More mass shootings

[yoink 321]

rushmc

Well
More people die by knives every year than they do by rifles. So your getting closer.

I'm sure more people are killed by cutlery than by a left-handed, 1904 rifle that's painted red, too. But that's just as fucking dumb a comparison.

Subdividing sets to perform a comparison is deceitful and ignorant - just like the source you pulled this shit from.

Let's do this like we're educating a toddler:

BLANK is to KNIFE, as RIFLE is to GUN. What's the answer?

Compare guns and knives... go on. I'll wait.

[Phil1111 910]

rushmc

***. Weapon types will be next, and it's just as meaningless.

That is a really good point!

I have asked a couple of people here if they want AR15's banned are they going after these too?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&qpvt=browning+bar+hunting+rifles&FORM=IGRE

No answer as of yet.

They function EXACTLY the same!

WRONG, as usual. Browning has attempted to morph a sporting gun into an assault weapon. Now has a 10 round detachable magazine, pistol grip. Thanks for pointing that out.

Next step will be 30-50 round detachable mags and bump stocks. Clearly needs banning.

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

I guess you're all correct. This why nothing gets done. Liberals demand action, but only if it's the action they desire.

Correct. We typically don't like wasting time with nonsensical actions. The chain of events leading to school/mass shootings needs to be broken long before the shooter arrives for the final act.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

rushmc

They function EXACTLY the same!

Are you seriously claiming form factor is not an important attribute of a gun?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 2,396]

>just employ veterans who are armed and place them in the schools.

Yep. I am sure parents would feel safer with people like Lee Harvey Oswald (a Marine vet) David Berkowitz (Army) Jeffery Dahmer (Army) and Timothy McVeigh (Army) guarding their kids.

[billvon 2,396]

>Liberals demand action, but only if it's the action they desire.

That is exactly right. Personally, I only "demand" things that will be effective. Compare that to conservatives, who demand action; it doesn't have to work as long as it hurts a liberal.

[airdvr 197]

Ok...let's hear them.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[yoink 321]

airdvr

Ok...let's hear them.

Solving the mental health part is a LOT harder than just solving the gun part.

But how about this for a start?

Ban private sales of guns completely - everything HAS to go through a licensed gun dealer. Like escrow.

Give gun dealers access to a mental health database. If someone is flagged on that then no sale is allowed and the cops are notified.
Make becoming a transfer center real audit of capability each year (secret spot checks and the like to avoid pencil-whipping transfers).

If a gun is found to have changed hands without going through the escrow process, both parties (seller and buyer) get 5 years in jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.


The problem with a system like this is that mental health is a massive grey area - what constitutes someone who can't own a firearm? I don't know...
That's why it's much easier to police the items themselves than the people who use them.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

That is exactly right. Personally, I only "demand" things that will be effective.

Well, you did think that the Colorado universal background check would be enforceable.

Derek V

[billvon 2,396]

>Ok...let's hear them.

Sure.

1) Ban sales to all violent criminals. Period. No 'exceptions' as exist now.
2) Ban sales to people who have been adjudicated to be mentally deficient.
3) Ban sales to convicted stalkers.
4) Background checks for every gun sale. Period.

[DanG 1]

A. You keep bringing that up. When the state police announce that they think a law is unenforceable, and then don't try to enforce it, does that mean that the law was actually unenforcable? If I declare that I can't run a 5k, and then refuse to show up on the day of the race, was I right? Have you heard the phrase self-fulfilling prophesy?

B. You declined to respond to a previous question. Allow me to repeat. What right did Coloradoans give up?

- Dan G

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Ban private sales of guns completely - everything HAS to go through a licensed gun dealer. Like escrow.

We have that in Colorado. It is not enforceable.

Quote

Give gun dealers access to a mental health database. If someone is flagged on that then no sale is allowed and the cops are notified.

We have the NICS background check. The military is getting it's act together. That system needs to be improved so that anyone that should not be allowed to purchase a firearm is placed on that list very quickly. Also, it needs to be staffed well enough that the 72-hour rule is never used.

As for a mental health database, how does one get put on it? Ho does one get removed from it? Remember, you are denying someone's constitutional right, do not take it lightly.

Quote

Make becoming a transfer center real audit of capability each year (secret spot checks and the like to avoid pencil-whipping transfers).

The ATF already does spot checks of FFL dealers.

Quote

If a gun is found to have changed hands without going through the escrow process, both parties (seller and buyer) get 5 years in jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

And how would you enforce this?

Quote

The problem with a system like this is that mental health is a massive grey area - what constitutes someone who can't own a firearm? I don't know...
That's why it's much easier to police the items themselves than the people who use them.

Much easier to take away rights from everyone (what is the percentage of law abiding vs. non-law abiding gun owners?) than address the issue. We could put breathalyzers in every vehicle. We could require manufacturers to make vehicles that cannot exceed the speed limit. We don't. Why?

Derek V

[Hooknswoop 19]

A- Without 100% gun registration, that law is not enforcable. It is not a self-fulfilling prophecy.

B- The freedom to loan a friend a rifle to take hunting or the range. The freedom to go buy an 11+ round magazine. When the ASW ban was law, and you could only buy 10-rounds or less magazines, people switched form 9mm to .45. Not exactly the result they were looking for.

[billvon 2,396]

>When the state police announce that they think a law is unenforceable, and then don't try
>to enforce it, does that mean that the law was actually unenforcable?

Perhaps I should try that here.

It's impossible to have a rule prohibiting personal attacks against gun supporters, because they are inherently violent themselves and face a lot of righteous anger when kids are shot; there's simply no way to stop those sorts of personal attacks and we shouldn't try.

I will then prove this by not enforcing that rule when gun supporters are personally attacked.

See? Proof.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

Well, you did think that the Colorado universal background check would be enforceable.

Laws are enforceable if society has the will to enforce them.

Quote

Much easier to take away rights from everyone (what is the percentage of law abiding vs. non-law abiding gun owners?)

It will be necessary to take rights away from people reduce the current problem. Sooner or later you and all of America will need to accept that.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[airdvr 197]

billvon

>Ok...let's hear them.

Sure.

1) Ban sales to all violent criminals. Period. No 'exceptions' as exist now.
2) Ban sales to people who have been adjudicated to be mentally deficient.
3) Ban sales to convicted stalkers.
4) Background checks for every gun sale. Period.

All I see is ban, ban, ban. You're not living in the real world. We've banned many things...drugs, murder, prostitution. We even tried to ban the sale of alcohol once. Instead of wanting to make new laws how about we deal with the US as it is today.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[yoink 321]

Hooknswoop

Quote

Ban private sales of guns completely - everything HAS to go through a licensed gun dealer. Like escrow.

We have that in Colorado. It is not enforceable.

Derek V

Hence my suggested law that IS enforceable, but you won't consider because you don't want to give up your right to be able to shoot in a school.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

All I see is ban, ban, ban. You're not living in the real world. We've banned many things...drugs, murder, prostitution. We even tried to ban the sale of alcohol once. Instead of wanting to make new laws how about we deal with the US as it is today.

America is not living in the real world. Effective gun control exists all around the first world with only positive effect. Only in failed states do we see the level gun violence greater than yours. Even most of the "shit hole countries" are doing better in this regard.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Hence my suggested law that IS enforceable, but you won't consider because you don't want to give up your right

to defend myself.

Derek V

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

See? Proof.

Have you ever been wrong?

Derek V

[yoink 321]

Hooknswoop

Quote

Hence my suggested law that IS enforceable, but you won't consider because you don't want to give up your right

to defend myself.

Derek V

No need to defend yourself if guns don't work in public.


And talking of minorities, would you like to compare statistics of gun owners vs gun owners who have ACTUALLY had to use a gun to defend themselves while they're out of their home?

Talk about pandering to a paranoid minority...


There's also the fact that any gun restriction will take at least a century to propagate through society, so even if you voted for my suggestion there's basically no chance that if would affect your ability to defend yourself as you're so worried about. You and I will be long dead before it becomes a standard.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

No need to defend yourself if guns don't work in public.

You will never get 100% of the guns to have your GPS/trigger interrupter installed.

Quote

And talking of minorities, would you like to compare statistics of gun owners vs gun owners who have ACTUALLY had to use a gun to defend themselves while they're out of their home?

Is that number similar to the percentage of skydivers ACTUALLY saved by their AAD?

Derek V

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Hence my suggested law that IS enforceable, but you won't consider because you don't want to give up your right to be able to shoot in a school.

Do you have your cell phone settings so that it is disabled while you are in a moving vehicle?

Do you have a breathalyzer/immobilizer installed in your vehicle(s)?

Do you have a device that limits your vehicle's top speed to the speed limit?

Don't want to give up your right to get drunk and do 110-mph through the playground while checking facebook?

When I play by your rules, the game gets MUCH easier........

Derek V

[wmw999 2,121]

You have a thought about something to do. Since most didn't jump all over it as the solution to everything, that doesn't mean that we all know what the right answer is.

But if armed guards aren't enough (as they weren't in this case), and mental health in general isn't predictive of violence (some subsets are), what besides adding more expensive and life-threatening non-teaching stuff to what teachers have to master can be proposed?

I posted a question before, about the fact that there was an armed guard at the Florida school. Would you really want your kids to go to a school with an armed guard at every door? Or do we start blocking off doors so that people can't come in? What do we do about fires?

The determination of something that might work lies in thinking through the downstream effects; costs, impacts on time, jobs, what has to be given up, and how much does it matter?

As rehmwa would have said, "for the children." But that's not really a good justification for a solution that's not well thought out

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airdvr 197]

wmw999

You have a thought about something to do. Since most didn't jump all over it as the solution to everything, that doesn't mean that we all know what the right answer is.

But if armed guards aren't enough (as they weren't in this case), and mental health in general isn't predictive of violence (some subsets are), what besides adding more expensive and life-threatening non-teaching stuff to what teachers have to master can be proposed?

I posted a question before, about the fact that there was an armed guard at the Florida school. Would you really want your kids to go to a school with an armed guard at every door? Or do we start blocking off doors so that people can't come in? What do we do about fires?

The determination of something that might work lies in thinking through the downstream effects; costs, impacts on time, jobs, what has to be given up, and how much does it matter?

As rehmwa would have said, "for the children." But that's not really a good justification for a solution that's not well thought out

Wendy P.

Although I don't know for sure I suspect the "armed guard" was a $10/hr rent a cop who won't put his life on the line for others like we might want. I want Rambo at the door.

For me, the bottom line is we can't legislate our way out of this. People who are looking to the government to solve this will continue to be severely disappointed.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne