kallend 1,623 #26 January 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteHe just pointed out by definition people become criminals and their guns turn from legal to illegal if they refuse to comply with a ban, which COULD lead to more "illegal" guns than you had before. I'm of the mind that COULD is really WILL. The crooks are gonna keep theirs now you add in the defenders of the 2nd and you have more illegal weapons...simply because you passed a "law". So how come the inverse is not also true? Legalize all guns and you'll have fewer illegal ones. Eliminate speed limits and you'll have fewer speeders. Legalize drunk driving and you'll have fewer DUIs. Same logic.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #27 January 27, 2013 Quote So how come the inverse is not also true? Legalize all guns and you'll have fewer illegal ones. Eliminate speed limits and you'll have fewer speeders. Legalize drunk driving and you'll have fewer DUIs. Same logic. I actually agree with getting rid of speed limits, but that's a whole 'nother thread.... As far as DUI's and guns, that's apples and oranges. A gun, just like a car is a tool. Then you throw alcohol or drugs into the mix and your impairing judgment. To separate things... Now pass me a beer and my .45 and watch this shit....."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #28 January 27, 2013 logic...funny. i've seen none whatsoever from (i think) any of your posts yet. as was stated before, if you have any REAL suggestions that would (possibly) help the situation, i'd like to hear them as well. with a 10 round mag instead of a 17, and a pistol, i'd say that it would take me the same exact time to put 20 rounds anywhere. 10 + 10 = 20, 2 sec for a mag change. 17 + 3 = 20, same 2 sec for the mag change. and banning assault weapons? if i chose to go on a rampage on anyone, i'd take my 2 mosins, 5 rounds at a time, bolt action, and i could split hairs at around 150 yards. accurate up to about 500 or so. and i can still get 3 rounds on paper at 200 yards in 10 sec. and to this day, the best sniper in the world used this rifle to kill over 500 soldiers in 20 days, without a scope. so, rethink your ideas on what should be done, come up with a reasonable alternative to simply banning all guns, and try to bring some actual useful input to the discussions. oh, wait, i forgot. they say you're a professor. nevermind, ignore all i've said, you're excused, my bad, i apologize. i've heard a friend in the education system say that it's like a disability. and having recently been a part of the education system myself, i'd have to agree. we have to overlook things posted by people who can't help themselves. i have actually been known by most of my friends to take up any position that is opposite of what i may truly believe just to elicit actual thought. perhaps that is what you are doing, and if so, good job.http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #29 January 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe just pointed out by definition people become criminals and their guns turn from legal to illegal if they refuse to comply with a ban, which COULD lead to more "illegal" guns than you had before. I'm of the mind that COULD is really WILL. The crooks are gonna keep theirs now you add in the defenders of the 2nd and you have more illegal weapons...simply because you passed a "law". So how come the inverse is not also true? Legalize all guns and you'll have fewer illegal ones. Eliminate speed limits and you'll have fewer speeders. Legalize drunk driving and you'll have fewer DUIs. Same logic. Well just as literally, it IS true. Legalize all guns, and by definition, there are NO illegal guns. THAT is his whole point. Just think about it. If it is impossible to own a gun illegally, how can there be illegal guns? Conversely If it is impossible to own a gun legally, how can there be legal guns? ETA: I didn't bother addressing the other examples since this is a gun related thread, but the same logic applies. If drunk driving is legal, you will have 0 DUI's. And with no speed limits, you can't have speeders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #30 January 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteHe just pointed out by definition people become criminals and their guns turn from legal to illegal if they refuse to comply with a ban, which COULD lead to more "illegal" guns than you had before. I'm of the mind that COULD is really WILL. The crooks are gonna keep theirs now you add in the defenders of the 2nd and you have more illegal weapons...simply because you passed a "law". I agree the odds of more guns being turned in than kept will turn it into a WILL instead of a COULD. But its a catch 22. I thought this report was pretty well written it helped to show how complex trying to preserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness really is, especially true in 2013 when we are more dense, and more callous as a society than ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #31 January 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe just pointed out by definition people become criminals and their guns turn from legal to illegal if they refuse to comply with a ban, which COULD lead to more "illegal" guns than you had before. I'm of the mind that COULD is really WILL. The crooks are gonna keep theirs now you add in the defenders of the 2nd and you have more illegal weapons...simply because you passed a "law". So how come the inverse is not also true? Legalize all guns and you'll have fewer illegal ones. Eliminate speed limits and you'll have fewer speeders. Legalize drunk driving and you'll have fewer DUIs. Same logic. Still can't come up with anything intelligent to say?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #32 January 28, 2013 >Legalize all guns, and by definition, there are NO illegal guns. Agreed. Gun deaths would go up, gun arrests would go down. >If drunk driving is legal, you will have 0 DUI's. Also agreed. And as history shows, once again DUI deaths would go up and DUI arrests would go down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #33 January 28, 2013 QuoteAgreed. Gun deaths would go up, gun arrests would go down. I don't think that is likely to be true. We have seen more guns not necessarily translate to more deaths here in the US. In the States that have enacted shall issue CHL the crime has gone down. When citizens are able to arm themselves it makes crime more dangerous for the criminals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #34 January 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteAgreed. Gun deaths would go up, gun arrests would go down. I don't think that is likely to be true. We have seen more guns not necessarily translate to more deaths here in the US. In the States that have enacted shall issue CHL the crime has gone down. When citizens are able to arm themselves it makes crime more dangerous for the criminals. I agree. We already have the most guns in the world but it is not enough. We still have firearm homicide rates in line with Yemen. We need more people carrying more guns, that will drive the rate down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #35 January 28, 2013 Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #36 January 28, 2013 It has been driving the rate down. Gun ownership has increased and according to the FBI violent crime has been decreasing. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #37 January 28, 2013 QuoteIt has been driving the rate down. Gun ownership has increased and according to the FBI violent crime has been decreasing. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime We need more, we are in agreement. Make a graph and figure out how many we are gonna need total. Then lets get to work arming everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #38 January 28, 2013 QuoteGun ownership has increased decreased and according to the FBI violent crime has been decreasing. US Gun Ownership US Murder & Robbery rates I can't speak about causation, but the correlation appears to be there.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #39 January 28, 2013 I wouldn't advocate arming everyone. I don't think we shouldn't have gun control at all. But I do think it's effectiveness is very limited. If someone wants a gun they will be able to buy one regardless of the laws. Even if Feinstein was able to get everything she wanted it wouldn't reduce the number of guns in the US by much and also wouldn't eliminate the availability of any of the banned guns. It also wouldn't reduce crime at all. It would probably increase crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #40 January 28, 2013 yeah, Gallup, I don't buy that. I don't consider that to be worth anything at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #41 January 28, 2013 Quoteyeah, Gallup, I don't buy that. I don't consider that to be worth anything at all. That's okay. Lots of people reject data as soon as they realize they don't support their own preconceived beliefs. You did notice that Gallup was not the only source, right?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #42 January 28, 2013 I wouldn't consider a survey to be very accurate either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #43 January 28, 2013 Gun sales would be a better number to look at. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/08/23/what-the-left-wont-tell-you-about-the-boom-in-u-s-gun-sales/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #44 January 28, 2013 QuoteGun sales would be a better number to look at. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/08/23/what-the-left-wont-tell-you-about-the-boom-in-u-s-gun-sales/ Incorrect. Gun sales can increase while gun ownership decreases.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #45 January 28, 2013 QuoteI wouldn't consider a survey to be very accurate either. Much like Romney's campaign staff? They sure showed Nate Silver!Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #46 January 28, 2013 Right, but I suspect that many gun owners would not participate in any poll or survey asking about gun ownership. I wouldn't. Gun sales unambiguously means more guns in civilian hands. Does that translate directly to more gun owners? There isn't any way to know that answer. We aren't given that information by the FBI. I suspect that it would show an increase in gun owners. There have been recent news stories of more women buying guns. That is a sign of increased gun ownership. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/seen-at-11-new-research-shows-gun-purchases-by-women-on-the-rise/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #47 January 28, 2013 QuoteThere isn't any way to know that answer. Well, not if you're going to ignore the fact that we already have the answer.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #48 January 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteI wouldn't consider a survey to be very accurate either. Much like Romney's campaign staff? They sure showed Nate Silver! No idea what you are talking about here. I don't like Mitt Romney and didn't vote for him. Didn't keep up with his campaign at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #49 January 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteThere isn't any way to know that answer. Well, not if you're going to ignore the fact that we already have the answer. You haven't shown that to be true. Survey's and polls are not reliable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #50 January 28, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteThere isn't any way to know that answer. Well, not if you're going to ignore the fact that we already have the answer. You have shown that to be true. Survey's and polls are not reliable. Yes, and I did so by highlighting the inaccuracies of your posts. Thank you for making it easy.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
