Who needs an AR-15???

[Stumpy 256]

normiss

I would prefer to have every tool available to me to keep myself, my family, my friends, neighbors, and countrymen alive.

I doubt that. Do you wear a crash helmet in your car? That stands a much better chance of saving your life than any kind of gun does.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Bignugget 0]

dmcoco84

You've been speaking about the quantity of firearms in the USA... not the entire world; I can quote you if you like. If you are going to backtrack on that, there are far more than 300 million in the entire world.

Where I'm also curious how you will be able to collectively suck the knowledge of how to make (not only AR, AK rifles, but any version of a firearm/rifle) them, out of the collective minds of those on the planet... and prevent new one from being made.

Or maybe its simple, we should send all the firearm makers/designers and anyone who has knowledge about making firearms, to concentration camps.

But of course the panel of experts that are assigned to determine if you have that knowledge, will then also have to be sent to the concentration camps.

And of course, we should send all the Jews too!

Jews... its always their fault.



You are not an idealist. You are bored, and pathetic.

I will ignore the crazy bigoted tirade you went on....

I stand by my statement that 280 million fewer ways to kill each other is a good thing.

I am not sure what you are trying to say regarding sucking knowledge from people.

[Kennedy 0]

So basically you don't believe in freedom or choice, want to force people to think like you do, and aren't against having a dictator control everything, as long as he agrees with you.

That's nice, you're not an idealist, you want to force your version of a Utopian ideal on everyone. I've got news for you, utopia is not possible, and your attempts to create it would force a dystopian future.

Also, I doubt you believe your own BS. If you were forced to face a big nasty threat, I imagine you'd want "a tool designed only for killing" in your hand, rather than "seeing what Darwin would say."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[oldwomanc6 38]

Bignugget

***You've been speaking about the quantity of firearms in the USA... not the entire world; I can quote you if you like. If you are going to backtrack on that, there are far more than 300 million in the entire world.

Where I'm also curious how you will be able to collectively suck the knowledge of how to make (not only AR, AK rifles, but any version of a firearm/rifle) them, out of the collective minds of those on the planet... and prevent new one from being made.

Or maybe its simple, we should send all the firearm makers/designers and anyone who has knowledge about making firearms, to concentration camps.

But of course the panel of experts that are assigned to determine if you have that knowledge, will then also have to be sent to the concentration camps.

And of course, we should send all the Jews too!

Jews... its always their fault.



You are not an idealist. You are bored, and pathetic.

I will ignore the crazy bigoted tirade you went on....

I stand by my statement that 280 million fewer ways to kill each other is a good thing.

I am not sure what you are trying to say regarding sucking knowledge from people.

Ways and means are two separate things.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[normiss 622]

Nor can you escape the fact that there are a few million folks with machining equipment at home now.
After your magic *poof* when the bad weapons disappear, we simply start over. Impressive skill actually.

Illegal you say?
Once the government makes criminals of us all, does that really matter?

Of course all this is just silly rainbow and butterflies talk anyway.
Good luck scraping that pesty old constitution.
Really sucks when that damn thing gets in the way of your ideals.

[Bignugget 0]

Damn,

You got me on the ways/means thing.

I have revised my position and now feel more guns is the answer.

[propblast 0]

oldwomanc6

******You've been speaking about the quantity of firearms in the USA... not the entire world; I can quote you if you like. If you are going to backtrack on that, there are far more than 300 million in the entire world.

Where I'm also curious how you will be able to collectively suck the knowledge of how to make (not only AR, AK rifles, but any version of a firearm/rifle) them, out of the collective minds of those on the planet... and prevent new one from being made.

Or maybe its simple, we should send all the firearm makers/designers and anyone who has knowledge about making firearms, to concentration camps.

But of course the panel of experts that are assigned to determine if you have that knowledge, will then also have to be sent to the concentration camps.

And of course, we should send all the Jews too!

Jews... its always their fault.



You are not an idealist. You are bored, and pathetic.

I will ignore the crazy bigoted tirade you went on....

I stand by my statement that 280 million fewer ways to kill each other is a good thing.

I am not sure what you are trying to say regarding sucking knowledge from people.

Ways and means are two separate things.

Yes they are.

Propblast

[oldwomanc6 38]

Bignugget

Damn,

You got me on the ways/means thing.

I have revised my position and now feel more guns is the answer.

My job is done!

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

I will ignore the crazy bigoted tirade you went on....

You're special.

I'm Mocking Ya, Buddy.

Just like me telling a Canadian, Mind Your Business, and he called me a xenophobe.

Quote

I am not sure what you are trying to say regarding sucking knowledge from people.

If you take away my firearms, but I have the knowledge to make my own from scratch, your utopia soon after confiscation, will be moving back towards 279 Million firearms, quickly.

Here's YOUR Idealism

[Nataly 38]

diablopilot

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[dmcoco84 4]

Nataly

***

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

Well, you think wrong.

Sheriff Debunks Gun Magazine ‘Fallacies’
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/01/sheriff-debunks-fallacies-surrounding-gun-magazines-in-this-viral-vid-plus-his-response-to-bidens-shotgun-advice/

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

We give up A LOT of personal freedoms in the name of safety... A simple every-day example: you can't drive a car at whatever speed you like... As a society, we have decided that beyond a certain speed is just too dangerous.

You clearly do not understand Limited Government and Federalism.

Speed limits, are a State right... illegal Federally.

However, when the Federal government did illegally established national speed limits, it was because of "shortages", not safety or speed dangers.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

- As for the argument that "needs" have nothing to do with it... I must disagree... Some things are NECESSARY evils.

NECESSARY ... EVIL

Yeah...................... government

With the one we have, under the Constitution, is like no other.

[devildog 0]

Nataly

***

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

In close quarters? Absolutely.

Even without guns, you could fashion a few pipe bombs out of all sorts of things and kill more than 12 people if you spent 5 mins planning it.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[Boomerdog 0]

"Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?
Don't think so."
I don't think so either but I don't know if that is either the point or the answer you're looking for.

The shooter in Colorado was armed to the teeth with the arms and bullet carrying capacity to as we say "put a lot of rounds downrange." And put a lot of rounds downrange was exactly what he did in a very evil act. His trial is forthcoming and the facts will be put forth in the trial. A jury will listen and render a verdict.

I want to preface my remarks with some numbers. In the United States, there are approximately 250 - 300 million firearms in the private possession of about 80 million people. This computes to each individual owning on average 3 - 3.5 firearms per person. Given these numbers, it would seem that probability would favor people settling their problems with guns and most of the cities, towns, villages, rural areas in the US would be "free fire zones" with bullets flying in the air every which way. But that's not happening. We humans were endowed with the free will and ability to choose between love and hate, good and evil. Fortunately, most of us choose love and good over hate and evil. Unfortunately, there are some who choose the hate and evil path and some choose to act out such behavior in very deadly and destructive ways. Further, the movie theatre loves customers but forbade customers with concealed carry permits to legally "pack heat" in the theatre. The perp might have gotten some shots off but I'd place a sizable bet those packing heat would have taken him out in as little time as possible. Now comes the whining replies of, "but what about stray bullets etc etc etc?" It's already an uncontrolled free fire zone and if the police were there firing their weapons, stray bullets would still be flying all over the place. "but the police are trained?" Yup and so are holders of concealed carry permits. i know, I have a permit and I train at the range two to three times a month and shoot about 100 - 150 rounds...at paper targets of course.

The cops can't help you NOR is law enforcement under any legal obligation to protect each of us. Their job is to enforce the law which means they arrive AFTER the crime has been committed i.e, as the body's are already on the ground. We have a saying, "When seconds count, the cops are minutes away."

So why do I (with occasional frequency) carry a gun? BECAUSE A COP IS TOO DAMN HEAVY!

Self defense is and always will be...THE FIRST HUMAN RIGHT!

[wayneflorida 0]

If the government can have armed drones, the people can at least have an AR-15.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

- Finally: rights... These are not rights. They are laws/privileges. And they can be taken away. Nobody can take away a right. Please don't bring up semantics... The fact is that your laws currently prohibit things that used to be rights - like owning a slave... And thank goodness this is no longer the case. Your "right" to bare arms can also be taken away if too many people abuse it.

Nataly...

The reason you see this issue as you do, is because of your complete absence of the necessary foundation; the knowledge regarding American Foundational principles, and the principles of liberty.

I'm not criticizing you... 6ish years ago, I was in the same sinking boat. It's ok... you, myself, nor anyone else is stupid for it, where in many cases, not learning that information was intentional by those controlling your/my education; like some of the massive lies I learned at Kempsville High School, which angers me greatly.

You just need to be willing to learn... and use critical thinking.

And I love the fact that you live in France now.


If you have that desire, you need to read:

As stated on this board before, "On Killing and On Combat" by Dave Grossman.

- On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

- On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace

After you read these, there is a third book, that covers every issue regarding firearms that has been posted on this board... it too is written by Dave Grossman, but his name is not on the cover; so though he wrote about 98% of it, you won't find it by an amazon/google search.


In addition, I stated that you clearly do not understand Limited Government and Federalism.

You are not only wrong about the differentiation between a right, law, and privilege... but also, that bearing arms, is not a right.

Self Defense, is a Natural Right... it is a self evidence truth, where the men of the convention later passed an amendment to ensure that bearing arms to protect against tyranny (AND ALL THE OTHER NEEDS satisfied with them), was never to be infringed upon.

But like with my thread, "It is Time to Repeal the First Amendment", just like with the Second Amendment, the First is not necessary... the first amendment could be repealed with every single person in the USA agreeing, and freedom of speech would still be secure under the Constitution.

Freedom of Speech... is a Natural Right.

To understand this, you first need to read:

- Two Treatises of Government

Natural Rights are self evident truths under the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God.

Without understanding these IDEAS, one can not understand the American system of government. Period.

Even if you are an atheist, Natural Rights still exist... rights that come from our humanity... however Benjamin Franklin and George Washington 100% believed in God and that our rights come directly from God, where we then lend them to government to protect.

The purpose of government is to protect those rights:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"

And if you haven't read it in my other posts... the Pursuit of Happiness, was changed from Property. Benjamin Franklin, a staunch Abolitionist, had Jefferson change it to prevent the south from claiming that their slaves were their "property." Slavery was NEVER a right, and Frederick Douglass, after he ACTUALLY read the Constitution, called it a Glorious Liberty document.

Additionally... happiness, does not mean joy.

I would also recommend reading the American Classic Series:

- The Real Benjamin Franklin

- The Real George Washington

- The Real Thomas Jefferson

When you are done... both by R.J. Pestritto:

- American Progressivism: A Reader

- Woodrow Wilson and the Roots of Modern Liberalism

The USA began to become the "World's Policeman", under Teddy Roosevelt... the man who started the Progressive party and was the first Progressive President; a Republican.

While FDR and Wilson, were in the other party... for, Progressivism is a cancer that has infected both parties... an ideology that is the absolute antithesis of Limited Government, based on Natural Law.




Or, you can do like most others on this board: continue the D vs R game (even though Washington sternly warned us about parties, before those two even existed), only read things/books you already agree with, instead of reading everything you can find... make threads like this one, and continue to stand on the sinking boat.

Yes... I need my AR-15.

"You" have no right to take it from me.

And hopefully sooner than later, we can dial back all the other Federal overreaches.

[regulator 0]

Nataly

***

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

----------------------------------------------------
Kind of ironic that the judge presiding over the case still hasn't revealed what weapons killed what people. Some media has reported the AR was in the trunk of his car. So you were there? How did you not get shot with all your detailed knowledge of the incident?

[normiss 622]

Incidentally, Hasan did rack up some amazing numbers with handguns only. In a well lit room, confined area, with all of his victims US Army. Wonder how he would have fared with civilians watching a movie.

[diablopilot 2]

Nataly

***

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

Yes I do. And since you don't appear to know what the fuck you're talking about that suggests you've started this "discussion" simply to be argumentative.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[turtlespeed 212]

diablopilot

that suggests you've started this "discussion" simply to be argumentative.

She did, and she stated as much.

Try not to be so angry about people looking for explanations.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Skyrad 0]

dmcoco84

You've been speaking about the quantity of firearms in the USA... not the entire world; I can quote you if you like. If you are going to backtrack on that, there are far more than 300 million in the entire world.

Where I'm also curious how you will be able to collectively suck the knowledge of how to make (not only AR, AK rifles, but any version of a firearm/rifle) them, out of the collective minds of those on the planet... and prevent new one from being made.

Or maybe its simple, we should send all the firearm makers/designers and anyone who has knowledge about making firearms, to concentration camps.

But of course the panel of experts that are assigned to determine if you have that knowledge, will then also have to be sent to the concentration camps.

And of course, we should send all the Jews too!

Jews... its always their fault.



You are not an idealist. You are bored, and pathetic.

I blame the Romans.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[livendive 8]

I have an AR. I don't need it. I haven't shot it in a year. If I were the sort of person who had an interest in killing a lot of people (I'm not), I can think of a lot more efficient ways than simply shooting them one by one. If I were reduced to that option, the difference between handguns and a rifle would be pretty small.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Skyrad 0]

Nataly

***

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

Actually it wouldn't be to difficult at close range and enough loaded magazines for anyone with some training and experience (Military training or otherwise) in a crowded theatre.
But thats not what you said, you compared the amount of damage that a handgun can to with that which a AR15 can do, not the amount of casualties that can be inflicted.

Its all about shot placement.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[propblast 0]

Nataly

***

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

You just make that up? You have any ballistics data to back that up? Any statistical analysis of fatalities due to firearm or caliber types?

Didn't think so.

Why do you not think so. They use the same firing mechanism. They are both semi autos. Could you explain you reasoning?

Oh come on, seriously? Do you think that guy who shot people in a cinema would have hit 71 people and killed 12 had he been armed with a glock instead of an AR-15? Really?

Don't think so.

Propblast