New AFFI regualtions

[crashtested 0]

Have i misread this email...

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To become aAFFI you ;

must have held a USPA Coach or Instructor rating for at least 12 months, or have at least 500 jumps
holds a USPA C license or the FAI equivalent

Does this mean a c licence skydiver with 200 jumps and 12 months in the sport can teach AFF ??

Seems pretty crazy to me... even if there a bad ass tunnel rat, there canopy skills will not be up to much, and there teaching the new guys.

Or maybe i have misread this, or this has always been the case...

[jtnesbitt 0]

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Have i misread this email...

Quote
To become aAFFI you ;

must have held a USPA Coach or Instructor rating for at least 12 months, or have at least 500 jumps
holds a USPA C license or the FAI equivalent

Does this mean a c licence skydiver with 200 jumps and 12 months in the sport can teach AFF ??

Seems pretty crazy to me... even if there a bad ass tunnel rat, there canopy skills will not be up to much, and there teaching the new guys.

Or maybe i have misread this, or this has always been the case...

You missed this:

e. logged six hours of freefall time

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[Jbag 0]

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Quote

Have i misread this email...

Quote
To become aAFFI you ;

must have held a USPA Coach or Instructor rating for at least 12 months, or have at least 500 jumps
holds a USPA C license or the FAI equivalent

Does this mean a c licence skydiver with 200 jumps and 12 months in the sport can teach AFF ??

Seems pretty crazy to me... even if there a bad ass tunnel rat, there canopy skills will not be up to much, and there teaching the new guys.

Or maybe i have misread this, or this has always been the case...

You missed this:

e. logged six hours of freefall time

pwned! =D

IHYD

[AndyMan 7]

The full requirements:

a. reached the age of 18 years
b. holds or has held any USPA instructional rating
c. must have held a USPA Coach or Instructor rating for at least 12 months, or have at least 500 jumps
d. holds a USPA C license or the FAI equivalent
e. logged six hours of freefall time
f. completed the USPA AFF Instructor Proficiency Card (applicable portions)
g. successfully proven ability by successfully completing the written and practical AFF evaluation process with a USPA AFF Instructor Examiner (AFF IE)

So yes, if someone got a coach rating when they had 100 jumps, then worked as a coach for 12 months, and somehow managed to get 6 hours of freefall, then yes - they could apply to pass the air skills test. I think their passing this test is unlikely unless they also had some mad-tunnel skills.

If they managed to pass all these items with 200 jumps, then yah - they'd have to be a exceptional skydivier and there's a good chance they'd be a pretty good AFF instructor.

It does not take a PD factory swooper to teach 'A' license canopy skills. Currently, some instructors skip this completely already, so any instruction would be better than what some skydivers are getting now. The TLO's are quite basic, and not difficult to teach.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AggieDave 6]

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It does not take a PD factory swooper to teach 'A' license canopy skills. Currently, some instructors skip this completely already, so any instruction would be better than what some skydivers are getting now. The TLO's are quite basic, and not difficult to teach.

No, but it does take some actual fundamental understanding of canopy control. The percentage of jumpers who come to me for canopy coaching who were taught wholly wrong information in their student progression is a high number. Many of the rest were taught practically nothing at all!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[riggerrob 561]

The key point is holding a USPA Coach or Instructor rating for 12 months before attending an AFF Certification Course. Hopefully the candidate has done a few hundred coach dives - with junior jumpers - during that year. Chasing junior jumpers around the sky and giving them advice on how to improve their in-air skills is a valuable lead-in to an AFF Instructor rating.

Similalry, Canadian Instructors must hold a Coach 2 continuous rating before attending a Progressive Freefall Instructor Course.

IOW Only a fool would attempt to become a freefall instructor before he had done a few hundred coach dives with junior jumpers.

[SRI85 0]

Can tunnel time count as freefall time? i kinda think it should. Or perhaps have it count in some sort of way towards that.

[billvon 2,435]

>Can tunnel time count as freefall time?

No. There is some very important stuff that happens in freefall (like altitude awareness, or ability to fall straight down without references) that you do not experience in the tunnel.

[mutumbo 0]

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>Can tunnel time count as freefall time?

No. There is some very important stuff that happens in freefall (like altitude awareness, or ability to fall straight down without references) that you do not experience in the tunnel.

and the nerves and adrenaline that are involved in the ride to alti.

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[SRI85 0]

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>Can tunnel time count as freefall time?

No. There is some very important stuff that happens in freefall (like altitude awareness, or ability to fall straight down without references) that you do not experience in the tunnel.

i dont disagree, but i thought the tunnel was ideal for finding that straight down belly position.

[crashtested 0]

I missed the 6 hours bit in my email.

OK so lets say with a small person, thats 400 jumps if there jumping at a turbine dz going to 14k.

Is that enough to start teaching AFF, i'm usally the non conservative person here, but i still think this is a low ammount of jump numbers.

It seems ironic that in the same email it states that more people are dying under canopies then any other way, it seems slightly backward to then having people with great air skills, which is either a eceptional flyer or more likely a tunnel rats, to then teach basic canopy skills when at 400 jumps they are still learning the basics themselves.

Or maybe i'm just getting old, maybe 400 jumps is plenty.

Even when writing this i feel like an old fart, god that's depressing.

[wildcard451 0]

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>Can tunnel time count as freefall time?

No. There is some very important stuff that happens in freefall (like altitude awareness, or ability to fall straight down without references) that you do not experience in the tunnel.

i dont disagree, but i thought the tunnel was ideal for finding that straight down belly position.

Yup. All AFF students fall straight down.

[kuai43 7]

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OK so lets say with a small person, thats 400 jumps if there jumping at a turbine dz going to 14k.

Hell, you can cut that down a bit with a wingsuit. Possibly get 'er done by 200....

Right, Sangi?

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[DSE 3]

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I missed the 6 hours bit in my email.

OK so lets say with a small person, thats 400 jumps if there jumping at a turbine dz going to 14k.

Is that enough to start teaching AFF, i'm usally the non conservative person here, but i still think this is a low ammount of jump numbers.

It seems ironic that in the same email it states that more people are dying under canopies then any other way, it seems slightly backward to then having people with great air skills, which is either a eceptional flyer or more likely a tunnel rats, to then teach basic canopy skills when at 400 jumps they are still learning the basics themselves.

Or maybe i'm just getting old, maybe 400 jumps is plenty.

Even when writing this i feel like an old fart, god that's depressing.

You're forgetting wingsuit time, and yes...it applies. There is one AFFI that got his rating with just over 300 jumps at the time, who started wingsuiting (prior to the new BSR) at 65 jumps.

[mjosparky 3]

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>Can tunnel time count as freefall time?

No. There is some very important stuff that happens in freefall (like altitude awareness, or ability to fall straight down without references) that you do not experience in the tunnel.

i dont disagree, but i thought the tunnel was ideal for finding that straight down belly position.

Take away the walls as reference and then fall straight down. Tunnel time is an execellent training tool but not a replacement for freefall.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skyrider 0]

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>Can tunnel time count as freefall time?

No. There is some very important stuff that happens in freefall (like altitude awareness, or ability to fall straight down without references) that you do not experience in the tunnel.

i dont disagree, but i thought the tunnel was ideal for finding that straight down belly position.

Take away the walls as reference and then fall straight down. Tunnel time is an execellent training tool but not a replacement for freefall.

Sparky

tunnels really suck for wingsuits too!

[billvon 2,435]

>but i thought the tunnel was ideal for finding that straight down belly position.

It's a great way to practice it, and it teaches you the right body position, but does not teach you the perception you need to fall straight down. Indeed, it often hurts!

We do a lot of 4way training in the Perris tunnel. It's great for learning center point turns or 3D moves. You can even do real 4-way training in there.

But invariably, newer 4-way people will practice 6's in the tunnel until they have them down, then will go up in the air and end up with massive separation at the end of the block. Why? Because they have trained themselves "stop before you hit the wall." Only works when their _are_ walls.

So it's a great tool, but you need a lot more than tunnel time to become a safe and proficient freefaller.

[chuckakers 370]

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I think their passing this test is unlikely unless they also had some mad-tunnel skills.

You obviously haven't seen some of the piss poor skydivers that have been pushed through the course in the past decade or more.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[AndyMan 7]

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You obviously haven't seen some of the piss poor skydivers that have been pushed through the course in the past decade or more.

You're right, I haven't.

I have seen a lot of grumpy old instructor complaining about how the new guys suck, completely forgetting how badly they sucked when they were new.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[popsjumper 2]

Funny that you said earlier, "...so any instruction would be better than what some skydivers are getting now. "

Well, AndyMan, in this last post...you seem to have missed the point entirely.
It's as much, or more, about knowledge as it is about flying skills.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[AndyMan 7]

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Funny that you said earlier, "...so any instruction would be better than what some skydivers are getting now. "

Well, AndyMan, in this last post...you seem to have missed the point entirely.
It's as much, or more, about knowledge as it is about flying skills.

As usual, you make absolutely no sense. Really, please - stop and think before posting. When you do post, try to be informative and helpful - you know, one of those "good" instructors I'm sure you think you are.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[popsjumper 2]

*whoosh*

Shouldn't you be limited to the cocky/arrogant thread?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[AndyMan 7]

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*whoosh*

Yup, guilty. I haven't understand a single thing you've said in a very long time.

Please, bless the masses. Inform of us your infinite wisdom, lead us to the rock and tell us - let us be as good as you.

We can only hope.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[chuckakers 370]

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You obviously haven't seen some of the piss poor skydivers that have been pushed through the course in the past decade or more.

You're right, I haven't.

I have seen a lot of grumpy old instructor complaining about how the new guys suck, completely forgetting how badly they sucked when they were new.

_Am

Not so. There was a time when new AFF instructors (JM's back in the day) DIDN'T suck. But hey, we have AAD's, so what the hell.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[wmw999 2,149]

Maybe they didn't suck, but they still lacked experience in teaching AFF. They didn't always know how much latitude to give students as they were trying to learn. Not all SL skills were helpful in teaching AFF, and not all skilled SL instructors with good freefall skills became good AFF/JMs.

Me? I didn't suck
Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)