The American police officer

[skycop 0]

These officers are examples of the what the average American police officer is.
These officers were investigating a domestic, they were interviewing one of the involved parties. An unknown vehicle drove up and started firing at them. Watch what the officer in the lower left corner does. He grabs the person they were interviewing, puts him on the ground, steps over the guy, and shields him from gunfire. This was instantaneous, even though they didn't know if the guy could have possibly been involved.
Listen to what the guy says toward the end, "get those motherfuckers".
This is what the vast, vast majority of police officers are like, I know hundreds, and almost all of them would have done the same thing with hesitation.
http://q13fox.com/2015/01/07/seattle-police-release-video-of-frightening-ambush-officers-seen-scrambling-to-return-fire-raw-video/

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Stumpy 256]

I don't disagree.

That doesn't mean something doesn't need to be done about those that aren't like that.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Anvilbrother 0]

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That doesn't mean something doesn't need to be done about those that aren't like that.

and just how many are there that you speak of? You wouldn't suggest there is a huge issue without data would you? How could you present a solution without knowing the size of the problem.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[skycop 0]

The 24 hour news cycle would lead you to believe misconduct is rampant, it's not.
I've arrested other cops, doctors, lawyers, nurses, pilots, etc.
None of these other occupations suffer from the actions of a few, medical malpractice/mistakes kill thousands of people every year.
This video is indicative of the average cop, and what he/she would do for you in this type of situation. This wasn't staged, just watch the reactions. Listen to the radio tapes of the last few active shooter incidents, calm rational response in the face of chaos.
Look at the Boston bombing video, after the first blast the cops run right toward it, without hesitation.
In the current climate this video should be shown under this context by the 24 hour news cycle, but it won't. It will be a local story, and possible a blurb nationally.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Stumpy 256]

Anvilbrother

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That doesn't mean something doesn't need to be done about those that aren't like that.

and just how many are there that you speak of? You wouldn't suggest there is a huge issue without data would you? How could you present a solution without knowing the size of the problem.

I didn't say anything about the size of the issue at all. You should be careful with your reading.
The police have a perception problem currently that they need to do something about. It doesn't matter whether there was one case of discrimination/racism/unlawful behaviour or 100,000 - the powers that be need to be shown to be doing something about it, rather than habitually exonerating people who are clearly in the wrong. The us vs them mentality is not helping anyone. That includes both the protestors (for want of a better word) and the kneejerk reaction of those like yourself that assume the police are in the right.

Whether you like it or not, unless the police solve the perception problem things will continue to get worse. They need to "be the bigger man".

(FWIW I have a lot of respect for the police and what they do. A good friend of mine on here was a cop - I am sure some of you know who I am referring to
Doesn't mean there isn't a problem.)

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Anvilbrother 0]

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I didn't say anything about the size of the issue at all.

So you said there is an issue, but you dont know if its 1 cop, a dozen cops, or all 600k cops do I have that right.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Stumpy 256]

whoosh

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Anvilbrother 0]

There is no fucking woosh, quit crawfishing. You stated

Quote

That doesn't mean something doesn't need to be done about those that aren't like that.

Clearly you think there are those out there that need to have something done about how they are doing their job. So how many of the cops are there that need to be dealt with?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,400]

>This is what the vast, vast majority of police officers are like, I know hundreds, and
>almost all of them would have done the same thing with hesitation.

Agreed. Most cops set examples the rest of us should aspire to emulate.

[GD64 1]

skycop........even though I have criticized LE from time to time I do recognize (to some degree) what a tough job you have. I recently attended my best friends brothers retirement party (25 years in large metro area). As the night wore on and things got loose, it seemed the number one complaint across the board was the "revolving door" justice system. The same criminals being put back on the street over and over again by judges and prosecutors. They expressed that sure, there are budget concerns, but a lot of the decisions made on who goes to trial is made for political purposes. Moving on up in the future, and all the free exposure (nightly news, etc.) can't hurt. Anyway, their take. I'm not sure what the answer is for 10%-15% of society that acts this way. The three strikes thing in Cali didn't really seem to work that well. IMO too many people with drug offenses that became "strikes". Maybe limit to violent criminal acts. But perhaps one of our resident barristers would make a case for unconstitutional sentencing guide lines, iduno.

[skycop 0]

Had to get the dig in about the muzzle discipline. What a surprise, a critique in the second paragraph.
They were taking rounds, the situation went from zero to one hundred in a second.
I'm sure the debrief will cover that, thanks for bringing it up, and your tactical prowess.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[lawrocket 3]

Anvilbrother

Quote

That doesn't mean something doesn't need to be done about those that aren't like that.

and just how many are there that you speak of? You wouldn't suggest there is a huge issue without data would you? How could you present a solution without knowing the size of the problem.

Cops have the deck stacked against them. Like politicians and lawyers, the reputation is earned. No-knock warrants for bullshit things? Checkpoints? Custodial stops?

A few bad cops can ruin the perception. Just as cops deal with the public as if every person is the 2% that would cause them harm, the public approaches police the same way.

I'd think a cop, who treats everyone as a threat unless demonstrated otherwise, would understand the public treating every cop as a threat unless proven otherwise. Mutual mistrust. Kind of a mutual misunderstanding. Cops treat the People with mistrust. The People treat the police with mistrust.

Playing the percentages, they are about on par.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

I think the overwhelming majority of cops are good cops, I also think the overwhelming majority of those cops turn a blind eye to the illegal actions of the few bad ones.

That's the problem that needs solving.

[Anvilbrother 0]

From my experience it's the exact oposite. No one wants to get caught up in the shit storm brought on by a cop that does stupid shit, and he is outed pretty quickly. Just like the lazy ones that sit in a call too long to avoid other reports, or dodges calls aright around the corner. People get tired of doing all their work and quickly notify others of the situation. Gossip travels fast in the police and fire world, and if your a lazy, stupid, or a dangerous shit bag everyone will know real quick. You get moved to dispatch, the jail, or some other area.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,400]

>From my experience it's the exact oposite. No one wants to get caught up in the shit
>storm brought on by a cop that does stupid shit, and he is outed pretty quickly.

You must know some different cops than I do. I have found that a) cops do about as much stupid shit as anyone else and b) they "have each other's backs."

> People get tired of doing all their work and quickly notify others of the situation.

It's not about doing someone else's work. It's more along the lines of "OK, no one saw anything, right? Then we don't have to do any extra work."

[Anvilbrother 0]

Non civil service department, everyone out to protect themselves, no safety net, could be fired for any reason without recourse ends up making for a system where the parts that don't work get found really fast, and not hid under the system.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,400]

>Non civil service department, everyone out to protect themselves

Again, if you think cops see their jobs as "every man for himself" you know different cops than I do.

[normiss 622]

Yessir!

Cops are just like the rest of us. Human.
Like the majority of people I've had interactions with in my life, most of them are good people.

[jclalor 12]

Anvilbrother

From my experience it's the exact oposite. No one wants to get caught up in the shit storm brought on by a cop that does stupid shit, and he is outed pretty quickly. Just like the lazy ones that sit in a call too long to avoid other reports, or dodges calls aright around the corner. People get tired of doing all their work and quickly notify others of the situation. Gossip travels fast in the police and fire world, and if your a lazy, stupid, or a dangerous shit bag everyone will know real quick. You get moved to dispatch, the jail, or some other area.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

[skycop 0]

In the "Thin Blue Line" is actually very thin when it comes to real misconduct. Cops are like anyone else and will roll when pressured, believe me, I've seen it happen.

Every cop I know would not tolerate criminal misconduct, including me. This turning a blind eye is again perpetuated by all forms of media. I've seen it on TV show so it must be true. Police work is alot like combat, hours and hours of boredom and mundane tasks interrupted by moments of sheer terror, ask the cops in the video.

For a "bad" cop to succeed he/she has to get by several layers of oversight, mainly being his peers, supervision, administration, the court system and the media. Police detractors are quick to point out what they see as "bad" cops. Good cops have bad days, all cops are thrust into no win situations daily, sometimes several times daily. Yet complaints compared to the number of contacts are extremely low.

I will say some good cops are a bit edgy, they will push boundaries but they get results. But the good ones know what boundaries to push, the "bad" ones eventually push themselves out of the job.

I always tell young guys or guys I used to train one simple thing, there will always be more bad guys. Never compromise yourself just to make a case, it's not worth it. Pushing limits on a regular basis will get you in trouble and tarnish your image in court. Judges and juries see through the guys who are constantly pushing limits.

I've been sued and involved in several lawsuits, each time I would have done the same thing. Something being ugly doesn't mean it's wrong. Day to day police work can get very ugly, most regular people have no idea how ugly it can get, yet be justified.

Also like any profession, good cops make mistakes, sometimes they are deadly, most times not. There is a video of an off-duty officer accidentally shooting himself in an elevator. I know this guy, he would be one all would classify as a good cop, very involved in the community and has been for a long time. He made a mistake, but you don't hear all the good the man has done. One of the best and most experienced pilots I know ran an airplane out of gas, he made a mistake, doesn't make him any less of a pilot. But the internet makes everyone an expert.

I will agree it takes too long to get rid of guys who continually get in trouble or make a mistake that would lead a reasonable person to believe they should look for another profession. In large cities arbitration ties the hands of administration in getting rid of some "bad apples".

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[wmw999 2,122]

I live in Houston. We have an ongoing case now of a homicide unit which was lax, with a particular homicide officer who was so lax he was fired, and the firing was upheld by the arbitrator (this almost never happens here). This went on for years. Interestingly enough, in a city with a reasonably balanced population, nearly all of he neglected cases were minorities

I fully realize there's more to the story of this "poor downtrodden officer" and his many co-workers, who either also ignored cases or ignored his slacking off (their disciplinary actions were all overturned ).

It's worth considering that the stories of non-police are also complex and deserving of consideration. Not always in the moment, when fast judgment needs to be made and action take , but in the aftermath, when aid needs to be rendered to a wounded perp, or when a stop is reviewed. Because that adds to the judgment the next time, just as a jumpers judgment is improved with a dispassionate analysis of their own and others' emergencies and reactions.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

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Look at the Boston bombing video, after the first blast the cops run right toward it, without hesitation.

Hey, lawyers do that, too.

[normiss 622]

[skycop 0]

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Hey, lawyers do that, too.

If the explosion was raining dollar bills I'm sure they would.

Running toward ambulances after the fact doesn't count......;)

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Andy9o8 0]

skycop

Running toward ambulances after the fact doesn't count......;)

Of course it does. First of all, running in traffic is dangerous. Especially in wing-tips. And at the scene of the accident the vehicles could be leaking dangerous hydrazine fumes.