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kallend

Another scumbag politician.

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1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

And, what happened to him right after that.

I'm not so naive to think that it didn't turn into a political football. But, the original request was to answer the questions drawn up by the signatories to create a House Select Committee on the Terrorist Attack in Benghazi.  That was it and that was my only point.  

Then that point does not actually counter the post you were replying to. The committees and investigations after that were primarily soapboxes for prominent republicans to spread lies and misinformation about Clinton and Benghazi in the run-up to the election. Joe's statement does make sense.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

And, what happened to him right after that.

I'm not so naive to think that it didn't turn into a political football. But, the original request was to answer the questions drawn up by the signatories to create a House Select Committee on the Terrorist Attack in Benghazi.  That was it and that was my only point.  

Step back and away from all of that for just a minute and consider the play. The truth is, the Republicans in Congress had an interest and that interest wasn't truth. Truly, I don't think the most of them, or the overwhelming majority of the Republican base, have a clue as to what they are fighting for. I've pointed it out many times on these pages that autocracy is on the rise world wide and we ignore that fact at our peril. It happened in India, the worlds former largest democracy, and it can happen here. The 2nd Amendment, the end of abortion, Jesus in school again, white supremacy, and on and on and on. Are any of those things worth the creation of a functional electoral autocracy in America?

 

DR 2021.pdf

Edited by JoeWeber

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12 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Step back and away from all of that for just a minute and consider the play. The truth is, the Republicans in Congress had an interest and that interest wasn't truth. Truly, I don't think the most of them, or the overwhelming majority of the Republican base, have a clue as to what they are fighting for.

Morning, Joe.

I agree with you on this point - but, I also think it true of both sides. I was interested in the truth on Benghazi, but the goal posts moved. 

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I've pointed it out many times on these pages that autocracy is on the rise world wide and we ignore that fact at our peril.

You have. 

 

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

It happened in India, the worlds former largest democracy, and it can happen here.

I read the attached paper you provided by V-Dem and a couple of things that jumped out at me was, 1) the appearance of a Simpson's paradox ( although, I haven't dissected it yet) , and 2) India - is on the verge, or actually the beginning stages of "Economic Nationalism." I "think" the same is true when I look at all the countries listed in Figure 9. Thoughts?

 

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

The 2nd Amendment, the end of abortion, Jesus in school again, white supremacy, and on and on and on. Are any of those things worth the creation of a functional electoral autocracy in America?

Damn good question. I don't think so - and this question gets to the heart of where do we as a society wish to go and what are we able to "come to center" on.  

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2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Morning, Joe.

I agree with you on this point - but, I also think it true of both sides. I was interested in the truth on Benghazi, but the goal posts moved. 

You have. 

 

I read the attached paper you provided by V-Dem and a couple of things that jumped out at me was, 1) the appearance of a Simpson's paradox ( although, I haven't dissected it yet) , and 2) India - is on the verge, or actually the beginning stages of "Economic Nationalism." I "think" the same is true when I look at all the countries listed in Figure 9. Thoughts?

 

Damn good question. I don't think so - and this question gets to the heart of where do we as a society wish to go and what are we able to "come to center" on.  

The V-Dem report is a readable aggregation of viewpoints. I wouldn't carry it to the cross but I do think it is useful and generally accurate. Given that Democracy isn't an economic system I'm happy to look at the rise of autocracy worldwide on a numbers of people equation without economic issues. In that sense alone I'm not sure I see a paradox. 

But your main point is the big, giant point that to my way of thinking is the only important point: what are each of us willing to give on in the face of such a risk? I simply don't see Trumpism as a one off, a passed thing or an aberration. I see it as part of a worldwide trend towards electoral autocracies. It isn't even certain that, given the current conditions in America, it is possible to reverse the trend even locally. Believing that we are out of margin makes me willing to toss a few additional closely held views into the pot just to get the deal done. Right here, right now, what we all need to do is stop tearing down, and nit-picking at, what has become a very fragile democracy in this country and work to strengthen it whether we are getting what we most want or not. 

Edited by JoeWeber
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2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I simply don't see Trumpism as a one off, a passed thing or an aberration.

I get down on my knees and pray you're wrong.

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Right here, right now, what we all need to do is stop tearing down, and nit-picking at, what has become a very fragile democracy in this country and work to strengthen it whether we are getting what we most want or not. 

No better words spoken.

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2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Given that Democracy isn't an economic system

Wanted to separate this out - you are correct. But, the type of economic system often derives the policy changes (fiscal policy/monetary policy) that differing forms of governments enact. 

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US House candidate Bouchard says he impregnated 14-year-old when he was 18

U.S. House candidate Anthony Bouchard had a relationship with and impregnated a 14-year-old girl when he was 18, he told the Star-Tribune late Thursday, hours after he disclosed the relationship in a Facebook Live video to his supporters.

Bouchard, who did not specify the girl's age in the video, said he went public with the information to get ahead of the story after learning that people were investigating it in opposition to his candidacy. A Wyoming state senator since 2017, Bouchard has risen in prominence since announcing he would challenge Rep. Liz Cheney following her vote to impeach then-President Donald Trump.

 

Sounds like a shoo-in candidate for the "Family Values" party.

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Hi folks,

I guess this one belongs here:  Republican Rep. Jim Jordan excoriated a top Justice Department official on Tuesday for spurning attempts by then-President Donald Trump’s chief of staff to get officials to investigate several election fraud claims

Jordan tears into DOJ officials for hostility to Meadows' election fraud inquiries - POLITICO

Typical GOP response:  'Hey, look over here.'

The part that I like best:  Included in the records are emails showing Meadows urging investigators to look at a YouTube video of a former intelligence officer who alleged that people in Italy were surreptitiously altering votes in United States elections via satellites.

'Pure insanity' is right.  Right up there with, 'But, her emails.'

Horsepucky at it's finest.

Jerry Baumchen

 

 

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On 5/21/2021 at 7:35 AM, JoeWeber said:

... Given that Democracy isn't an economic system...

 

On 5/21/2021 at 9:53 AM, BIGUN said:

Wanted to separate this out - you are correct. But, the type of economic system often derives the policy changes (fiscal policy/monetary policy) that differing forms of governments enact. 

Democracy is an economic system. Free elections and a free media keep controls on the excess and corruption of governments. IMO any government needs a strong opposition otherwise corruption, cronyism,etc.is the natural result. i.e. All power corrupts, absolute.... we all know the rest. Democracy adjusts stimulus, taxes, etc. as the voters demand. Not immediately but the pendulum does swing.

Democracy will always win in the end because autocracies always end up looking after themselves. Singapore the likely sole exception. Looking in the rear view mirror is trumpism. No populism isn't dead. Poland, and some other countries are still dealing with populism. America is moving ahead taking stock of the lessons learned more or less.

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1 hour ago, lippy said:

I take it you haven't been here recently...a significant part of the population has learned nothing 

                                                      learning

The beating will continue until morale^ improves.

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3 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Democracy is an economic system. Free elections and a free media keep controls on the excess and corruption of governments.

Nope.  You can have a democracy and communism; you can have anarchy and capitalism.  They go together (for you) because it's what you are used to.

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Free elections and a free media keep controls on the excess and corruption of governments.

Free elections are a characteristic of democracy.  They can be used to curb government excesses, or they can be used to grant government totalitarian power.  This can (and has) happened.

Quote

Democracy adjusts stimulus, taxes, etc. as the voters demand. 

Exactly!  And they can demand capitalism or communism (or any of a dozen other economic systems.)  Keep in mind that America, the Great Experiment in democracy, both supported and enforced slavery for over 100 years.

Quote

America is moving ahead taking stock of the lessons learned more or less.

"Fuck them" isn't much of a lesson learned.

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9 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Jordan tears into DOJ officials for hostility to Meadows' election fraud inquiries - POLITICO

Typical GOP response:  'Hey, look over here.'

The part that I like best:  Included in the records are emails showing Meadows urging investigators to look at a YouTube video of a former intelligence officer who alleged that people in Italy were surreptitiously altering votes in United States elections via satellites.

'Pure insanity' is right.  Right up there with, 'But, her emails.'

Horsepucky at it's finest.

No kidding. And this is where reporting matters. I mean, is that headline really representative? I'd have thought that "Jordan bullies DOJ employees over refusal to investigate Youtube conspiracy theories" would give a better snapshot of the story.

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7 hours ago, billvon said:

Nope.  You can have a democracy and communism; you can have anarchy and capitalism.  They go together (for you) because it's what you are used to.

I've never lived under communism and the purest forms lasted for only a decade if that. Before corruption of the leadership and those who were insiders took over. Same for pure capitalism. Democracy introduces caps on the laissez faire of capitalism. It allows subsidies for sports including professional sports.

7 hours ago, billvon said:

Free elections are a characteristic of democracy.  They can be used to curb government excesses, or they can be used to grant government totalitarian power.  This can (and has) happened.

They would not typically be called free if they are corrupted by any party to the election.

 

7 hours ago, billvon said:

 Keep in mind that America, the Great Experiment in democracy, both supported and enforced slavery for over 100 years.

Not when Black residents in America had the full rights of citizenship and the votes that came with that. More commonly known as democracy and free elections.Don't forget other young democracies at the same time as US slavery. Recognized that slavery was inconsistent with all men being equal(women too). With the associated equal right to vote on the direction of the state.

I'd suggest how democracy and the vote has molded the Nordic countries. Far from pure capitalism yet more egalitarian than "communist' Cuba or even the purest forms of communism. Their GINI coefficients and rankings illustrate this.

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12 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

You need to find better sources of information.

From yesterday Politico: "The allegations against Gaetz were spread by Joel Greenberg, the congressman’s onetime friend and a former Seminole County tax collector, who pleaded guilty for sex trafficking the minor, for falsely smearing a political foe as a pedophile and for a host of other crimes. To get a lighter sentence, Greenberg is cooperating with federal authorities in their investigation of Gaetz. He is awaiting sentencing.

No charges against Gaetz have been filed, although investigators have interviewed many of his associates, including past girlfriends. The investigation appears to have slowed down as federal prosecutors negotiate with a former girlfriend of Gaetz‘s who wants an immunity deal in return for whatever testimony she might give."

Stephen Alford the person cited in your story tried to run a scam on Gaetz promising a trump pardon. To which he had no real prospect of getting. The sex trafficking of children by Gaetz is a separate matter and continuing. I'd guess ryoder cited a correct story of Stephen Alford's scam here already.

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14 hours ago, kallend said:

You have an unorthodox definition on "exonerated".

(OANN xD)

Yeah. The funny part about extortion.

It tends to work better when the accusations are true.

According to the story, Gaetz says all the accusations are lies.
So he's exonerated.

By that definition, Bill Clinton 'did not have sex with that woman', right?

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46 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Lauren Boebert paid rent and utilities with campaign funds, FEC filings show

I'm shocked, shocked, to find that corruption is going on here!

She also asked for $22,000 in personal mileage reimbursements.  That's 38,712 miles driven in 2020 during the pandemic - like driving from NY to LA 14 times.  And if she drove, say, the same amount of time that a truck driver drives in a day, that's 55 days (almost two months) of doing nothing but driving.

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14 hours ago, kallend said:

Nebraska GOP Rep. Jeff Fortenberry charged with lying to feds hours after he denied crime in YouTube video.

Quote

Fortenberry goes on to say that about two-and-a-half years ago, some FBI agents “from California” knocked on the door of his house, he let them in, and “I answered their questions.”

Mistake number 1

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“Later, we went back and answered further questions, I told them what I knew and what I understood,” he said.

Mistake number 2

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You’ve known me for many, many years. I try to give you honest, clear answers and do my duty as a representative for our great state and for America,” he says.

Shit. You just can't help yourself, can you?

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