The Island of Doctor Moreau

[gowlerk 1,912]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

I've been a bit puzzled by the pronoun thing.  How am I to know their preference without asking?

Someone may tell you. If no one does then it's okay to use your best guess. Puzzle solved.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

?? Well, you can listen to other people talk to them, or about them.  Or you can read their email threads.  Or you can just ask.

I mean, suppose you meet someone on the street and you don't know their name.  What do you do?

Or suppose you meet someone named Chris and can't tell if they are male or female.  What do you do?

Or suppose you meet your old friend Sarah, and she just got married, and you don't know if she changed her name when she got married.  What do you do?

I'm 99.9% sure you have experienced these in your lifetime.  And I bet you figured it out then, too.

Hi Bill,

Re:  Or suppose you meet your old friend Sarah, and she just got married, and you don't know if she changed her name when she got married.  What do you do?

BTDT.  My daughter got married in 2000.  A few months later I called her at work to talk to her.  The receptionist said that no Erin B worked there.  The receptionist and I went around & around about her working there.  Finally, the lightbulb went on in my head; she was now Erin W.  Boy, did I ever apologize to that receptionist; probably should have bought her lunch.

Ya gotta keep up with the times.  Or, maybe it is:  Old dogs & new tricks. 

Jerry Baumchen

Edited October 23, 2023 by JerryBaumchen

[Stumpy 256]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

but goes with 'they/them/their

I have a few trans people working with and for me - "they" as a pronoun is the only one I struggle with because I often get it confused with a plural, It's no big deal though.
I've had employees transition while they worked for me as well - usually get it wrong a few times but as long as you aren't doing it intentionally no-one minds. Its so much NOT a big deal I do wonder at the mentality of people such as those higher up in the thread who seem determined to be assholes.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

I have a few trans people working with and for me - "they" as a pronoun is the only one I struggle with because I often get it confused with a plural, It's no big deal though.
I've had employees transition while they worked for me as well - usually get it wrong a few times but as long as you aren't doing it intentionally no-one minds. Its so much NOT a big deal I do wonder at the mentality of people such as those higher up in the thread who seem determined to be assholes.

I agree that the 'normally plural' used in the singular is challenging.

It just 'feels' weird.

Nowhere near as challenging as what they have to go through, so I just go with it.

[billvon 2,400]

58 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

I have a few trans people working with and for me - "they" as a pronoun is the only one I struggle with because I often get it confused with a plural, It's no big deal though.

Yeah I still have trouble with that.  Which I felt bad about for a while.  But a friend of mine (and also Qualcomm's diversity officer) also has trouble with that, and if a gay woman whose job it is to get it right can't always get it right, I don't feel quite as bad.

[ryoder 1,384]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

I've been a bit puzzled by the pronoun thing.  How am I to know their preference without asking?

A clerk at a convenience store in a small mountain town here makes it easy: A large button worn on the shirt that says "My pronouns are...".

[winsor 186]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:20 PM, wmw999 said:

Oh my. You pontificate even better than I do. Good thing I can assign qualities to you without your needing to provide input on what they are. It’s like saying you know art, and can therefore say that Picasso is no artist.

How offensive exactly is it to you to address someone by a pronoun they choose, rather than you? And have you ever actually had to? 

Wendy P. 

"That's DOCTOR Evil!  I didn't spend eight years in Evil University to be MISTER Evil!"

In a sense, choice of pronouns is what's in the script - but there's a line.  As a matter of courtesy, I'll go along with what someone wants to a point.  Divine went by she/her, Harris Milstead went by he/him.  Whatever.  

My problem with Rachel/Richard Levine is its defense of sex reassignment for children.  That's FUBAR, and there's not a chance that I'll 'respect' that position.

If it is limited to him/her, I'll generally go along with it.  If someone wants something else, perhaps 'that royal asshole over there' will suffice.  Or, even better, I'll happily make no reference to them at all.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[normiss 622]

And this is why non-binary people leave their families or move to other states. We have this problem in our family. The oldest generation in the family has a no fucks given attitude as to what you want us to call you, we will still call you the name the family gave you. Even if it's an insulting nickname.

Some people just prefer to be disagreeing assholes. Which I suppose is THEIR pronoun. Which makes it odd given their own personal sense of pride when it comes to their desired pronoun.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

On 10/23/2023 at 4:14 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  Or suppose you meet your old friend Sarah, and she just got married, and you don't know if she changed her name when she got married.  What do you do?

BTDT.  My daughter got married in 2000.  A few months later I called her at work to talk to her.  The receptionist said that no Erin B worked there.  The receptionist and I went around & around about her working there.  Finally, the lightbulb went on in my head; she was now Erin W.  Boy, did I ever apologize to that receptionist; probably should have bought her lunch.

Ya gotta keep up with the times.  Or, maybe it is:  Old dogs & new tricks. 

Jerry Baumchen

I just know this is going to happen to me!

[Coreece 190]

On 10/23/2023 at 6:18 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

my younger sister has a daughter, Alice. Just turned 20. Identifies as female, but goes with 'they/them/their'. 

So that would be, "my younger sister has a daughter, Alice.  They just turned 20.  They identifies as female?"

Is that how it would go?

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Coreece

[mistercwood 287]

21 hours ago, Coreece said:

So that would be, "my younger sister has a daughter, Alice.  They just turned 20.  They identifies as female?"

Is that how it would go?

 

Almost. Just "they identify as female", at the end there.

The fundamental grammar doesn't change, using "they" still modifies the other words the same way it always did in English. Easiest way I find for people to get comfortable with it is to assume you have no idea of the sex/gender of the person you're talking about (e.g. someone mentions their cousin is coming to a party, but gives no more info than that). If you need to refer to them now, it's pretty automatic - "What time are they coming? Can they bring a plate?", etc etc.

[wmw999 2,122]

In large part, it’s an acknowledgement that someone’s gender is not the single most important thing about them, if they choose. Just as many cultures don’t talk about work at parties — work isn’t who you are, it’s what you do on most weekdays.

Wendy P. 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

6 hours ago, Slim King said:

PERFECT!!!!! If you have a COCK.. you are a man.... And the government can make you go to war to die for the rich people....

Here I thought I had a chicken.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Here I thought I had a chicken.

Hi Sky,

Somebody is living in the Dark Ages.  The USA can make anyone of it's citizens go to war.

Jerry Baumchen

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Not unexpected that a Russian troll wouldn't know that, though.

[ryoder 1,384]

6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Sky,

Somebody is living in the Dark Ages.  The USA can make anyone of it's citizens go to war.

Jerry Baumchen

Unless they have a rich daddy who can pay an unscrupulous doctor to make a diagnosis to get them an exemption.

[Coreece 190]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:40 PM, Coreece said:

On 10/23/2023 at 6:18 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

my younger sister has a daughter, Alice. Just turned 20. Identifies as female, but goes with 'they/them/their'. 

So that would be, "my younger sister has a daughter, Alice.  They just turned 20.  They identifies as female?"

Is that how it would go?

 

On 10/26/2023 at 7:05 PM, mistercwood said:

Almost. Just "they identify as female", at the end there.

The fundamental grammar doesn't change, using "they" still modifies the other words the same way it always did in English. Easiest way I find for people to get comfortable with it is to assume you have no idea of the sex/gender of the person you're talking about (e.g. someone mentions their cousin is coming to a party, but gives no more info than that). If you need to refer to them now, it's pretty automatic - "What time are they coming? Can they bring a plate?", etc etc.

Seems more practical to just speak in sentence fragments like wolfriverjoe did in the original quote above.  Or, you could just use relative pronouns:

"My younger sister has a daughter named Alice who just turned 20 and identifies as female."

Problem solved.