More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[kallend 1,635]

11 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Mandatory thoughts and prayers? Or just the mention of thoughts and prayers on the house floor together with the wish for more good people with guns?

Well, he is a Jesus guy.

First on the list of interesting things to do in Lewiston:  https://www.tripadvisor.com/AttractionProductReview-g40708-d26608865-Crime_Solving_Detective_Experience_Lewiston-Lewiston_Maine.html

[piisfish 135]

6 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Mandatory thoughts and prayers? Or just the mention of thoughts and prayers on the house floor together with the wish for more good people with guns?

Well the shooter should qualify for “good guy with a gun”. Shooting instructor, army reservist. 
 

[Phil1111 913]

2 hours ago, piisfish said:

Well the shooter should qualify for “good guy with a gun”. Shooting instructor, army reservist. 
 

Perhaps a poster child about the success of American gun control. Documented mental illness, made threats to carry out a mass shooting, owns a AR-15 and nothing done to stop him in advance.

[normiss 622]

I don’t understand why it’s ok to regulate a woman’s body to save a fetus, but it’s not ok to regulate the sale of guns to save the life of a child.

 - Sara Spector

[olofscience 422]

“Have you considered blowing up all of Lewiston to ensure you get the bad guy?” Israel asks US.

(credit: a satire site)

[kallend 1,635]

4 hours ago, normiss said:

I don’t understand why it’s ok to regulate a woman’s body to save a fetus, but it’s not ok to regulate the sale of guns to save the life of a child.

 - Sara Spector

Because a bunch of rich white men some 236 years ago didn't think womens' bodies were their own to control but  muzzle loading muskets were cool.

[kallend 1,635]

 Maine does not:

Require background checks on all gun sales

Have an Extreme Risk (Red Flag)  law

Require violent domestic abusers to relinquish their guns

Ban assault style weapons

Limit magazine capacity

Require concealed carry permits

Restrict open carry

Have a waiting period

[billvon 2,406]

Another teen dead.  Shot while walking in the park.  Can't wait for the republicans to use this to call for more guns - if they notice it at all.

A Belmont University freshman has died after being hit in the head by a stray bullet while walking on a trail near the Nashville campus, officials said.

Jillian Ludwig, 18, was shot Tuesday afternoon as she walked on a track in Edgehill Memorial Gardens Park, the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department said in a news release.

“Sadly, Jillian Ludwig passed away during the night,” the department said on social media Thursday morning.

A suspect is in custody in the shooting, which happened around 2:24 p.m., when a man on a street near the park opened fire on a moving car, police said.

[kallend 1,635]

Well, thank you Clarence Thomas and the other morons on the Supreme Court:

https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/news/chicago-judge-lets-five-time-convicted-felon-walk-free/

Glen Prince, 37, already had three armed robberies and aggravated battery of a police officer on his record when he was arrested for robbing three men on a Chicago train in September 2021, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Police found him with cocaine, a stolen credit card, several bullets, and a fully loaded Smith & Wesson, despite a federal law banning convicted felons from owning guns.

But his case was dismissed earlier this month by federal Judge Robert Gettleman, who ruled that laws prohibiting felons from owning guns violate Second Amendment rights, citing a landmark Supreme Court decision last year.

The judge readily admitted that “violence plagues our communities and that allowing those who potentially pose a threat to the orderly functioning of society to be armed is a dangerous precedent.”

However, he said prosecutors failed to prove that felons are excluded from “the people” protected under the Second Amendment.

“Although there are strong policy reasons for doing everything possible to keep guns off our streets and out of communities, this court can find no such historical analog,” Gettleman wrote in his decision.

[normiss 622]

11 minutes ago, kallend said:

Well, thank you Clarence Thomas and the other morons on the Supreme Court:

https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/news/chicago-judge-lets-five-time-convicted-felon-walk-free/

Glen Prince, 37, already had three armed robberies and aggravated battery of a police officer on his record when he was arrested for robbing three men on a Chicago train in September 2021, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Police found him with cocaine, a stolen credit card, several bullets, and a fully loaded Smith & Wesson, despite a federal law banning convicted felons from owning guns.

But his case was dismissed earlier this month by federal Judge Robert Gettleman, who ruled that laws prohibiting felons from owning guns violate Second Amendment rights, citing a landmark Supreme Court decision last year.

The judge readily admitted that “violence plagues our communities and that allowing those who potentially pose a threat to the orderly functioning of society to be armed is a dangerous precedent.”

However, he said prosecutors failed to prove that felons are excluded from “the people” protected under the Second Amendment.

“Although there are strong policy reasons for doing everything possible to keep guns off our streets and out of communities, this court can find no such historical analog,” Gettleman wrote in his decision.

When did American courts start taking away constitutional rights for criminal convictions?

For non-violent crimes it's especially confusing to me.

 

[billvon 2,406]

22 minutes ago, normiss said:

When did American courts start taking away constitutional rights for criminal convictions?

?? From day one.  The right to free assembly is removed if you are convicted and jailed, for example.  And there are frequent cases of court orders preventing assembly with other persons (for example, in a protection order.)

 

[normiss 622]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

?? From day one.  The right to free assembly is removed if you are convicted and jailed, for example.  And there are frequent cases of court orders preventing assembly with other persons (for example, in a protection order.)

 

I guess I missed the voting rights and self defense reasons.

[kallend 1,635]

12 hours ago, normiss said:

When did American courts start taking away constitutional rights for criminal convictions?

For non-violent crimes it's especially confusing to me.

 

:Glen Prince, 37, already had three armed robberies and aggravated battery of a police officer on his record when he was arrested for robbing three men on a Chicago train in September 2021, according to the Chicago Tribune."

Non violent?

[JoeWeber 2,316]

This ought to sell a few guns when in reality it is a strong statement in favor of open carry for hot tea.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/11/07/ca-homeowner-fires-back-armed-intruders-affil-dnt-vpx.kcal-kcbs

[kallend 1,635]

The U.S. just set a record for mass shootings and deaths in a single year

Fatal shootings this weekend in a Vancouver, Wash., suburb and Dallas pushed the nation to 38 mass killings with a gun this year — the highest number of any year since at least 2006. The eight deaths in the latest shootings bring the total death count for 2023 to 197, which is also a record.

 Thanks, Founding Fathers, for your foresight.

 

[GeorgiaDon 340]

16 hours ago, kallend said:

Thanks, Founding Fathers, for your foresight.

Perhaps it's asking too much of the Founding Fathers to have anticipated modern weaponry when all their experience was with muskets.  I'm quite sure I would not be up to proposing laws to govern use of technology 200 years in the future.  Also, at the first census in 1790 the total US population was 3.9 million, of whom 20% were slaves, and mostly people lived in rural areas, not cities.  School shootings and other mass murders were non-existent, and I doubt anyone could have anticipated the modern US fascination with guns for guns' sake.  In the Founding Fathers day guns were utilitarian tools, like plows and axes, not objects of worship as they are to so many today.  Our modern problem with guns is a creature of our own manufacture.

There is also a problem that it has become all but impossible to amend the constitution.  Again that is not the Founding Fathers fault.  They created a system to amend the constitution, and for centuries that was done not infrequently.  It was never easy, but if an idea had widespread popular support it could be done.  In the last 50+ years it has become effectively impossible to amend, largely due to entrenched political polarization in a two-party system.  The interpretation of the 2nd amendment has changed radically in recent decades, away from a view that ties it to participation in militias towards an absolutist right of virtually anyone (including mentally ill people who legally cannot even manage their own financial affairs) to own weapons of almost any description.  Most people support some limitations, such as background checks, but it is politically impossible to amend the 2nd to allow any constraints, even if they are widely supported.

[gowlerk 1,915]

18 hours ago, kallend said:

Thanks, Founding Fathers, for your foresight.

 

34 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

There is also a problem that it has become all but impossible to amend the constitution.  Again that is not the Founding Fathers fault.

There is also the fact that they had to consider the possibility of needing to defend the nation from invasion by meddling imperialist Europeans, especially the English lurking just across the northern border.

Edited December 5, 2023 by gowlerk

[kallend 1,635]

Texas, not to  be outdone:

Dec. 6, 2023Updated 4:40 a.m. ET

A man suspected of killing multiple people in a string of shootings across Austin, Tex., on Tuesday was taken into custody and charged with capital murder and other charges, the police said.

[winsor 186]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Texas, not to  be outdone:

Dec. 6, 2023Updated 4:40 a.m. ET

A man suspected of killing multiple people in a string of shootings across Austin, Tex., on Tuesday was taken into custody and charged with capital murder and other charges, the police said.

I hope he's sent to bed without supper and put to sleep.

[gowlerk 1,915]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

I hope he's sent to bed without supper and put to sleep.

While he's sleeping someone else is plotting the next massacre of innocents. Putting him to sleep is about as effective as a bunch of T&Ps. 

[winsor 186]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

While he's sleeping someone else is plotting the next massacre of innocents. Putting him to sleep is about as effective as a bunch of T&Ps. 

Reduces recidivism slightly.

[SkyDekker 1,129]

18 minutes ago, winsor said:

Reduces recidivism slightly.

Can't reduce recidivism if you kill them before they can reoffend.

[grimmie 176]

And now, UNLV.

Had to call friends to see if their daughter was OK. She is.

Merica 

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

3 minutes ago, grimmie said:

And now, UNLV.

Had to call friends to see if their daughter was OK. She is.

Merica 

Hi Rich,

Insane:  UNLV Active Shooter: What We Know About Las Vegas Shooting (newsweek.com)

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,390]

First, a confession: I have not been following this thread because I got over debating the 2nd Amendment on Usenet way back in college.

Second, a couple years ago I watched many hours of online lectures about the Constitution by Yale Law Professor Akhil Reed Amar. In one of them, he made some fascinating statements about what "well-regulated militia" really meant, which contradicted the claims of both pro-gun and anti-gun sides in the US. I followed up by reading a couple of his books on the Constitution, but did not find that discussion in them.

A week ago, film-maker/journalist Johnny Harris (formerly with Vox), released a video on the topic on "Nebula", (a subscription service). It focused on Switzerland, and drew contrasts on the role of firearms there and in the US. His discussion of the 2nd Amendment dovetails with Professor Amar's explanation.

Today, he put it on Youtube: