9 African Americans shot in a church in Charleston SC

[kallend 1,635]

Anvilbrother

what we need is a system to check these people out before they buy a gun, and like a waiting period too. Ooh wait we do...

Quote

WASHINGTON — The man accused of killing nine people in a historically black church in South Carolina last month should not have been able to buy the gun he used in the attack, the F.B.I. said Friday, in what was the latest acknowledgment of flaws in the national background check system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/us/background-check-flaw-let-dylann-roof-buy-gun-fbi-says.html?_r=0

As some of us have said over and over, no new laws are needed. what's needed is efficient and strict enforcement of the existing laws (which have already been deemed to be constitutional).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 622]

That was an amazing mistake.

When will the person that made the mistake be fired and/or charged?
If you can screen correctly and fully accurately, you shouldn't be doing that job.
It's pretty important.

[Anvilbrother 0]

normiss

That was an amazing mistake.

When will the person that made the mistake be fired and/or charged?
If you can screen correctly and fully accurately, you shouldn't be doing that job.
It's pretty important.

That must be how we got in that situation the person that could was fired, and the person that couldn't was hired.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[normiss 622]

oops.

Fat fingers!

"Can't" was my intent.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

That was an amazing mistake.

When will the person that made the mistake be fired and/or charged?
If you can screen correctly and fully accurately, you shouldn't be doing that job.
It's pretty important.

I'm betting that is a Freudian slip.

It does seem that is the SOP when any government worker is hired.

If you CAN do the job, we will find someone to not be able, and hire that person. Just look at the TSA if you need examples. Yay government.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ryoder 1,390]

Interesting:
Dwayne Stafford was arrested 18 months ago, and has been sitting in jail ever since because he could not raise the $100,000 bond.
Last Thursday, he attacked Dylann Roof.
On Friday, his bond was posted, and he was released.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dylan-roof-jailhouse-assailant-released-posting-bond-article-1.2740943

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kelpdiver 2]

Why are people in jail for 18 months before trial? Not really speedy. By the time convictions happen, time served is most of the sentence.

[jclalor 12]

kelpdiver

Why are people in jail for 18 months before trial? Not really speedy. By the time convictions happen, time served is most of the sentence.

They've waived their right to a speedy trial.

[ryoder 1,390]

jclalor

***Why are people in jail for 18 months before trial? Not really speedy. By the time convictions happen, time served is most of the sentence.

They've waived their right to a speedy trial.

Accused != guilty

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

kelpdiver

Why are people in jail for 18 months before trial? Not really speedy. By the time convictions happen, time served is most of the sentence.

In this case, the evidence is overwhelming and so I doubt the delay is due to the prosecution not being ready. Since it is a death penalty trial, I would speculate that the 18 months is to allow the defense to prepare for trial.

Also, while I don't know if this problem applies to Roof's case, in many districts Republicans have blocked Obama's nominees to all levels of federal courts, creating long backlogs. This article describes the problem; although it is two years old the problem has only become worse since then.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kelpdiver 2]

GeorgiaDon

***Why are people in jail for 18 months before trial? Not really speedy. By the time convictions happen, time served is most of the sentence.

In this case, the evidence is overwhelming and so I doubt the delay is due to the prosecution not being ready. Since it is a death penalty trial, I would speculate that the 18 months is to allow the defense to prepare for trial.


Talking about the guy who assaulted him, and then made bail the next day. His was not a capital case. And then there's the oddness of Roof 'not pressing charges' for the incident. It's pretty obvious it occurred, as well as obvious that there was a breakdown in protocol for handling Roof's safety. We don't let battered women 'not press charges;' what's different here?

I'm also not a fan of the tendency of the minority party (seems more common by the GOP, but not unique to them) to block even voting on nominations. It shouldn't require a constitutional amendment to put a deadline on this, but maybe the only way to end it.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

***what we need is a system to check these people out before they buy a gun, and like a waiting period too. Ooh wait we do...

Quote

WASHINGTON — The man accused of killing nine people in a historically black church in South Carolina last month should not have been able to buy the gun he used in the attack, the F.B.I. said Friday, in what was the latest acknowledgment of flaws in the national background check system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/us/background-check-flaw-let-dylann-roof-buy-gun-fbi-says.html?_r=0

As some of us have said over and over, no new laws are needed. what's needed is efficient and strict enforcement of the existing laws (which have already been deemed to be constitutional).

and since this thread was resurrected ... if after 3 days the reviewer had the information needed to deny - why do nothing for 2 months? The counter to the GOP suggestion about a 3 day time limit for special cases is countered with it being non viable, but the reality is you still have a fairly open and shut case of someone illegally obtaining a weapon, and usually lying on the 4473 on top of it. Coupled with the ID information, they have all they need to pursue further.

But hardly surprising when we don't even bother to pursue the denials.
Out of 73,000 denials in 2010 - 62 were referred for prosecution. 13 guilty pleas obtained.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-claim-that-the-brady-law-prevented-15-million-people-from-buying-a-firearm/2013/01/23/77a8c1d4-65b4-11e2-9e1b-07db1d2ccd5b_blog.html

[ryoder 1,390]

Charleston Church Shooting Suspect Will Represent Himself In Death Penalty Trial:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/28/503580432/charleston-church-shooting-suspect-will-represent-himself-in-death-penalty-trial

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 622]

President Lincoln comes to mind....
“He who represents himself has a fool for a client”




(given how often Lincoln has made comments on the Internets makes me somewhat skeptical of the origins of this quote though...)

[gowlerk 1,916]

normiss

President Lincoln comes to mind....
“He who represents himself has a fool for a client”




(given how often Lincoln has made comments on the Internets makes me somewhat skeptical of the origins of this quote though...)

I don't think anyone would argue that Dylan Roof is not a fool.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[nolhtairt 0]

Dylann Roof found guilty of all charges. No surprise there. He showed no emotion. Nothing.

I support the death penalty for this evil scumbag. However, I would also support putting him in prison and left to fend for himself against all the blacks that are in there too. He won't last a week.

[Bob_Church 7]

gowlerk

***President Lincoln comes to mind....
“He who represents himself has a fool for a client”




(given how often Lincoln has made comments on the Internets makes me somewhat skeptical of the origins of this quote though...)

I don't think anyone would argue that Dylan Roof is not a fool.

Except that I think he's going to be successful. He wanted to stir up bad feelings between the races and look what we're getting. Race baiters like CNN are pretending like the only black victims of gun violence in the last 50 years died at the hands of police or Dylann Roof. How many neighborhoods will this get burned down, how many police shot and how much more silent resentment among white people will be engendered by having to pretend like we're the only ones who shoot black people, despite Chicago just passing the 700 mark of black on black killings for 2016?

[wmw999 2,130]

You know, I just don't see the "all blacks that died, died at the hands of evil racists and police" narrative that a lot of others apparently see. Yes, of course those stories make the news; they're more of the man-bites-dog variety. But if you look at any local newspaper, especially the inner pages, you'll see a much more realistic view of what's going on, who's dying violently, and at whose hands.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tkhayes 132]

generally I am strongly against the death penalty but reserve that there always a time and place for pretty much everything.

That fucker can die one of those painful slow misguided lethal injection procedures for all I care.

And if he gets idolized by his 'followers and countrymen', then so be it. They are all free as well to follow his footsteps to their own 'end of life' decisions if they choose.

I do not want these cunts in my back yard.

[kallend 1,635]

tkhayes

generally I am strongly against the death penalty but reserve that there always a time and place for pretty much everything.

That fucker can die one of those painful slow misguided lethal injection procedures for all I care.

And if he gets idolized by his 'followers and countrymen', then so be it. They are all free as well to follow his footsteps to their own 'end of life' decisions if they choose.

I do not want these cunts in my back yard.

Based on his other inappropriate appointments, maybe Trump will appoint him Commissioner of the EEOC.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DanG 1]

If anyone deserves the worst punishment we can mete, it's Roof. That being said, I don't think he should get the death penalty because I think the death penalty is bad public policy. Besides, he's 22. What's worse, a minute of potential agony, or 50+ years locked up in essentially solitary confinement like the animal he is?

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

What's worse, a minute of potential agony, or 50+ years locked up in essentially solitary confinement like the animal he is?

Torture is not a legitimate argument for or against the death penalty.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

Quote

Torture is not a legitimate argument for or against the death penalty.

Who said anything about torture? I think being locked up is worse than death. If you disagree that's fine, but if being locked up is torture than we're going to need to make some serious changes to our criminal justice system.

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

Quote

Torture is not a legitimate argument for or against the death penalty.

Who said anything about torture? I think being locked up is worse than death. If you disagree that's fine, but if being locked up is torture than we're going to need to make some serious changes to our criminal justice system.

so a treatment that's "worse than death" in your book isn't a form of torture.....interesting

I'll spell it out for the slow ones in the crowd - The death penalty is about removing a threat to society - it's about the innocent people and their expectation of safety (not the desire of some for revenge). It's not about trying the make the criminal "feel as bad as we can possibly make him feel". That's a childish position and a non-starter to the debate of pro vs con on the DP. It's the worst strawman of the bunch, and sadly, it's used in various forms by both sides of the debate.

So starting out with a "What's worse" comment as if it is the prime motivating factor of justice, is, at best, an emotional tactic that should be rejected immediately. Justice isn't about making 'you' feel better by maximizing someone's pain (which is twisted), it's about making 'everyone' actually safer.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

rehmwa

...The death penalty is about removing a threat to society - it's about the innocent people and their expectation of safety (not the desire of some for revenge). It's not about trying the make the criminal "feel as bad as we can possibly make him feel"...

Not strictly true.

While a part of any sentence in a criminal case is "removing the threat to society", part is also punishment.

Some sentences involve what is basically a "time out", where the person has to sit in a cell as punishment. The DP punishes a person by ending their life.

We can argue back and forth about which is a "worse" punishment, ending the life or forcing someone to live it in a prison environment.

Given that not a whole lot of long-term inmates commit suicide, I'd think that says a good bit about which is worse.

But that doesn't mean that the "worse" one is torture.
Although there are some claims that the conditions that prisoners in the "Supermax" facilities are in (pretty much solitary confinement) do constitute torture.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo