The American police officer

[skycop 0]

You are exactly right, good PIO's get out ahead of the story, not so good ones struggle to keep up. One common thread is the media continues to push, in a vacuum of information they will literally make things up.

A good PIO prevents the vacuum from happening or keeps the vacuum to a minimum. It is the media's job to push and get answers, but they are often very irresponsible in the initial reports.

Especially the AP level and up, local outlets often understand and give the PD the benefit of the doubt. This only happens after years of good communications and building of positive relationships.

I'm currently working on a side project to train PIO's and administrators. I've been talking with a former newspaper reporter who was a victim of the crash of print media. We are looking at doing some seminars to help with the flow of information, use of social media, and the pitfalls involving the lack of timely communication.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Andy9o8 0]

Anvilbrother

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You raise valid points.... but the competing interest is that in the absence of a capable PIO, the result is often either departmental stonewalling

When faced with a possible crime, what does the ACLU, any lawyer, and anticop group suggest you do? STFU and call your lawyer. In a police involved shooting they are just doing the same thing. Why advocate anyone blow up their case with a PIO that says stupid shit too early and seals the court of public opinions thoughts on the incident?

Also valid points, but I think Skycop answers those points pretty well (see especially the bolded parts):

skycop

good PIO's get out ahead of the story, not so good ones struggle to keep up. One common thread is the media continues to push, in a vacuum of information they will literally make things up.

A good PIO prevents the vacuum from happening or keeps the vacuum to a minimum. It is the media's job to push and get answers, but they are often very irresponsible in the initial reports.

I'm currently working on a side project to train PIO's and administrators. I've been talking with a former newspaper reporter who was a victim of the crash of print media. We are looking at doing some seminars to help with the flow of information, use of social media, and the pitfalls involving the lack of timely communication.

Mind you, skycop and I both contemplate a well-trained and capably-performing PIO, not the amateur (at that skill) who says stupid shit, as you're concerned might happen.

[skycop 0]

My comments would be in a perfect world. PIO's are often hamstrung by political leadership, legal departments, or prosecutors. The reasons are often valid.
It's a Catch-22 shit sandwich, the cops are the meat.

My personal blame is squarely with the media and 24 hour news cycle in the recent incidents. The internet and social media have exploded the information flow exponentially. However the internet and social media spread flat-out incorrect information, rather than correcting misinformation major media outlets spread it and fanned the flames.

Rodney King was actual misconduct, and it was condoned by the justice system. Policing changed for the better, the current "incidents" aren't nearly as clean cut, but the media promulgated misinformation.
Sure Ferguson could have done a better job, but they were facing an uphill battle from the very beginning.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 622]

Are you blaming the media for all events?

[mpohl 1]

This thread is not about mcordell, the Cop.

It is about US cops. You might not be a problem cop; but US cops as a whole ARE a problem.

Let me just state that I have been on the receiving end (visited) many jurisdictions all over the world. US cops and their attitude is among the worst!!!

P.S.: One thing I never could wrap my head around. Why don't they have two officers to a patrol car? Immediate back-up! Plus save on vehicle expenses. That's how it is done in many other places in the world.

P.P.S.: Of course, we know that America is exceptional and doesn't compare with any other place!

mcordell

***

And yes, your military background supports my statement. You were trained as a soldier: to combat, to kill, to occupy. That's your training. Except, WE don't like that and the attitude that comes with it.

Referencing all you know about me, which is limited to my posts here, what part of my attitude exactly do you not like?

[Anvilbrother 0]

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It is about US cops. You might not be a problem cop; but US cops as a whole ARE a problem.

There are a fraction of cops that need to be dealt with by their respictive departments. The MEDIA has you fooled into thinking a crisis is happening to sell ads and keep ratings up.

Quote

Let me just state that I have been on the receiving end (visited) many jurisdictions all over the world. US cops and their attitude is among the worst!!!

If you approached them the way you approach us here, I dont doubt they gave you attitude. Its a a two way street.

Quote

P.S.: One thing I never could wrap my head around. Why don't they have two officers to a patrol car? Immediate back-up! Plus save on vehicle expenses. That's how it is done in many other places in the world.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ You have 50 square miles to cover and X amount of money. You can double up and cover half the area half assed, or ride solo and cover more area. In a perfect world with unlimited funds they would choose option number 2 and double man the cars.

***P.P.S.: Of course, we know that America is exceptional and doesn't compare with any other place!
Your god dammed right it is!

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[skycop 0]

Not at all,
I'm blaming them for fanning the flames in an already bad situation. I've pointed out numerous things about these situations that simply weren't true.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[mpohl 1]

So, how much is your life worth?

If we can save $5k over the course of the year in policing expenses, you'd be willing to be killed by undertrained/staffed police?


P.S.: On a much broader philosophical note. Which I don't expect an Anvilbrother to even remotely grasp. Don't even try!

But isn't it all about being alive? None of us wants to die; we all want to live. Because we will be dead most of the time. What binds us (US, Islam, Russian, Gay, Lesbian, etc.) together is the will to live!

Anvilbrother

***

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ You have 50 square miles to cover and X amount of money. You can double up and cover half the area half assed, or ride solo and cover more area. In a perfect world with unlimited funds they would choose option number 2 and double man the cars.

***P.P.S.: Of course, we know that America is exceptional and doesn't compare with any other place!
Your god dammed right it is!

[mpohl 1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTjwcyvzqvg

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

So, how much is your life worth?

If we can save $5k over the course of the year in policing expenses, you'd be willing to be killed by undertrained/staffed police?

Its not about saving anything. Is about not simply having the money PERIOD. If your tax base give you X amount of money to hire 10 guys that means you can cover 50sq miles with 10 guys that's it. You can conjure up imaginary dollars, or manpower to put in the vehicles. Its also impractical and worse off for the people your serving to take those 10 guys who all could be out patrolling, and taking calls to stick them together, now you have 5 cars on the road. Less area patrolled, less calls handled, more time to wait on an officer to show up. Sure its safer for the officer, but now the citizens are less safe. Pls try to get that idea passed in your local town.


I am seeing that you are speaking about things you have no clue about if you dont already know these things. You might also want to google Peace Officer Standards and Training. I cant think of any departments in my state or region that do not mandate their officers have this certification, or at a minimum go through a boot camp designed around this course.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[mpohl 1]

Perfect.
So, your life is worth $5k or less. Budget constraints; I can understand that. Actually, I would peg it at $2k at the most.

My life is worth a lot more.

Anvilbrother

Its not about saving anything. Is about not simply having the money PERIOD.

[normiss 622]

Can't disagree with you!
Thanks for the clarification.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Perfect. So, your life is worth $5k or less. I would peg it at $2k at the most. My life is worth a lot more.

Quote

Budget constraints; I can understand that. Actually

Lets separate that into what it really is a PA, and then a comment that makes no sense are you high right now?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[mpohl 1]

I don't do personal attacks
I leave that to the cops.

Like ABQ?

Anvilbrother

Quote

Perfect. So, your life is worth $5k or less. I would peg it at $2k at the most. My life is worth a lot more.

***Budget constraints; I can understand that. Actually

Lets separate that into what it really is a PA, and then a comment that makes no sense are you high right now?

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi mcordell,

Quote

police don't arrest people for recording them

In Oregon it is illegal to make an audio recording of anything any LEO says. The law/legislation ( the last that I knew ) had not caught up to make video recording illegal.

Jerry Baumchen

[Anvilbrother 0]

What country are you originally from Germany im guessing?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[mpohl 1]

I am an American citizen.

How about you?
Let me guess.I Have-No-Clueistan?

Anvilbrother

What country are you originally from Germany im guessing?

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

I am an American citizen.

How about you?
Let me guess.I Have-No-Clueistan?

Birth-
Current-America
Death-N/A

Please fill in the blank answer to continue.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[mpohl 1]

"I'm not surprised. I live in a country bordering Germany (the Netherlands), with a population of 17 million. If a police officer fires a warning shot it makes national headlines."

http://gawker.com/5909283/german-police-really-dont-like-shooting-at-people-used-only-85-bullets-last-year

Anvilbrother

Quote

I am an American citizen.

How about you?
Let me guess.I Have-No-Clueistan?

Birth-
Current-America
Death-N/A

Please fill in the blank answer to continue.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

I'm not surprised. I live in a country bordering Germany (the Netherlands), with a population of 17 million. If a police officer fires a warning shot it makes national headlines.

In your country how many legally owned and illegally owned firearms are there? In the US there are estimated 270 million total guns.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Andy9o8 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi mcordell,

Quote

police don't arrest people for recording them

In Oregon it is illegal to make an audio recording of anything any LEO says. The law/legislation ( the last that I knew ) had not caught up to make video recording illegal. Jerry Baumchen

Yes and no. As far as I can tell from a very quick (but not exhaustive) search of Oregon statutes (I don't practice in Oregon), Oregon is one of many (i.e, not all) US states that criminalize the recording the audio of any conversation without all of the participants' advance consent. So it's not so much that recording a LEO as such is illegal, but that there is no exception carved-out of the law exempting someone when the person he's recording happens to be a LEO.

(PS - there might be some states that do specifically prohibit recording LEOs, but I haven't searched for that, so I was only referring to Oregon.)

[champu 1]

I agree that the 24 hour news cycle and almost certain litigation against the department, the officer, or both makes the PIO's job incredibly difficult.

It's a shame it's so difficult to come out and say, "Even if we determine the officer didn't violate any policies in the use of deadly force we obviously don't like it when people die so, as always, we're going to review the incident to learn from it and continuously drive down serious and fatal injuries."

Things generally don't get better if acknowledging they could means you get eaten by the machine.

/edited: its vs. it's

[mpohl 1]

To begin with, the US is my country.
But it is not the only country I know. Intimately.

You are intelligent/argumentative enough to look up gun laws and ownership in Germany.

But, so here it goes:

(1) US Cops kill at an outrageous rate because of (i) poor training, (ii) military background that is not conducive to civilian policing, (iii) they must assume that everyone they encounter is packing;

(2) (1) (iii) is a direct result of (i) NRA, (ii) uneducated citizenry thinking that ad verbatim readings of a 200 yr old document apply today (not unlike the strict adherence seen w/ radical muslims); (iii) every idiot being on the loose w/ a weapon because of lack of adequate mental healthcare (thank Reagan and the GOP for that.)

So we are getting what we deserve as a society in our current state. And that's a lot of dead bodies.

IT'S A DISGRACE!

Anvilbrother

Quote

I'm not surprised. I live in a country bordering Germany (the Netherlands), with a population of 17 million. If a police officer fires a warning shot it makes national headlines.

In your country how many legally owned and illegally owned firearms are there? In the US there are estimated 270 million total guns.

[mcordell 2]

Andy9o8

***Hi mcordell,

Quote

police don't arrest people for recording them

In Oregon it is illegal to make an audio recording of anything any LEO says. The law/legislation ( the last that I knew ) had not caught up to make video recording illegal. Jerry Baumchen

Yes and no. As far as I can tell from a very quick (but not exhaustive) search of Oregon statutes (I don't practice in Oregon), Oregon is one of many (i.e, not all) US states that criminalize the recording the audio of any conversation without all of the participants' advance consent. So it's not so much that recording a LEO as such is illegal, but that there is no exception carved-out of the law exempting someone when the person he's recording happens to be a LEO.

(PS - there might be some states that do specifically prohibit recording LEOs, but I haven't searched for that, so I was only referring to Oregon.)

That makes me wonder if the law can be applied when a person reasonably should have known they were being recorded. If that's the case, any officer with a dash-cam would argue they can legally record citizens during contacts because a citizen should reasonably know they are being recorded during an encounter with police. IF that is the case, then wouldn't it then be unreasonable for an officer to arrest someone for recording them if that same officer has a dash or body cam? After all, the incident is being recorded so what difference does it make how many angles there are?

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[mcordell 2]

mpohl

(1) US Cops kill at an outrageous rate because of (i) poor training, (ii) military background that is not conducive to civilian policing, (iii) they must assume that everyone they encounter is packing;

(2) (1) (iii) is a direct result of (i) NRA, (ii) uneducated citizenry thinking that ad verbatim readings of a 200 yr old document apply today (not unlike the strict adherence seen w/ radical muslims); (iii) every idiot being on the loose w/ a weapon because of lack of adequate mental healthcare (thank Reagan and the GOP for that.)

So we are getting what we deserve as a society in our current state. And that's a lot of dead bodies.

IT'S A DISGRACE!

The constitution does in fact apply, without regard to it's age. The legal system of this country is based upon that document and the rights afforded by it. The beacon of hope for you however is that citizenship of this country is not compulsory and you have a choice. You can spout off about how "cops kill at an outrageous rate" and give all the reasons you want, but your statements are not backed by supportive evidence or reliable statistical data.

Your statements have revealed a significant deficit on your part when it comes to actually understanding the laws and government of this country and your comparison of supporters of the constitution of the United States to radical muslims is nothing short of offensive. Every single member of the military has sworn to uphold the constitution of the United States and I don't think they would take too kindly to your comparison.

The last of your statements I will address is your comparison to training in the military and law enforcement. Law enforcement is not trained in the same manner as the military. Yes some of us served in the military prior to serving in law enforcement. You have specifically stated that prior military service comes with an attitude people hate. In case you aren't aware (which you seem to be slightly out of touch with reality) military members work all kinds of jobs when they get out. Working in law enforcement is no different. Just because someone was trained to do a job in the military does not mean they are unfit for further employment. I served in the infantry. I was trained to kill enemies of the United States. That's what the infantry does. I have also worked for a satellite tv company. I didn't kill any of my customers. Clearly I was somehow able to overcome the brainwashing I must have received to be such an exception to the rule. I know prior military people who work in retail. They haven't murdered any customers either. In fact, now that I reflect on it, I don't know any prior military people who had an innate urge to kill just because of the training they received in the military.

The police are not an occupying force. We come from the communities we serve. We have families that live in the communities we serve. We have children that go to the schools in the communities we serve. Most of us were born in this country and believe in what it stands for.

I do find it interesting that you keep comparing the US law enforcement to that of Germany and keep saying we are so violent and murderous. Do you not see the irony of comparing the United States to a government which is responsible for the cold blooded murder of over 11 million people?

That being said, I think I have had my fill of this conversation with you. Some people will argue until they are red in the face without ever actually doing objective research.

Blue Skies

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