Donald Trump Versus Hillary Clinton

[gowlerk 1,929]

Fine, and those that are scared of Trump and all his supporters are paranoid bigots.



Personally, I am more fearful of a President Trump than I am of Islamic terrorism. Mostly because of the vastly greater power of a US President.

That said, I am not overly fearful of either. Both can be contained. Terrorists by the fact that they are largely self defeating. Trump by both the fact that Clinton will beat him soundly. And if not the separation of powers in the US will rein him in.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[The111 1]

Coreeece

***

Quote

People are scared shitless of Islamic extremists, yet the same people that share your fear of Trump supporters, call them paranoid and xenophobic.

No, the people who are scared of all muslims because of Islamic extremists are called paranoid xenophobes.

Fine, and those that are scared of Trump and all his supporters are paranoid bigots.

It is a trivial effort to find a comment thread on a popular right wing site, where not just some, but the majority of all comments wish death upon all Muslims. I linked to one such thread earlier in this thread, and interspersed with the "death to all Muslims" comments were an equal number of "Trump 2016" comments.

Please find the equivalent on different message board, a thread with hundreds of posts, with every other one being (a) death to all Trump supporters and (b) Our Candidate NotTrump 2016.

Fear is one thing. Wishing death on all who slightly resemble what you're afraid of is... scary. I'm afraid of that.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[kallend 1,649]

ryoder

***Deuteronomy 23:2 a concern?
I've actually never understood how jebus himself got into heaven after reading that nugget.

He knew a guy...that knew a guy.

"We Don't Want Nobody Nobody Sent"; Richard J. Daley.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,259]

Coreeece

***

Quote

People are scared shitless of Islamic extremists, yet the same people that share your fear of Trump supporters, call them paranoid and xenophobic.

No, the people who are scared of all muslims because of Islamic extremists are called paranoid xenophobes.

Fine, and those that are scared of Trump and all his supporters are paranoid bigots.

So, basically no-one.

Unlike all of the people who have said very publicly how afraid they are of all muslims.

To they point they fucking panic because a charity doesn't know where one single syrian refugee is, even though it's not even their job to know

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,435]

>That said, I am not overly fearful of either.

Come now; Coreece said you were "scared shitless!" So don't be disagreeing with his strawman.

[billvon 2,435]

> I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump
>and/or his supporters

Who is "scared shitless" exactly?

[normiss 622]

Not me, I pooped twice already and the day ain't over yet!

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

>That said, I am not overly fearful of either.

Come now; Coreece said you were "scared shitless!" So don't be disagreeing with his strawman.

Oh.

I clearly misunderstood when GTAV said this:

"scares the shit out of me"

It IS pretty ambiguous.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

> I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump
>and/or his supporters

Who is "scared shitless" exactly?

GTAV: "scares the shit out of me"

Wolfriverjoe: "it scares the living shit out of me"

SkyDekker only said that it's "scary" - apparently he hasn't shit yet, so he still might be full of it.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[SkyDekker 1,147]

Coreeece

***> I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump
>and/or his supporters

Who is "scared shitless" exactly?

GTAV: "scares the shit out of me"

Wolfriverjoe: "it scares the living shit out of me"

SkyDekker only said that it's "scary" - apparently he hasn't shit yet, so he still might be full of it.

Yes, somebody gaining that much momentum with Hitler type rhetoric is indeed scary.

I mean Nixon had to be all politically correct and call it a war on drugs when what he really launched was a war on blacks and hippies.

Trump doesn't have to use veiled language like that. A lot of hate has built up since the political correctness of the Nixon era.

[gowlerk 1,929]

Coreeece

***>That said, I am not overly fearful of either.

Come now; Coreece said you were "scared shitless!" So don't be disagreeing with his strawman.

Oh.

I clearly misunderstood when GTAV said this:

"scares the shit out of me"


It IS pretty ambiguous.

I agree that many who oppose Trump are right off the reservation in their expressions of fear over the possibility of him winning. Even if he did, it probably won't be that bad.

The people with the most to lose are the Rs. They have good reason to be fearful. The damage he has done to their party already is fearsome. And more will follow soon.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[turtlespeed 212]

gowlerk

******>That said, I am not overly fearful of either.

Come now; Coreece said you were "scared shitless!" So don't be disagreeing with his strawman.

Oh.

I clearly misunderstood when GTAV said this:

"scares the shit out of me"


It IS pretty ambiguous.

I agree that many who oppose Trump are right off the reservation in their expressions of fear over the possibility of him winning. Even if he did, it probably won't be that bad.

The people with the most to lose are the Rs. They have good reason to be fearful. The damage he has done to their party already is fearsome. And more will follow soon.

See - You and I can agree.

I want the GOP to fall on its face and then rebuild and become more than it has ever been.
It will take time - at least one election cycle - One cycle if Trump is elected, many more if Hillary is elected. One cycle if Bernie is elected.

See the reasoning behind my voting for Bernie and / or Trump?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Phil1111 915]

jakee

Not important either way, but I absolutely guarantee you that is not true. There are definitely people who support Trump who are also murderers.

Like this one?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/politics/russia-putin-trump/

"Russia's Putin probably approved London murder of ex-KGB agent Litvinenko: UK inquiry"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-litvinenko-idUSKCN0UZ0Z6

It no wonder why Putin is in love with Trump.
"In an interview with The Washington Post, the Republican frontrunner chided the North Atlantic Treaty Organization or NATO for its expense. He said the U.S. might need to reduce its involvement in NATO in coming years, a move that would flout Washington’s long-standing support for the 28-member military alliance. “We certainly can’t afford to do this anymore,” Trump said. “NATO is costing us a fortune, and yes, we’re protecting Europe with NATO, but we’re spending a lot of money.”
http://fortune.com/2016/03/22/donald-trump-nato/

Then there is foreign policy.

"One of Trump’s foreign policy advisers is a 2009 college grad who lists Model UN as a credential"...

Schmitz slowed or blocked investigations of senior Bush administration officials, spent taxpayer money on pet projects and accepted gifts that may have violated ethics guidelines, according to interviews with current and former senior officials in the inspector general’s office, congressional investigators and a review of internal email and other documents....

He later became a senior official at the Prince Group, the parent company of defense contractor Blackwater.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/03/21/meet-the-men-shaping-donald-trumps-foreign-policy-views/

[gowlerk 1,929]

Quote

One cycle if Trump is elected, many more if Hillary is elected.

Because Hillary will get two terms? Plus set the Dems up for more wins? I don't understand that part, unless you fear she will do a really good job. Which is probably what will happen, she's a very good candidate.

Edit to add-- I think I understand now. You think a term of Trump will be devastating enough to destroy the rot in the R party.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[quade 3]

Quote

Because Hillary will get two terms?

And you know what? This is probably going to come as a shock for some of the folks here, but I would be okay with Hillary being a one term president IF in the next four years the GOP got its act together and put up an actual fiscally conservative candidate without all the other goggledygoop nonsense all of the GOP candidates this go 'round are carrying.

Can we get some GOP candidates who are; fiscally conservative without the hypocrisy of blowing 50% of every income tax dollar on the military industrial complex, agree the government has no interest in our private lives, religion, or bedrooms, agree it's cheaper to educate people and put them to work than to warehouse them as criminals?

If, on the other hand, they decide to continue their support of complete idiots, then they get what they deserve.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[gowlerk 1,929]

I understand what you are saying. But I think the flaw may be that fiscal conservatives, although numerous, are a minority of voters. That's why in the two party system, the more right wing of the parties needs to form a coalition of people with very different agendas to govern.

In Canada we currently have a system with three major parties. Most often the centrist party does best. The two parties in the US are actually both centrist. But each must attract votes from the outside edges of the spectrum to win.

Right now, the right party is in trouble. Largely because it promised too much to the right wing in an effort to hold onto power when in reality a small majority of the population wants to move left.

Add to this the stress of a demographic shift in which white people have somewhat less power. Some of those people, not the majority, but some, are not willing to accept this fact.

It's really about a change. Politicians are scrambling to adapt. Like everyone else. The vast majority of Americans are not really having a problem coping with the change. But at the edges, tempers are fraying. Emerging from these cracks comes The Donald.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[ryoder 1,400]

SkyDekker

I mean Nixon had to be all politically correct and call it a war on drugs when what he really launched was a war on blacks and hippies.

Trump doesn't have to use veiled language like that. A lot of hate has built up since the political correctness of the Nixon era.

Ah, someone has been reading the same article I just read today?

https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 3]

That's a piece of the problem. The real problem, in my opinion (and a few others hold it as well) is the way voting is conducted in the US. Our system tends to promote extremism at the primary level. What would be nice is a system that promotes centrism. In the US, that would literally require an act of Congress and a change in the US Constitution.

I don't see that happening any time soon.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[headoverheels 291]

billvon

> I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump
>and/or his supporters

Who is "scared shitless" exactly?

Not me, but I'm prepping for a colonoscopy tomorrow.

[gowlerk 1,929]

I agree that the primary election system in the US is promoting extremism on the right. And has been since the Tea Party movement. Also on the left, but to a lesser degree. There is Bernie, but other than him the Dems seem to mostly be centrist.

I disagree that a Constitutional Amendment is needed. If that were to happen the results would be unpredictable. In my view what is needed is a more engaged electorate. One that actually votes in the system you already have. If things get bad enough people will come out to vote in primaries and mid-terms.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[quade 3]

gowlerk

I disagree that a Constitutional Amendment is needed.

It would be needed because voting is left up to the states. As long as it's a state's issue, it will always be a mess. That's why I say it requires an Amendment. Voting as a system in the US is horribly broken in so many different ways and it's all a result of leaving it up to the individual states to decide not only how the elections are going to be held, but even up to who actually wins regardless of the popular vote.

This is where this shenanigans about brokered conventions comes in this go 'round and that business in Florida a few years back with "hanging chads" and whatnot.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryBaumchen 1,068]

Hi Ken,

Quote

I agree that the primary election system in the US today is promoting extremism on the right.

IMO there are two things that could ( hopefully ) solve this problem:

1. Get rid of all political parties. Each person would run with no affiliation; just as themselves.

2. Open the primaries to all voters for all candidates regardless of party; the two candidates who get the most votes go to the general election regardless of party.

Just my $0.02,

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,400]

JerryBaumchen

IMO there are two things that could ( hopefully ) solve this problem:

1. Get rid of all political parties. Each person would run with no affiliation; just as themselves.

2. Open the primaries to all voters for all candidates regardless of party; the two candidates who get the most votes go to the general election regardless of party.

Just my $0.02,

Jerry Baumchen

There are several types of runoff voting, all of them vastly superior the clusterfuck we have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runoff_voting

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[GTAVercetti 0]

Coreeece

***> I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump
>and/or his supporters

Who is "scared shitless" exactly?

GTAV: "scares the shit out of me"

Wolfriverjoe: "it scares the living shit out of me"

SkyDekker only said that it's "scary" - apparently he hasn't shit yet, so he still might be full of it.

If you can take what I thought was a clearly hyperbolic statement that he scares the shit out of me (I mean, do you REALLY think I pooped myself over it?) and equate that to people who hate all Muslims and can be SEEN posting online about how they should be murdered, nuked, or killed, well...

I really don't know how to respond. It is so unrelated as to be impossible to correlate in my mind.

Scared of a possibly destructive presidency vs hatred of a whole people.

I can't even.


I wrote about a whole bunch of stuff after this. I erase it because, what is the point? Nothing I say will convince you of anything. There is no debate to be had here.

Par for course for SC I know, but occasionally a fun debate slips through.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Coreeece 2]

GTAVercetti

******> I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump
>and/or his supporters

Who is "scared shitless" exactly?

GTAV: "scares the shit out of me"

Wolfriverjoe: "it scares the living shit out of me"

SkyDekker only said that it's "scary" - apparently he hasn't shit yet, so he still might be full of it.

If you can take what I thought was a clearly hyperbolic statement that he scares the shit out of me (I mean, do you REALLY think I pooped myself over it?) and equate that to people who hate all Muslims and can be SEEN posting online about how they should be murdered, nuked, or killed, well...

I really don't know how to respond. It is so unrelated as to be impossible to correlate in my mind.

Well, if I compared you to xenophobes that actually want all Muslims murdered, nuked or killed, then you'd have a good reason to be all ruffled up - but I didn't, so you don't.

For the most part, I don't really have a problem with you or what you've said. When you said that it scared the shit out of you, it reminded me of a couple other posters that where comparing Trump to Stalin and Mussolini - and how Trump and his supporters were paving the way for the next Hitler or some weasel worded bullshit like that.

GTAVercetti

Scared of a possibly destructive presidency vs hatred of a whole people.

A more accurate comparison would be, Scared of a possibly destructive presidency vs scared of our vulnerability and the actual threat of terrorism in this country.

I don't see anyone in this forum advocating the death of all muslims. What I do see however are people expressing concern for border security and how to handle the very real threat of terrorism - but they are dismissed as paranoid and told that they shouldn't be so concerned - that toddlers with guns are more of a threat than terrorism - it's ridiculous.

But when those same dismissive people become concerned about a destructive presidency and start imagining all these awful things, THEIR fear all of a sudden becomes more valid than those with whom they disagree.

GTAVercetti

I wrote about a whole bunch of stuff after this. I erase it because, what is the point? Nothing I say will convince you of anything.

There is nothing to convince me of. You seem like a fairly reasonable guy and I understand clearly that there are real concerns and legitimate arguments against a Trump presidency, however, going full-blown Godwin isn't one of them. It just irritates me when this nonsense gets so blown out of proportion, that the real pros and cons get drowned out amidst all the madness.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour