More mass shootings

[Hooknswoop 19]

I want to clarify, because I'm not sure I am reading your response correctly.

You believe that if Canada and Europe had the same gun laws, meaning legal AR-15's etc., that the mass shooting rate would remain much lower?

Derek V

[PhreeZone 15]

TSA's budget for airline passenger screening is $4,822,911,000 per year for 180 airports. Per their own numbers they set a record of 17,089,533 passengers screened in a single week (7 days) in 2017.

There are 26000+ public High schools, 16000 middle schools and 9000+ private seconday schools with the number of students estimated to be 15 million in grades 9-12 with an additional 9 million students in the middle schools. The math on this works out to needing screeners in 42000 locations with an average of 571 students per location. TSA officer pay is $25k-38K per year. Staffing one officer at every school would cost 1,050,000,000 (Thats 1.05 Billion) Per year.

There is no way that 1 screener could do 570 students in a timely manor in the morning with out students waiting hours in line so you would need to have 15-20 screeners per school (cost 15-20 Billion annually) to run multiple lines and have extras for subs when needed. Add in the scanning equipment (10k per metal and 170k per millimeter scanner) and thats another 2-4 Billion in start up costs. Most schools would need modified to have a screening area set up and a queue area to keep students while they are in line to gain access to the school each morning. Issue is that as soon as everyone is in the classroom for the day almost every screener would no longer be needed so in reality you are looking for armed, trained part time workers for 2-3 hours every day but have the flexibility to come in for longer if there are school delays. Said workers would need to be able to pass drug tests, background checks and then be issued firearms so they would need to attend that training and certification annually also?

This could be done if someone was able to get a 25-30 Billion annual program up and running in the US and increase US government employment by another 650,000 employees. Just as an example the US military has a total of 1,200,000 members in all branches worldwide.

My wife could not get the school to buy a iPad for her computer literacy centers that was a few hundred dollars and they even had it budgeted (PTO eventually did after she bought one on her own)- where the hell are they going to come up with the budget for a program like this?

If you take the $25 Billion and divide it over every taxpayers return annually - each person would need to pay about $200 more per year for this type of program to be funded.

Oh - I forgot about the 67000 elementry schools needing the same program. (Another 30 Billion on them and another 300000 screeners)

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jclalor 12]

55 million students, perhaps 25 students killed a year in rampage shootings. I think statistically a child is much safer at school than being at home. It would be hard to justify a billion dollars of security to save a single life. And as far as arming teachers; See how fast your average 9mm toting cop rushes in against a most likely suicidal nut, armed with a semi auto high velocity rifle with high capacity clips. Wow!!! As I write this, the news just stated an armed school security guard decided not to engage the shooter in Florida and has resigned. I’ve seen a couple of videos on you tube of a single cop going against a semi auto rifle, the cop is never on the offensive.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Hooknswoop

I want to clarify, because I'm not sure I am reading your response correctly.

You believe that if Canada and Europe had the same gun laws, meaning legal AR-15's etc., that the mass shooting rate would remain much lower?

Derek V

Yes.

However until American society becomes more like Canadian or European society, something will have to be done to keep firearms out of the hands of not only criminals and the insane, but also angry people who blame others for their failures and have poor impulse control.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,396]

>I don't think the NRA has a problem with metal detectors and/or properly trained and
>vetted armed personnel in schools.

Right. They have a problem with restrictions on gun ownership - any restrictions. At all. HnS is a great example of their thinking here.

Thank God most organizations are not so blindly allegiant to their agendas. If they were, nothing would have changed after 9/11 - because HOW DARE YOU add any restrictions on flying! HOW DARE YOU!

[lummy 4]

This is going to play well with the " we need good guys with guns in school to protect against bad guys" argument

The armed security guard, a Broward County sheriff assigned as school resource officer, waited outside the building while the shooting went on inside.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/22/armed-sheriffs-deputy-stayed-outside-florida-school-while-mass-killing-took-place/?utm_term=.6790705c893f

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Right. They have a problem with restrictions on gun ownership - any restrictions. At all. HnS is a great example of their thinking here.

Really??? You really think I am a good example of the NRA's stance?

Derek V

[BIGUN 1,053]

Quote

TSA's budget for airline passenger screening is $4,822,911,000 per year for 180 airports. Per their own numbers they set a record of 17,089,533 passengers screened in a single week (7 days) in 2017....

It doesn't have to cost that much. Put one or two or three (dependent on pop density for that school) highly armed veteran with tactical or combat experience on perimeter security who has children in THAT school. S/he will have a vested interest in ensuring nothing happens. Then advertise it.

How Does Israel Do It? They figured it out 40 years ago.

Another question to ask: Since Biden, Bush & Clinton passed the gun-free zones act(s). How many school shootings before that point in time and how many after?

Yesterday, a student in Muskogee brought a gun to school. He got snatched up by the Muskogee Public Schools Campus Police. Yes, we have armed campus police at our schools. Now if Oklahoma can figure out how to afford it - perhaps other states should give us a call.

And, the gun-free zone law Act has an exemption clause for teachers to already carry on school grounds. There's ~20 states that exercise that exemption.

EDIT: called it a law - Act

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gowlerk 1,911]

Quote

How Does Israel Do It? They figured it out 40 years ago.

They have very strict gun controls. That's how they do it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-dismisses-us-gun-lobbys-inaccurate-claim-about-gun-laws/

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[BIGUN 1,053]

gowlerk

Quote

How Does Israel Do It? They figured it out 40 years ago.

They have very strict gun controls. That's how they do it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-dismisses-us-gun-lobbys-inaccurate-claim-about-gun-laws/

Within the context of my entire response - thank you for proving my point.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

After 9/11 we fixed the airport issue pretty quickly.

After 9/11, we implemented security theatre for public air travel. But, to paraphrase Randall, the most under-appreciated component of our road air safety system is that most people aren't murderers. That's how it's always been.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

winsor

***Simple question to you: Why do other developed countries not have as much of a problem (per capita) as the United States?

Simple answer: demographics.

It's a simple answer, to be sure. It just doesn't match the question asked.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

DanG

I know no one wants to hear it, but the difference is the easy access to high power, high capacity, high firing rate weapons.

The easy access makes it MUCH more likely someone can act on a really bad idea before any intervention can occur. The rest helps ensure that carnage is maximized.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 18]

jcd11235

***I know no one wants to hear it, but the difference is the easy access to high power, high capacity, high firing rate weapons.

The easy access makes it MUCH more likely someone can act on a really bad idea before any intervention can occur. The rest helps ensure that carnage is maximized.

And yet the biggest school shooting in recent history had nothing to do with any long guns or an AR-15. You guys really are losing it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

And again nobody's replied to what has been the largest number of people killed in a school massacre ever in this country. And that happened in 1927 in Michigan. Did we have any AR-15s then?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,122]

See that's the problem. These school shootings just need better branding.

[rushmc 18]

Hey Dan. I'm replying to you because somehow you've determined that you are the Arbiter of what is normal!

Not!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,122]

rushmc

And again nobody's replied to what has been the largest number of people killed in a school massacre ever in this country. And that happened in 1927 in Michigan. Did we have any AR-15s then?

Oh well, in that case all is fine.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

See that's the problem. These school shootings just need better branding.

That's pretty weak! Even for you.

And by the way, you did know that AR15s are used in less than 2% of the shootings in this country correct?

Sorry. I doubt it. Cuz you don't care.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

You know what's great? To finally see a leader, the president, who is addressing the real issue. Who's sitting and listening to the people and putting forward common sense proposals to help avert this from happening again. Public schools are one of the few public places where we do not have security today! Hell Hollywood stars have more security than our schools do.

I'm getting tired of listening to the idiots who think that the law abiding people are the one who need to be punished. The law-abiding are the ones that need to have their guns taken away. That somehow guns in this country is a problem. No it's not! What's been happening to this country's been happening for the last 70 years and it's being pushed by the left. There are solutions to take care of this issue. Limiting guns to law abiding people is not it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

Put one or two or three (dependent on pop density for that school) highly armed veteran with tactical or combat experience on perimeter security who has children in THAT school. S/he will have a vested interest in ensuring nothing happens. Then advertise it.

How Does Israel Do It? They figured it out 40 years ago.

Yes, more yahoo wannabes with guns making challenges to troubled teens who feel desperate and need help. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to have the police state you describe. Escalating he situation is rarely a good idea in the civilian world.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

rushmc

And yet the biggest school shooting in recent history had nothing to do with any long guns or an AR-15. You guys really are losing it

I see you still don't understand the difference between a single observation and a trend.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 18]

jcd11235

***And yet the biggest school shooting in recent history had nothing to do with any long guns or an AR-15. You guys really are losing it

I see you still don't understand the difference between a single observation and a trend.

So posting that only 2% of mass shootings are committed with AR-15s does not recognize a trend?

We also know that in very recent school shootings the most fatalities came because of pistols. Are you going there next?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

jcd11235

***And yet the biggest school shooting in recent history had nothing to do with any long guns or an AR-15. You guys really are losing it

I see you still don't understand the difference between a single observation and a trend.

People under the age of 21 not being able to purchase handguns came about because of the 1968 gun law passed by Congress. The reason that gun law was passed was because between 45 and 65% of all criminal acts done with guns were done with handguns. That is still the case today. Going after the AR-15 is juvenal and childish and emotional at best

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

rushmc

******And yet the biggest school shooting in recent history had nothing to do with any long guns or an AR-15. You guys really are losing it

I see you still don't understand the difference between a single observation and a trend.

So posting that only 2% of mass shootings are committed with AR-15s does not recognize a trend?

We also know that in very recent school shootings the most fatalities came because of pistols. Are you going there next?

Quote

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.

Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.

June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.

Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.

June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.

March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.

May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.

Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.

Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.

June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.

Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.

Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.

Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

Source ("I'm feeling lucky" Google result for ar-15 mass shootings)

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