Green new deal equals magical thinking

[Coreece 190]

4 hours ago, DJL said:

As an aside, could you imagine a NASCAR race using electric cars?  Talk about emasculation.

Nah, you just have to know how to market it.

"NASCAR GREEN SERIES - RACE AGAINST TIME"  - Sponsored by Tampax?

or

"NASCAR THUNDER BOLT SERIES - RIDE THE LIGHTNING!"  - Sponsored by Voltage IPA?

 

The worst thing for green technology is to market it as green technology. 

[wmw999 2,122]

22 minutes ago, Coreece said:

 

4 hours ago, DJL said:

As an aside, could you imagine a NASCAR race using electric cars?  Talk about emasculation.

Nah, you just have to know how to market it.

"NASCAR GREEN SERIES - RACE AGAINST TIME"  - Sponsored by Tampax?

or

"NASCAR THUNDER BOLT SERIES - RIDE THE LIGHTNING!"  - Sponsored by Voltage IPA?

 

The worst thing for green technology is to market it as green technology. 

 

Only if your market is exclusively incurious money-is-king luddites.

Wendy P. 

[Coreece 190]

4 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Only if your market is exclusively incurious money-is-king luddites.

Markets largely are incurious, which is why it's typically more difficult to find investors that are willing to put up the extra cash to educate the public about products that need to be explained rather extensively, especially those that solve a problem you're not trying to fix or even knew you had.

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

Markets largely are incurious, which is why it's typically more difficult to find investors that are willing to put up the extra cash to educate the public about products that need to be explained rather extensively, especially those that solve a problem you're not trying to fix or even knew you had.

361,000 EV's sold in the US in 2018 (up 81%)

Market for organic food in the US in 2018: $49 billion

13% of all fruits and vegetables sold in the US are organic

Total market for sustainable products in the US in 2018: $128 billion

314,000 new home solar power systems were installed in the US in 2018

Statement in Nielsen poll: "I definitely will/probably will change my consumption habits to reduce my impact on the environment"  Percentage agreeing: 75% (age 21-34) 46% (35-49)  34% (50-64)  So it's going to accelerate.

[johnhking1 70]

8 hours ago, DJL said:

I mean...they never heard of putting cards in the spokes?

I wonder how much those baseball cards I used would be worth now.

[turtlespeed 212]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep.  A whole lot of people have tried EV's and never looked back.  Even a few who swore they would never drive one of those sissy golf carts.

I like golf carts - when you step on the accelerator, the engine in the back starts up and you go.

[billvon 2,400]

8 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I like golf carts - when you step on the accelerator, the engine in the back starts up and you go.

I never thought much about the idea of a fast golf cart (beyond the mods we did at Quincy) but I took a look and sure enough there are golf cart performance shops out there.  Because of course there are.  Plum Quick sells all sorts of motor upgrades, and they even built a golf cart that set the world speed record of 118mph.

[normiss 622]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

I never thought much about the idea of a fast golf cart (beyond the mods we did at Quincy) but I took a look and sure enough there are golf cart performance shops out there.  Because of course there are.  Plum Quick sells all sorts of motor upgrades, and they even built a golf cart that set the world speed record of 118mph.

Ours is a 48v electric, tops out at 25mph.

With a tail wind.

 

Thankfully boogies taught me a lot of respect for golf carts.

 

[billvon 2,400]

15 minutes ago, normiss said:

Ours is a 48v electric, tops out at 25mph.

With a tail wind.

Clearly you need a 96V battery.

[airdvr 197]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

Clearly you need a 96V battery.

Hehe...we have a 48V Club Car.  Batteries died last year.  (6) 8v batteries $900 - $1200 depending.  I'm going to put (4) 12v Deep Cycles in at $75 per.  Hope you never need to replace the Tesla batteries....

Edited May 7, 2019 by airdvr

[billvon 2,400]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Hehe...we have a 48V Club Car.  Batteries died last year.  (6) 8v batteries $900 - $1200 depending.  I'm going to put (4) 12v Deep Cycles in at $75 per. 

Stick one of these in.  It's more $$ but will be way faster (and longer lived.)

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=481&osCsid=c586kp5t6a953phrprslp1mfu0

[gowlerk 1,914]

Yea, we have a basic 48v club car at the DZ. It needed batteries. We looked at the price and bought a used Ford Winstar van instead.

[kallend 1,623]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

I never thought much about the idea of a fast golf cart (beyond the mods we did at Quincy) but I took a look and sure enough there are golf cart performance shops out there.  Because of course there are.  Plum Quick sells all sorts of motor upgrades, and they even built a golf cart that set the world speed record of 118mph.

Meh.  My electric powered R/C plane was clocked at 142mph just yesterday. My best speed so far is 178mph, late last year.

[airdvr 197]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Stick one of these in.  It's more $$ but will be way faster (and longer lived.)

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=481&osCsid=c586kp5t6a953phrprslp1mfu0

How many of those does a Tesla need?

 

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Yea, we have a basic 48v club car at the DZ. It needed batteries. We looked at the price and bought a used Ford Winstar van instead.

What have you done in reparations to your carbon footprint?

[gowlerk 1,914]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

What have you done in reparations to your carbon footprint?

It won't take much. The van runs back and forth from the loft to the bowl picking up TIs and passengers at a weekend DZ. It adds up to about 2 tanks of gas a year.

[turtlespeed 212]

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It won't take much. The van runs back and forth from the loft to the bowl picking up TIs and passengers at a weekend DZ. It adds up to about 2 tanks of gas a year.

Seems like it would be more than that.

 

I have a decent sized footprint - so I have been offsetting mine by donating to nuclear power.

[Coreece 190]

16 hours ago, wmw999 said:

16 hours ago, Coreece said:

The worst thing for green technology is to market it as green technology. 

Only if your market is exclusively incurious money-is-king luddites.

 

13 hours ago, billvon said:

15 hours ago, Coreece said:

Markets largely are incurious, which is why it's typically more difficult to find investors that are willing to put up the extra cash to educate the public about products that need to be explained rather extensively, especially those that solve a problem you're not trying to fix or even knew you had.

361,000 EV's sold in the US in 2018 (up 81%) 

And within 6 years or so GM is expected to sell a million EVs per year, which is still a very small part of the market, but even entry into that low level of mass market success/profitability will be due to reasons other than to "save the planet," and will need to be marketed as such.

 

13 hours ago, billvon said:

Market for organic food in the US in 2018: $49 billion

13% of all fruits and vegetables sold in the US are organic

Yeah, that market is also into essential oils, aromatherapy, himalayan salt lamps, detox foot pads, colon cleansing and refraining from eating anything labeled with ingredients they can't pronounce, like Dihydrogenmonoxide.  And while that represents a strong niche of susceptible people willing to overpay for placebo, it's still makes up a very small part of the market.

 

13 hours ago, billvon said:

Total market for sustainable products in the US in 2018: $128 billion 

314,000 new home solar power systems were installed in the US in 2018

Statement in Nielsen poll: "I definitely will/probably will change my consumption habits to reduce my impact on the environment"  Percentage agreeing: 75% (age 21-34) 46% (35-49)  34% (50-64)  So it's going to accelerate.

To my original point, I think we'd be further along if it was not for the divisive politicizing of AGW that IMO has turned green tech marketing into a liability, so why take the chance?  Better off to just market it as some cool new shit that will make your life better, since those already sold on green tech will buy it anyway.

I think the real motivation into the EV market for companies like GM is the promising opportunities for AVs that offer unparalleled benefits for consumers while increasing profitability tenfold.  Ride-sharing AVs are expected to bring in $300K per vehicle over it's lifetime which is why PAVE was created by practically every key player in the industry to educate the public.  I honestly believe that in the not so distant future, we honestly won't have a need to own a car with the abundance of on-demand AVs ready to pick us up anytime, anywhere - or hell, why not just have it drive thru the "AV Loading Lane" to pick up your groceries, prescriptions, fast food, etc. and deliver it to your house for you?

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

 

And within 6 years or so GM is expected to sell a million EVs per year, which is still a very small part of the market, but even entry into that low level of mass market success/profitability will be due to reasons other than to "save the planet," and will need to be marketed as such.

 

Yeah, that market is also into essential oils, aromatherapy, himalayan salt lamps, detox foot pads, colon cleansing and refraining from eating anything labeled with ingredients they can't pronounce, like Dihydrogenmonoxide.  And while that represents a strong niche of susceptible people willing to overpay for placebo, it's still makes up a very small part of the market.

 

To my original point, I think we'd be further along if it was not for the divisive politicizing of AGW that IMO has turned green tech marketing into a liability, so why take the chance?  Better off to just market it as some cool new shit that will make your life better, since those already sold on green tech will buy it anyway.

I think the real motivation into the EV market for companies like GM is the promising opportunities for AVs that offer unparalleled benefits for consumers while increasing profitability tenfold.  Ride-sharing AVs are expected to bring in $300K per vehicle over it's lifetime which is why PAVE was created by practically every key player in the industry to educate the public.  I honestly believe that in the not so distant future, we honestly won't have a need to own a car with the abundance of on-demand AVs ready to pick us up anytime, anywhere - or hell, why not just have it drive thru the "AV Loading Lane" to pick up your groceries, prescriptions, fast food, etc. and deliver it to your house for you?

I don't think that is near future - 

I consider that to be in my lifetime - 

We are too arrogant, self serving, and proud.

AVs will be at most a 50% share in the global - Maybe higher in Urban areas, but rural - not so much.

It would be nice though.

[Coreece 190]

15 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

AVs will be at most a 50% share in the global

That is until manually driving a killing machine is deemed too dangerous and outlawed! 

[DJL 232]

16 minutes ago, Coreece said:

That is until manually driving a killing machine is deemed too dangerous and outlawed! 

I don't doubt that will happen.  The reason that keeps coming to mind is that people who switch back and forth between self driving and manually controlled vehicles will simply forget that they're not in a self driving car.

[turtlespeed 212]

2 minutes ago, DJL said:

I don't doubt that will happen.  The reason that keeps coming to mind is that people who switch back and forth between self driving and manually controlled vehicles will simply forget that they're not in a self driving car.

Maybe we could make it a constitutional right - 

The right to Bear Cars - 

 

[Coreece 190]

10 minutes ago, DJL said:

28 minutes ago, Coreece said:

That is until manually driving a killing machine is deemed too dangerous and outlawed! 

I don't doubt that will happen.  The reason that keeps coming to mind is that people who switch back and forth between self driving and manually controlled vehicles will simply forget that they're not in a self driving car.

I'd also add that the unpredictable variability of real intelligence is a nuisance and poses a threat to the safety, reliability and harmony of superior artificial intelligence.

[DJL 232]

2 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I'd also add that the unpredictable variability of real intelligence is a nuisance and poses a threat to the safety, reliability and harmony of superior artificial intelligence.

So say we all!

[Coreece 190]

30 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Maybe we could make it a constitutional right - 

The right to Bear Cars - 

I always felt that in today's society, driving was more important to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than many of the top 10 rights in the constitution.  If you had to,  I'm sure many here would easily choose the ability to drive to work everyday over the right to a speedy trial or owning a gun.

Hopefully in the future, AVs will take the power away from the government to holds one's licensing privileges and therefore one's life at ransom.