CanuckInUSA 0 #76 January 8, 2015 Darius11I am betting the shooters are converts. This is the biggest croc of shit in this entire thread. Look at their names: Cherif Kouachi, Said Kouachi and Hamyd Mourad. You still stand by this utter nonsense that these men are converts? What a fucking joke. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #77 January 8, 2015 The person that took the cell phone video appears to have had the upper hand and had he had a weapon, I'd venture to say he could have changed their course to some degree. I know, no way Kennedy was killed by only one person. Wouldn't be possible would it? Maybe there were more willing passengers to storm the cabin anyway. Would you not have wanted to change that situation knowing what was already happening elsewhere? How long do we as a world tolerate this shit until we DO fight back and stop it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #78 January 8, 2015 CanuckInUSA ***I am betting the shooters are converts. This is the biggest croc of shit in this entire thread. Look at their names: Cherif Kouachi, Said Kouachi and Hamyd Mourad. You still stand by this utter nonsense that these men are converts? What a fucking joke. Converts commonly change their names. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #79 January 8, 2015 QuoteJust goes to show that Islam and Christianity cannot co-exist peacefully as long as there are extremism elements hell-bent on getting their way or die. To some extent. Right now Christianity is having a pretty hard time co-existing with Western Civilization. Islam is just one more on the list so to speak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #80 January 8, 2015 QuoteRight now I consider extremist Christians more of a threat to me and my family than extremist Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews or Rastafarians. Have you observed any armed Christians on your door step? Remember in your part of the world (in spite of recent SCOTUS decisions) Christians packing on your doorstep you should report immediately to your local LEO's!!!!!! Have any Christians on your doorstep thumped you upside the head with their Bibles? That of course would be assault and a creative prosecutor might be able to turn that one into an ADW case. If they're on your doorstep pestering you, then perhaps they are more of an irritation to you. They should leave. In all truth, I don't like Christians on my doorstep pestering me either...truly! But I think there is a difference between an irritant and a threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #81 January 8, 2015 QuoteConverts commonly change their names. Have you seen the pictures of these men? I have. If you have not seen them yet, I am sure soon enough you will see them and you will see that they are not converts. What a fucking joke to insinuate these men are converts. Cartoons are not real Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #82 January 8, 2015 Quade you seem to be of the mind set that in no way could someone w a gun made any difference. I support your right to not carry (if you don't) but if you were one of these 12 do you think you would WANT to have a weapon? I'd feel for the French people.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyBabeAU 3 #83 January 8, 2015 I was in Paris in 1997, a really beautiful city with warm, peace loving people, so I found it hard especially to learn what occurred there. I hope there will soon be many more like you refusing to cower in fear to militant extremists. I saw on Facebook a few weeks back a photo of some armed terrorists with text overlaid over the image saying something along the lines of "If you are prepared to kill for your religion, start with yourself." There's a thought… I think no matter what religion you consider, when people become fundamentalist extremists in their beliefs, they become dangerous, but when they are intolerant to those who think differently to their own agenda, and when most especially they use religion as a justification for unspeakable acts and start ingraining that into their culture across generations, its deeply disturbing. Peace to everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #84 January 8, 2015 mirage62Quade you seem to be of the mind set that in no way could someone w a gun made any difference. I support your right to not carry (if you don't) but if you were one of these 12 do you think you would WANT to have a weapon? I'd feel for the French people. Had I had a rifle and was there . . . I'd pretty much have made a difference. I may have been injured or killed in the process, but there would have been fewer deaths.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #85 January 8, 2015 normiss How long do we as a world tolerate this shit until we DO fight back and stop it? Last time I checked we had killed bin Laden, and were bombing ISIL and terrorist camps in the tribal areas and in Yemen. Of course, conservatives whined every time there was a Predator attack.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #86 January 8, 2015 BoomerdogQuoteRight now I consider extremist Christians more of a threat to me and my family than extremist Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews or Rastafarians. Have you observed any armed Christians on your door step? Remember in your part of the world (in spite of recent SCOTUS decisions) Christians packing on your doorstep you should report immediately to your local LEO's!!!!!! Nope. Nor armed Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or Jews.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #87 January 8, 2015 turtlespeed***Quade you seem to be of the mind set that in no way could someone w a gun made any difference. I support your right to not carry (if you don't) but if you were one of these 12 do you think you would WANT to have a weapon? I'd feel for the French people. Had I had a rifle and was there . . . I'd pretty much have made a difference. . I bet you could land a Velocity 84 when you had 100 jumps, too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #88 January 8, 2015 kallend******Quade you seem to be of the mind set that in no way could someone w a gun made any difference. I support your right to not carry (if you don't) but if you were one of these 12 do you think you would WANT to have a weapon? I'd feel for the French people. Had I had a rifle and was there . . . I'd pretty much have made a difference. . I bet you could land a Velocity 84 when you had 100 jumps, too. I have never jumped a Velo 84 . . . I have fired a rifle, and very VERY accurately.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #89 January 8, 2015 turtlespeed. I have fired a rifle, and very VERY accurately. So have I, but I'm not arrogant enough to believe I'd do the same when taken by surprise in a firefight.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #90 January 8, 2015 kallend***. I have fired a rifle, and very VERY accurately. So have I, but I'm not arrogant enough to believe I'd do the same when taken by surprise in a firefight. Sucks to be you. Cower, and hide.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #91 January 8, 2015 QuoteDo you think that surprise, opportunity, and luck only work for the terrorists? That's why I mentioned a person in a position to take one or more out could clearly lose their life, but it could slow things down or stop them. I would prefer that option over cowering and awaiting murder. All I'm saying is I want the option for MY life. That should be a right of every human on the planet. Self defense. Without it, we all lose IMO. Once all bad guys know we have no means of protection...shit gets real with a quickness. Boko Haram? Your assessment is 100% correct. The probability of living through such an engagement is low but the calculus of the battle will change by applying deadly counterforce. In essence, your approach confirms two theories of war. 1)From Sun-Tzu, fighting on "death ground;" a situation where you will die if you don't fight and you may die if you do but may also increase your chances of survival. 2) From Karl von Clausewitz, introducing both "fog and friction" to the enemy, altering their plan or as they say, no war plan survives first contact with the enemy. The tangos might not have planned to any counter surprise...they now have to adapt to a plan they did not consider in the first place. Or to put it simply, if you're gonna die anyway, might as well take some of the bastards with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #92 January 8, 2015 Yet again with the one sided surprise. It's always one way and dead end with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #93 January 8, 2015 CanuckInUSA***I am betting the shooters are converts. This is the biggest croc of shit in this entire thread. Look at their names: Cherif Kouachi, Said Kouachi and Hamyd Mourad. You still stand by this utter nonsense that these men are converts? What a fucking joke. I don't know anything about these guys, calm down. Thats why i said betting not know or fact, a guess. A lot of these aholes turn out to be converts. they see idealism and never see or lived the practical side of things.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #94 January 8, 2015 quade***There's even a memorial to them. A movie made about those passengers. "Let's roll." They fought back. They died. And they saved hundreds or perhaps thousands of lives. And it was in no way like this situation. Not in the least. While it is true there were courageous passengers who stood up to the terrorists and charged the cabin, the only thing the Flight 93 terrorists had going for them was passenger fear; not bullets. If the Flight 93 terrorists had automatic weaponry, they would not have been stopped by the passengers who decided to storm the cabin. If the flight 93 terrorists had automatic weaponry, then the terrorists would have probably taken themselves out and the passengers and the plane. Explosive DC is a pretty brutal thing. We're detecting a fatalistic sort of, "you're gonna die so don't try" sensibility from you. It's what we see in most mass murder circumstances. Everyone cowers and nobody attacks. For good reason. It's why the Army trains to react to ambush. What you do in an ambush if open fire immediately and charge toward to ambush. You'll probably die doing it. You will die if you don't. Sure, it takes training to be able to react to these situations. But training would make a person look paranoid. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #95 January 8, 2015 QuoteWe're detecting a fatalistic sort of, "you're gonna die so don't try" sensibility from you. It's what we see in most mass murder circumstances. Everyone cowers and nobody attacks. For good reason. 1. You're now speaking using the "royal we." How . . . silly. 2. Nonsense. There is nothing fatalistic in my message. It's not about cowering; it's about being realistic about how much a CCW would be able to actually do in a situation such as this. Again, the Secret-fucking-Service with all of their advanced training and weaponry were unable to stop John Hinkley Jr. I'm not saying you shouldn't have access to arms or carry or attempt to protect yourself, only that you need to be realistic when it comes to the chances of being able to actually change this type of situation. It's just not going to make any difference with this type of thing. None.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #96 January 8, 2015 quade"You" being used as an impersonal pronoun not indicating any particular individual. While there may be some highly trained ex special ops person reading this forum, the vast majority, even the highly trained gun enthusiasts are not capable of making any appreciable difference. To think they can is wildly Walter Mitty. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430201/British-hero-mall-massacre-Ex-Royal-Marine-handgun-saved-100-lives-terrorists-ran-amok.htmlIf some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #97 January 8, 2015 Wow. Anyone thinking this would be less likely to happen in the US due to all the people carrying guns clearly has a major issue with reality. "If I was there with a rifle". WTF?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,405 #98 January 8, 2015 >If the flight 93 terrorists had automatic weaponry, then the terrorists would have >probably taken themselves out and the passengers and the plane. That's a myth; that would have just made holes in the side of the airplane (if that.) Mythbusters did a pretty good episode on it a while back. To get actual explosive decompression, they had to use explosives. >It's why the Army trains to react to ambush. What you do in an ambush if open fire >immediately and charge toward to ambush. You'll probably die doing it. If they have boxcutters? You'll probably avoid death - with or without the rifle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #99 January 8, 2015 StumpyWow. Anyone thinking this would be less likely to happen in the US due to all the people carrying guns clearly has a major issue with reality. "If I was there with a rifle". WTF? Prevent all the deaths? Not likely. The attack would have still commenced. The first people killed, the janitor and the journalists likely would have still fallen. But the outcome could have been different and preventing some of the deaths or at least stop the killers before they got away? Why not? Have you not seen the cell phone video from the 2nd floor when the terrorists assassinated the police officer on the street? If that person with the video camera had been packing, they could have taken down one if not both killers. Of course by shooting a firearm instead of a camera, they too could have drawn attention to themselves and also been shot. But I would rather die standing up than live kneeling and submitting to Sharia Law. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #100 January 8, 2015 QuoteAgain, the Secret-fucking-Service with all of their advanced training and weaponry were unable to stop John Hinkley Jr. None. They most certainly did stop him. Hinckley was one man with a handgun. He had to get close enough to do some damage. Not sure what video you are looking at but in mine the LEO's all reacted and jumped on him. If they hadn't, and he had more rounds he would have casually continued to fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoZeZprXnDg Now look at the video of people looking out a second floor window at crazy fucks screaming for their god and tell me if you'd have had a gun you wouldn't have made their day a bit more exciting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnGlX_0fIZ8 Bad comparison assassination attempt v. terror attack.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
