Remster 24 #26 February 24, 2005 QuoteI believe Skydiving is a very safe sport What part of it is very safe? The plane ride with no real seat to absork shock in case of a crash, the freefall when other can crash into you at 200 mph; the canopy opening where you ope the laws of chaos and fluid dynamics work out for you, or the landing when 20 other yahoos try to kill you? Wake up man, its not a safe sport. It can be made more or less safe, but its not safe. Especially not very safe. Do you realize that a lot of the deaths from low turns are typically not intentional hooks? The answer must thereofr be to ban brake lines since they are what cause turns, right? Damm, we better ban risers too...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #27 February 24, 2005 Most sports have a portion that pushes that edge. For skydiving, it is swooping. It is here to stay and that will not change. I have seen DZs ban hook turns and it did slow the injury rate. Instead of femurs, the injuries were mostly ankle stuff. Most DZs do not enforce such a rule. On bicycles, there is people doing backflips on bmx bikes. On skis, there is high-speed downhill. In cars, there is racing. Most sports have a high speed portion. Cars can kill, so can skis. If people watch a sport on tv because it is so close to the edge, they will eventually see a death. Many people have watched cars hit walls in US car races. Television advertising is what provides the high dollar prize money in most sports. Swooping may eventually move skydiving to a regular tv venue that boarding never got. Looking forward: Will people become more aggressive in their high performance landings as the money goes up? Probably. Will people see femurs break on tv if it is televised? Probably. Will clueless people join the sport because of seeing swooping on tv? Not anymore than now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #28 February 24, 2005 QuoteGiven the number of injuries and fatalities under functioning canopies, isn't it time we (the Skydiving community) excommunicated Swooping from our Sport. Skydiving would be an uninteresting sport without swooping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #29 February 24, 2005 Serious mountaineering, and Formula 1 grand prix racing, to name but two, have way more fatalities (proportionally) than does swooping. Ever look to see the fatality rate among climbers attempting Everest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #30 February 24, 2005 I'm in a short answer mood tonight . . . "Sport" and "No"Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #31 February 25, 2005 Why can't it be a stupid sport? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #32 February 25, 2005 Quote Now swooping is black death. Stick around another ten years, and speed skydiving, or wigsuit bigway, or high-G freefly will be black death, and you'll have forgotten about swooping and be all over banning these new things. There are always new things to want to ban. Fortunately for the us, there are more people who try to advance rather than try to stop the sport. ++ Well put. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #33 February 25, 2005 high-G freefly....Ok I'm in, how do we do it?Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #34 February 25, 2005 Whuffo you wanna swoop them canopies for anyway?!-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #35 February 25, 2005 QuoteSerious mountaineering, and Formula 1 grand prix racing, to name but two, have way more fatalities (proportionally) than does swooping. Hasn't been an F1 driver fatality since Ratzenberger and Senna. There will always be people who choose to take that extra level of risk and there will always be people who call them crazy.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #36 February 25, 2005 > high-G freefly. Ok I'm in, how do we do it? Take two plastic handles and some 550 microline, say 20 feet of it. Tie it between the handles. Each of two freeflyers grabs one of the handles, exits, and then spins around the other in three dimensions. (You can get spinning pretty fast even on your belly.) At the end of the dive, drop the handles; they should land pretty softly if they're light. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #37 February 25, 2005 QuoteTake two plastic handles and some 550 microline, say 20 feet of it. Tie it between the handles. Each of two freeflyers grabs one of the handles, exits, and then spins around the other in three dimensions. (You can get spinning pretty fast even on your belly.) That sounds crazy (and dangerous). I think it should be banned so that we could stick to something safe like swooping. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #38 February 25, 2005 QuoteSkydiving would be an uninteresting sport without swooping. BS...Skydiving is "uninteresting" to anyone that does not jump. Skydiving was around MANY years before swooping...I fit never happend, people would still have jumped....If it went away people would still jump."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #39 February 25, 2005 QuoteIf it went away people would still jump. It's not going away. But it will evolve just we the people jumping will evolve with our interests in the sport. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bartje 0 #40 February 25, 2005 Hmmm, I do have a vision that in 10 years we will do canopy relative work with wingsuit Flyers. Something like a 3D jump but with minimum 15 canopies and 15 WS. That will be a new standard in parachutejumping and freefalling. If it sounds like fun than it will be only possible thw to the canopypilots from today. Sounds stupid? 10 years ago with the first swoop competition it was the same. A FreeFly Gypsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #41 February 25, 2005 QuoteIt's not going away. But it will evolve just we the people jumping will evolve with our interests in the sport. Read what I wrote QuoteIf it went away people would still jump. do you doubt that?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #42 February 25, 2005 >I do have a vision that in 10 years we will do canopy relative work with wingsuit Flyers. We're already doing that. See Soul Flyers and the latest Luigi escapade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #43 February 25, 2005 we'll probibly see wingsuit fliers starting to land themselves w/o parachutes and starting to enter swoop competitions. wouldn't that be interesting? how about bladerunning with a wingsuit as in soul flyers.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #44 February 25, 2005 QuoteQuoteSkydiving would be an uninteresting sport without swooping. BS...Skydiving is "uninteresting" to anyone that does not jump. Skydiving was around MANY years before swooping...I fit never happend, people would still have jumped....If it went away people would still jump. Different people have wildly different thresholds for what they consider fun+exciting and how much effort is resonable to get there, While I rode rollercoasters most summer weekends as a kid I was almost bored the last time I tried. A mild aerobatic ride in a Pitts S2B wasn't much better. For years I'd snowboard 60 days a year in any conditions (even sun spotted glaciers). I no longer enjoy less than powder, and generally think the drive to ski areas, crowds, and poor snow conditions are too much for the small reward. In the last four years I've spent two week long vacations in foreign countries and at most 5 days domestically (0 in the last two years) - it's just not that enjoyable or worth the effort. If my home DZ banned swooping tomorrow after they kicked me off I'd limit my jumps to those I made training for back country excursions or on an annual vacation. Without the fast landings skydiving wouldn't be fun enough to justify the packing effort, plane ride, wait, and lost weekends. Holding hands in the sky is a bit like dancing - ocassionally fun, not terribly exciting, and not worth the drive to a nice club. On the plus side if they do manage to ban swooping here I'll get a lot more done with my power tools and my racquet ball game will get MUCH better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bartje 0 #45 February 26, 2005 With 15 ws en 15 canopies A FreeFly Gypsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #46 February 26, 2005 QuoteJesus Christ could appear and tell them to upsize they'd figure "well, Jesus doesn't swoop anyway, so he wouldn't understand my skills." -BillV I like that ...I think it comes down to people not listening until they have met the titanium or the coffin ;) I know the titanium/not jumping all winter worked for me...and now I am jumping a larger canopy than before I downsized ;) Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #47 February 27, 2005 Thats you, not everyone."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #48 February 27, 2005 QuoteThats you, not everyone. His point, ...EXACTLY! -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #49 February 28, 2005 I was off in Perris Valley this weekend where I received my latest round of high performance canopy coaching (yes swooping). Good stuff I tell you, good stuff. These guys know how to coach. Anyway, you know what could have been the most dangerous part of my weekend? You might think it's the swooping. But no. It was when I found myself going downwind low to the ground getting back from a bad spot on my last jump of the weekend (no swoop for me on this jump). But did I execute a low turn to turn into the wind? No, I knew better. Making stupid decisions under canopy is what kills people not some discipline of canopy flight. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #50 February 28, 2005 Quote Hasn't been an F1 driver fatality since Ratzenberger and Senna. How about we count marshals.. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
