Phil1111 911 #1626 February 21, 2018 rushmc***At the low end, $500.00 Derek V Yes, that is at the real low end. Very few of them can be bought for that today https://gun.deals/product/dpms-panther-oracle-556-nato223-rem-16-ar-15-semi-auto-rifle-click-price-match-button-deal-3?view=list https://gun.deals/product/american-tactical-imports-ar15-223556-milsport-16-m4-flat-top-38999?view=list https://gun.deals/product/anderson-msr-ar-15-556-nato-16-barrel-399?view=list Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,912 #1627 February 21, 2018 rushmc *** Quote So now the goalposts move! Go figure. The goal is less mass killings. The method is making the tools used to do them harder to get. Keep your eye on the ball. Squirmin flails squirming flailYou made my night! Good night Hey Marc. How long will it take you to get on the right wing bus and start accusing the survivors of being “crisis actors”. Come on, you know you wanna. Do you have the decency to resist, or are you going to march along like the loyal soldier you always are?Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1628 February 21, 2018 gowlerk ****** Quote So now the goalposts move! Go figure. The goal is less mass killings. The method is making the tools used to do them harder to get. Keep your eye on the ball. Squirmin flails squirming flailYou made my night! Good night Hey Marc. How long will it take you to get on the right wing bus and start accusing the survivors of being “crisis actors”. Come on, you know you wanna. Do you have the decency to resist, or are you going to march along like the loyal soldier you always are? You are getting desperate"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #1629 February 21, 2018 Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #1630 February 21, 2018 QuoteSupporting the 2nd amendment is not supporting "the killing of innocent children." any more than supporting the 1st amendment is supporting hate speech. You know this, but use inflammatory and emotional arguments instead of logical arguments. Not supporting, but certainly understanding it will happen because of it. Logical, normal people understand that supporting unfettered free speech comes with the need to also support people having the right to spew hateful things. To support the right to bear arms comes with the need to support the idea that more innocent people will die. Just like supporting the death penalty comes with the need to support the idea that innocent people will be executed. There really are very few if any perfect systems. So I would hope that those who so blindly support the right to bear arms at least send some flowers, or send some donations to the families who have had to sacrifice their children for your right to bear arms. At least many who support unfettered free speech will support those who protect families from the hate speech of the Westboro Baptist Church. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1631 February 21, 2018 Those are some damn good buys!!! I may have to pick one up! Thanks"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1632 February 21, 2018 DJLSimple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 911 #1633 February 21, 2018 rushmcThose are some damn good buys!!! I may have to pick one up! Thanks You're welcome. They have some really good deals on that site which is sort of a search engine for gun deals. About a year ago someone was selling complete Daniel Defense Ar-15's for $700. But you really have to watch the fine print. Some cheap AR's have "polymer trigger groups". Then others sell used police Glocks as "store demo's" or "counter display's". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #1634 February 21, 2018 DJLSimple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? I'm not him, but it's not really a "simple question", or at least not a question with a simple answer. In the 19th century, slavery became unacceptable and was abolished throughout most of the 'civilized' world. Why was the US the only country that had to fight a war to end slavery? Comparing other countries and their gun laws and death rates without looking at the larger cultural aspects is missing the point to at least some degree."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #1635 February 21, 2018 rushmc***Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. HAHAHAHAAHAA!! I've never seen someone create a "straw man" argument just by saying it's that because you don't care about the differences in the comparison. You can't answer the question with facts and valid points that support your views."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #1636 February 21, 2018 rushmc***Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. Once again, Marc demonstrates that he does not know the meaning of a "straw man argument".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nolhtairt 0 #1637 February 21, 2018 rushmc***I understand the resistance to a gun registry. I really do. I used to be staunchly pro-2nd Amendment. Unfortunately I am realizing more and more that supposedly responsible, law abiding gun owners are anything but, and the systems we have in place to protect the public from gun violence don't work. I find myself drifting away from my pro-gun rights beliefs with every dead child, concert attendee, or battered spouse. Your opinion here is evolving because you're blaming the gun. Not the culture. All the things that you think we should do could be done and it wouldn't change a damn thing. I agree. Take the guns away from society. The nutbags will find some other way to create carnage. Knives, swords, etc. Or even use vehicles to mow people down. The bigger the vehicle, the more carnage. One only need look at what happened the last few years in Europe. One incident claimed at least 80 lives. It has even happened here, in NYC. Nutbags will just find a way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #1638 February 21, 2018 nolhtairt******I understand the resistance to a gun registry. I really do. I used to be staunchly pro-2nd Amendment. Unfortunately I am realizing more and more that supposedly responsible, law abiding gun owners are anything but, and the systems we have in place to protect the public from gun violence don't work. I find myself drifting away from my pro-gun rights beliefs with every dead child, concert attendee, or battered spouse. Your opinion here is evolving because you're blaming the gun. Not the culture. All the things that you think we should do could be done and it wouldn't change a damn thing. I agree. Take the guns away from society. The nutbags will find some other way to create carnage. Knives, swords, etc. Or even use vehicles to mow people down. The bigger the vehicle, the more carnage. One only need look at what happened the last few years in Europe. One incident claimed at least 80 lives. It has even happened here, in NYC. Nutbags will just find a way. That's great, but we're not just trying to stop nutbags. You don't hear about a driveby nutbag nutbagging innocent bystanders in the middle of a drug turf dispute by throwing Honda Civics out the window. The argument that you can't stop domestic or other types of terrorism just by taking away a single weapon is valid but we've also taken many steps in the past to remove easy access to the types of weapons that do the most damage. THE REASON that vehicle ramming has gained prevalence worldwide is because it's become more difficult to get things like bombs and guns into the target area. BUT if you look at any instance of a vehicle attack, knife attacks, sword attack, whatever you'll see that the things that would protect against those (Bollards, the ability to run, shields) would be ineffective against guns. Guns are the EASIEST way to enter an area and inflict damage with an entirely legal object."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1639 February 21, 2018 Phil1111***Those are some damn good buys!!! I may have to pick one up! Thanks You're welcome. They have some really good deals on that site which is sort of a search engine for gun deals. About a year ago someone was selling complete Daniel Defense Ar-15's for $700. But you really have to watch the fine print. Some cheap AR's have "polymer trigger groups". Then others sell used police Glocks as "store demo's" or "counter display's". AR's have really come down. So many people were buying them at higher bucks thinking they were going to make money when Hillary got elected. Trump got elected and people were holding rifles like those you posted about, that they had spent $1000 on and now are only worth what you showed us."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #1640 February 21, 2018 rushmc***Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. So again, and regardless of what you give a damn about and I said nothing about the amount being profoundly different and purely an academic question: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1641 February 21, 2018 DJL******Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. HAHAHAHAAHAA!! I've never seen someone create a "straw man" argument just by saying it's that because you don't care about the differences in the comparison. You can't answer the question with facts and valid points that support your views. You do not have facts. I know the comparisons. You did not post any!!! You have your opinions. Period!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1642 February 21, 2018 DJL******Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. So again, and regardless of what you give a damn about and I said nothing about the amount being profoundly different and purely an academic question: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? Post your comparisons. Otherwise, you go nothing!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #1643 February 21, 2018 wolfriverjoe***Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? I'm not him, but it's not really a "simple question", or at least not a question with a simple answer. In the 19th century, slavery became unacceptable and was abolished throughout most of the 'civilized' world. Why was the US the only country that had to fight a war to end slavery? Comparing other countries and their gun laws and death rates without looking at the larger cultural aspects is missing the point to at least some degree. There's no doubt that other countries are unique but the also have the same social disparities, poverty, drug use, history of firearms possession, gang issues, and mental health issues. There's no perfect fit but other countries DO deal with the same things we do. So again: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #1644 February 21, 2018 QuoteSolving the mental health part is a LOT harder than just solving the gun part. Incidence of mental health issues is no greater in the US than other western countries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1645 February 21, 2018 SkyDekkerQuoteSolving the mental health part is a LOT harder than just solving the gun part. Incidence of mental health issues is no greater in the US than other western countries. With the differences in reporting rules you have NO WAY of making that claim with any confidence!!!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #1646 February 21, 2018 >The nutbags will find some other way to create carnage. Knives, swords, etc. Or even >use vehicles to mow people down. Yes, they will. You might only reduce deaths by 25%. That would be 7500 lives a year - twice the number killed in the 9/11 attacks. Every year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #1647 February 21, 2018 rushmc*********Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. So again, and regardless of what you give a damn about and I said nothing about the amount being profoundly different and purely an academic question: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? Post your comparisons. Otherwise, you go nothing! Gun related homicides in high-income countries per 1 million people 2010: South Korea: 0 Japan: 0 UK: 0 Netherlands: 2 Spain: 1 Hungary: 1 Ireland: 4 Australia: 2 Germany: 1 New Zealand: 2 Italy: 2 Sweden: 2 Denmark: 2 Slovakia: 2 Portugal: 5 Norway: 0 Czech Republic: 1 Belgium: 3 Canada: 5 France: 2 Austria: 2 Finland: 3 USA: 36 Gun related suicides and unintentional or undetermines gun deaths in high-income countries per 1 million people 2010: South Korea: 0 Japan: 0 UK: 2 Netherlands: 3 Spain: 5 Hungary: 8 Ireland: 6 Australia: 8 Germany: 10 New Zealand: 10 Italy: 10 Sweden: 13 Denmark: 14 Slovakia: 16 Portugal: 13 Norway: 18 Czech Republic: 17 Belgium: 15 Canada: 18 France: 26 Austria: 28 Finland: 33 USA: 66 Here's another for 2012: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts And here are charts for us compared to the worst countries and 3-rd world countries (AKA Shitholes) many which are fully embroiled in drug wars: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/11/06/562323131/gun-violence-comparing-the-u-s-with-other-countries"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #1648 February 21, 2018 SkyDekkerQuoteSolving the mental health part is a LOT harder than just solving the gun part. Incidence of mental health issues is no greater in the US than other western countries. I never claimed otherwise. But that seems to be the route Trump is taking at the moment - trying to solve the issue by tackling mental health (which, while laudable is only part of the issue IMO) rather than going to the root cause. It's a tougher problem to solve because there are so many variables, it;'ll require so many systems and types of communication, and it's a people-based problem rather than an object-based one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #1649 February 21, 2018 DJL************Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? They are not as far apart as the data you would use might suggest. That said, I don't give a damn about any other country. You press a straw man argument. So again, and regardless of what you give a damn about and I said nothing about the amount being profoundly different and purely an academic question: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States? Post your comparisons. Otherwise, you go nothing! Gun related homicides in high-income countries per 1 million people 2010: South Korea: 0 Japan: 0 UK: 0 Netherlands: 2 Spain: 1 Hungary: 1 Ireland: 4 Australia: 2 Germany: 1 New Zealand: 2 Italy: 2 Sweden: 2 Denmark: 2 Slovakia: 2 Portugal: 5 Norway: 0 Czech Republic: 1 Belgium: 3 Canada: 5 France: 2 Austria: 2 Finland: 3 USA: 36 Gun related suicides and unintentional or undetermines gun deaths in high-income countries per 1 million people 2010: South Korea: 0 Japan: 0 UK: 2 Netherlands: 3 Spain: 5 Hungary: 8 Ireland: 6 Australia: 8 Germany: 10 New Zealand: 10 Italy: 10 Sweden: 13 Denmark: 14 Slovakia: 16 Portugal: 13 Norway: 18 Czech Republic: 17 Belgium: 15 Canada: 18 France: 26 Austria: 28 Finland: 33 USA: 66 Here's another for 2012: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts And here are charts for us compared to the worst countries and 3-rd world countries (AKA Shitholes) many which are fully embroiled in drug wars: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/11/06/562323131/gun-violence-comparing-the-u-s-with-other-countries See how you frame the issue? "Gun related" Means exactly nothing. Give us the murder rate per 100K in those counties. That gives us an apples to apples comparison. If not, you still got nothing. It is not the tool dude. And it never will be."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #1650 February 21, 2018 rushmc***QuoteSolving the mental health part is a LOT harder than just solving the gun part. Incidence of mental health issues is no greater in the US than other western countries. With the differences in reporting rules you have NO WAY of making that claim with any confidence!!! There is simply no reason to believe Americans are more mentally deficient than other western societies. Are you going to claim they are, or could be? edited to remove a faulty apostrophe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
