How a newbie can vet a DZ

[Groundbound 0]

I am trying to come up with a short list of things that I can watch for at the skydive place I choose, in order for me to be satisfied their level of safety is adequate for my first jump. Maybe you guys would like to help guide me. I will choose a place then visit a couple of times if they will allow it, and observe; then I will ask to join them for a tandem jump and who knows where it will go from there.

1. Jump equipment visually in good repair.
2. Aircraft in good repair, and legal. Pilot legal for operation, and sober.
3. Tandem instructor appropriately qualified.
4. Appropriate safety briefing conducted by leader (weather, traffic, obstacles....)
5. Some kind of instructions/briefing given to newcomers.
6. No alcohol or weed used during operations by participants.
7. All divers under canopy by 2000'(?)
8. Healthy and professional ttitude of participants especially leaders when it comes to learning and safety.
9. Divers use a standard landing pattern, with minimal low level turns.
10. Participants avoid jumping through clouds.

There are some things I am not too sure of, like how do I know they have selected the correct size canopy for our weights? I can add our weights; is there a quick rule for canopy size given a weight?
Should I expect to have a Cypress /other AAD? Is an altimeter a legal requirement?

I am sure a good place will want to check me out too...so I will double my lithium dose that day and use plenty of breath mints!

[dragon2 0]

Huh. All that for a tandem?

Some of the stuff you mention is not judgeable by you anyway. And some of it isn't quite right either.

I'd just ask around here about where to go, if you're not sure.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[tdog 0]

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9. Divers use a standard landing pattern, with minimal low level turns.

I don't think you will find a DZ then

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10. Participants avoid jumping through clouds.

Ah, that takes all the fun out of it.


Dude, honestly I think you are overworking this list.

I would call the DZO and just start talking. Don’t have a list, just ask, “why is your DZ an awesome place?” You will pick up a lot and the conversation will tell you his attitude. Perhaps in person ask a question about aircraft maintenance. His facial expression will tell a lot... Is he proud to show you the maintenance book, or does he ask why you are asking?

If you walk around the DZ and see people that look experienced and you walk up to them and say, “Hey, I am thinking about learning to skydive, my name is XXXX. I just thought I would say hi.” Does the person say, “Hi, I’m XXXX. Let me introduce you to my friends.” – or – “Hi” and walks away…

But more importantly... Talk to the instructors. If they are gonna give you the time you are paying for, you are gonna probably do all right regardless of the DZ - especially if you choose a DZ that has a larger customer base...

Just my opinion…

[PhreeZone 15]

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1. Jump equipment visually in good repair.
2. Aircraft in good repair, and legal. Pilot legal for operation, and sober.
3. Tandem instructor appropriately qualified.

All three of these are very good questions to ask. If the pilot gets offended if you ask to see his licence it might be because he has never had anyone ask before. But it is a good idea to ask anyways if it helps put your mind at ease.

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4. Appropriate safety briefing conducted by leader (weather, traffic, obstacles....)
5. Some kind of instructions/briefing given to newcomers.

For Tandems 99% of the time the breaifing is done in about 15-20 minutes and they only go over high level things you need to know like how to exit, to Arch and to keep your hands off their hand. Pretty simple and I had done the briefing in 10 minutes while gearing the student up before if it was a rush load.

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6. No alcohol or weed used during operations by participants.

This is hard to verify even for experienced jumpers since someone can go off to their car, have a beer then use mouthwash and you probally won't know the difference. Plus some airports have bars right on them and jumpers who are done for the day mighht be in having a beer.

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7. All divers under canopy by 2000'(?)

Unless you have radar its really hard to verify this one

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8. Healthy and professional ttitude of participants especially leaders when it comes to learning and safety.

This is important so feel free to ask lots of questions of the Manifest. They will be able to find an instructor to answer your questions. If you just start asking questions of the first instructor you see the instructor might be trying to get someting done and you'll e percieved as being in the way and might get treated as such.

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9. Divers use a standard landing pattern, with minimal low level turns.

You'll probally be seeing people intentially doing low turns to induce more speed for their landings. Its called swooping and almost every DZ has someone out there doing it.

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10. Participants avoid jumping through clouds.

Most operations try as hard as they can to avoid clouds but you are in freefall for 10000 feet for a minute. Winds can blow you up to half a mile in freefall. Clouds move also. Some times even the best intentions have jumpers coming close or going through a cloud or else they might be dropped over a very dangerous landing area.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[chuckbrown 0]

My advice would be to not go around asking for proof of qualifications. It's bad form. If a guy's flying the plane or putting a tandem rig on, the probability's pretty high that he's rated to do those things. DZOs are very worried about anything that might invalidate the waiver to file suit for injuries.

By all means visit a DZ and check out the scene. If you're comfortable with the operation, go for a jump. You'll probably find whatever DZ you visit to be a very professional operation. Jumpers are all about having fun, but being safe about it.

Don't worry about canopy size, you'll jump what the tandem master feels is appropriate given your combined weights and the prevailing conditions. You will jump with an AAD, it's required for all student jumps.

Don't think to much. Go out and have fun.

[Darryn 0]

WOW,.................... It's good that you are so safe consciences. But it seems a little too much so. I think you have seen the movie Fandago too many times!

[wmw999 2,123]

There's nothing wrong with asking for qualifications. It doesn't happen often, but, well, there's nothing wrong with it.

We had someone ask for a TM's certificate not long ago; his mother was making a jump. The TM said it was the first time it'd happened, that the guy was kind of anal, but he raised his eyebrows in that "but good for him for doing what he thought was right" way. Then he went to get his certificate.

The guy read the whole waiver, and the TSO panel on the rigs, too. His right.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Liemberg 0]

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I am sure a good place will want to check me out too...so I will double my lithium dose that day and use plenty of breath mints!

OK - you can come out now, from under the bridge.

Good catch?

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[BIGUN 1,053]

You are welcome and encouraged to ask any of those questions at the DZs I work at. Number 7 won't matter much as Tandems get out last and we'll be under canopy way over them and landing way after them.

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how do I know they have selected the correct size canopy for our weights? I can add our weights; is there a quick rule for canopy size given a weight?

You will find that most DZ's keep students at the .7-8 wing-loading.

http://www.blueskies-skydiving.com/Wingload.htm

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Beerlight 0]

Their taking your money. Ask all the questions you wish. If they don't like it, walk and find another DZ...

Good luck....

[FrogNog 1]

Add the "heebies" rule. When you look inside the plane, at the gear, and at the people, do you get the heebie-jeebies, even if there isn't anything obviously wrong?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[calledisrael 0]

i didn't realize how great my dz was until i watched the instructors debriefing some jumps - you can really see it then - and watched them respond to some errant students (like myself.) this has been where i have really begun to understand how great they are.

the life of the dz was a little chaotic and messy looking to me at first because i didn't know what to really look for or why. now, i am really glad i stuck it out. my instructors are *incredibly* good at what they do. and they are going above and beyond to make me a good skydiver.

you are pretty much going to be fine with a tandem, going anyplace in the uspa and with a good rep. i mean, they are responsible for your life but also for their own, like my first TI said to me - "you are between me and the outside, and i am going out, and i am going to land beautifully, and you are going to land with me."

go have a great time. don't think too much.

life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.
(helen keller)

[Feeblemind 1]

Wow and I thought I was a safety nut. When I went to a DZ for the 1st time I had absolutely zero intention of going skydiving, I just went to watch a friend. But having an inquiring mind I looked at the same items you listed with the exception of the pilots lic. Well soon as we walked in the packing area door the verbal combat started. My buddy started it and they all chimed in to try and get me to do a tandem. Well me being faily large I was not overly concerned of holding my own, plus I am fairly decent with verbal combat. Right about that time "Skykimmer" called me a pussy cause I wouldn't jump. Needless to say my ego overcame my fear.

I jumped with JP from perris and then it all began. I am now have my class "A" license and a new rig with my main on order and one very empty savings account.

All I can say is I am VERY glad I was "encouraged" by so many to take that 1st jump.

Being safety conscious is a good thing, listen and learn then GO JUMP you will only regret if you stay on the ground.

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[tombuch 0]

Interesting question. A couple of years ago I wrote a book for first time jumpers just like you called JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy. The book is designed to help guide you through the selection process. It sounds like you already have a good handle on many of the things to look for. I suggest you begin by evaluating the look and feel of the web sites of at least three drop zones. Then make a call to each, and as somebody else here suggested, and just talk them up about skydiving. Some specific questions that I include in my book are:

Is your drop zone a member of USPA (why or why not)?
How many instructors do you have on staff?
Are all instructors rated by USPA (Yes, you can ask for their certification cards)?
How much experience do your instructor have?
How many students do you train in a year? How many get a USPA license?
Who packs the student parachutes? Is that person rated by the FAA?
How dangerous is skydiving?
How long have you been in business?
What kind of airplanes do you use, and how many jumpers go up at once?
What kind of training do you offer (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem, or some combination)?
How old is your student equipment?
Will I be given an altimeter?

The answers should be carefully evaluated, and in many cases there isn’t necessarily a right or wrong answer. JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy is loaded with information to help you evaluate the answers against both safety and your needs.

After you make your calls, evaluate and compare the answers, then visit at least one of the drop zones. Ask the same kind of questions, and evaluate the operation based on what you were told over the phone.

Most drop zones are solid and will treat you well. For more detail, check out JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy, published by McGraw-Hill, and available at many local booksellers, and at Amazon.com.

Blue Skies,

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[GaryP 0]

With the exception of points 3,4 & 5 I can't see how these matters impact YOUR first jump (which you said would be a tandem) or how you'd be in a position to judge them (equipment condition, aircraft condition).

What you are suggesting is akin to requesting breathtesting to every other driver on the road and checking their vehicle roadworthiness and mental efficiacy prior to taking your 1st driving lesson!!

I support you asking questions that are pertainent to YOUR TRAINING and YOUR INSTRUCTION but as for the actions and choices of other (non staff) jumpers - they don't affect you so please MYOB.

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[FrogNog 1]

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I suggest you begin by evaluating the look and feel of the web sites of at least three drop zones.

Even in the high tech bay area, the dropzones can be very low tech, with one not having updated their website in over a year, another is on a 6 month cycle. As much as I like being able to get current information that way, it doesn't seem to correlate much with the quality of the dropzone.

I like the guide in your book. Best question imo is: Is Skydiving Dangerous?

Good answer:
Of course it's dangerous. You get out of a plane three miles above the earth. And gravity does work. In fact, it rules supreme. The only thing between a skydiver and "deceleration trauma" is a chunk of nylon about the size of your living room. Which part of not being dangerous was unclear?

ok answer:
Statically, a person is much more likely to die in a car accident half a mile from their home than ever being seriously injured or killed during skydiving. Most skydiving accidents occur to experienced skydivers who just push the limits a little too far. However, skydiving is a high-risk sport and you will be asked to sign a waiver and assumption of risk agreements before participating.

bad answer:
'It's more dangerous driving to and from the dropzone.' (thankfully, didn't see this one)

[bodypilot1 0]

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Wow and I thought I was a safety nut. When I went to a DZ for the 1st time I had absolutely zero intention of going skydiving, I just went to watch a friend. But having an inquiring mind I looked at the same items you listed with the exception of the pilots lic. Well soon as we walked in the packing area door the verbal combat started. My buddy started it and they all chimed in to try and get me to do a tandem. Well me being faily large I was not overly concerned of holding my own, plus I am fairly decent with verbal combat. Right about that time "Skykimmer" called me a pussy cause I wouldn't jump. Needless to say my ego overcame my fear.

I jumped with JP from perris and then it all began. I am now have my class "A" license and a new rig with my main on order and one very empty savings account.

All I can say is I am VERY glad I was "encouraged" by so many to take that 1st jump.

Being safety conscious is a good thing, listen and learn then GO JUMP you will only regret if you stay on the ground.

And you asked alot of good questions.


Keepin' it safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[craig_b 0]

I see alot of conversation with some good some bad as usual. I think that all of us need to remember one important thing about any skydive..... who is responsible for it? The jumper. I commend you for asking the questions and with your knowledge from being a pilot some of it you can actually judge. Some of the best advice comes from those with the good experience (not me at 52 jumps, look for the bigger numbers!) and they brought up the good points. Is the DZ an USPA Group member? Is the school a group member also?

I am like you I tend to analyze things..... but the best advise after you decide is "shut up and jump". The most common phrase heard by a newbie.

Have Fun and Blue Skies!!

_________________________________________
once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return.

[firstime 0]

***JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy is loaded with information to help you evaluate the answers against both safety and your needs.

Ditto, Great book. It will answer all of your questions
and then some. Two of my wuffo friends read it and
then did a tandem.

[DJL 232]

I have a big picture comment, Chill the fuck out and have fun.

Hope to see you soon.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Avion 0]

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I will double my lithium dose that day and use plenty of breath mints!

LOL

Go and watch for a while, have a look at the equipment, talk with the staff, casually rather than interview them Watch the tandems come down. You can always ask for a certain instructor, if you feel more comfortable with one than another. Visit more than one DZ, and notice the differences. Then go with the one you like best.

[SCR10480 0]

.One very important part you've left off your list.

You may also want to ask if there has (or is) any variation in the gravitational pull, "Gravitational anomaly" if you will. You see, if the pull of gravity isn't the same strength, then you could have trouble getting down. All Skydivers rely upon this Newtonian principle to guide them to the dirt.

Oh! And never, under any circumstances jump near a known Spiritual Vortex.

Don't worry, it's all GOOD!
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