping in place would be the "best" bet (and then immediately grab my risers to make quick turns to avoid a collision).

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[Glitch 0]

You have no friends
Pulling in place would give everybody else that screwed up the maximum amount of time left to do something... turning, backsliding, thinking, etc. takes time. My .02 worth.

[DanG 1]

The reserve will launch generally up, not back. Even if you sit up mightily, once the pilot chute gets free of the container, it will get pulled up way faster than the spring will launch it backward. Unless there is someone above you, I wouldn't worry about which direction I was facing during the pilot chute launch.

To take it further, if you are in the middle of an out-facing point (bi-pole) would you take the time to turn and face your team?

I'd just get something out as fast as I could, as long as there was no one directly above me.

- Dan G

[MarkM 0]

Freak out.

Pull immediately, which would be my main just out of reflex and habit.

Hope my buds do the same.

Hope we end up with enough vertical separation so we don't fly into each other and wrap.

Deal with any 2 outs and find a suitable landing space ASAP.

[rehmwa 2]

Brace for 4 cyprus's going off - our camera guy has been gone for a while now

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[airathanas 0]

Quote

The reserve will launch generally up, not back. Even if you sit up mightily, once the pilot chute gets free of the container, it will get pulled up way faster than the spring will launch it backward. Unless there is someone above you, I wouldn't worry about which direction I was facing during the pilot chute launch.

To take it further, if you are in the middle of an out-facing point (bi-pole) would you take the time to turn and face your team?

I'd just get something out as fast as I could, as long as there was no one directly above me.

Good point, the reserve goes up, but does the spring loaded pilot chute go out? Does someone have video of this? (I can't view youtube or skydivingmovies b/c of work)

Hmmm if I was in a bipole or something like that, I would probably dump in place as well.

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[Nutz 0]

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Fuck the wave off. The turn and pull should get people's attention.

I was at the convention in 2004 and it was a cloudy day. They were doing h+p's from the Pac. We watched a three way launch from 2300'. The first guy pulled about 1600'. I was like, hey, I know that canopy. The next guy pulled about 1300- 1400'. after that, the third guy, who was videoing, was at 1100'. The reason I know he was at 1100' is because he looked at his altimeter - and then he waved off. He almost snivelled until he hit the ground, it was open about 20' - really.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[ryoder 1,384]

Quote

Frankly, I don't really see the point of turning away either. If I'm the only one who realizes we're low, the best thing I can do for my buddies is pull immediately. Turning burns another 200' off of their lives.

Absolutely!!!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.