Florida Teen Shot

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

No, I don't agree with TM since I have no idea what TM thought. All we have been told is that GZ thought he was threatened. And, the medical report just released indicates that he was threatened.

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that at all. All it means is that the DAY AFTER the killing, GZ had a bunch of injuries that his physician has described.

Fortson is correct, there is not much that we KNOW and a whole lot that various people are assuming.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 58]

Quote

Quote

No, I don't agree with TM since I have no idea what TM thought. All we have been told is that GZ thought he was threatened. And, the medical report just released indicates that he was threatened.

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that at all. All it means is that the DAY AFTER the killing, GZ had a bunch of injuries that his physician has described.

Fortson is correct, there is not much that we KNOW and a whole lot that various people are assuming.

No argument there.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

nor did TM know he had a gun (until he got shot).

We really don't know if he knew GM had a gun or not. Unfortunately he is not here to give us his side of the story.

I tend not to make things up to support a conclusion. So it would seem to me the best thing to assume would be that TM did not know GZ had a gun until shown otherwise.

I tend not to make things up to support a conclusion. I have no idea if TM knew that GZ had a gun or not.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

>At what point when your head is being repeatedly slammed into concrete
>by someone who is on top of you and has you pinned, do you get to
>decide you're going to die or suffer serious injury?

And the other question - at what point when you are being stalked by a guy with a gun and a violent criminal record do you get to decide that you might suffer serious injury?

...the point of first realization...then you run like hell. Why do you ask?


edited to add the smilies:

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Define evil - and I mean YOUR interpretation of evil. Not some dictionary reference.

While you're at it - define how you judge 'them' to be evil.

I'm genuinely curious as to your rational here.

Ian

Evil:
Hot rod canopy pilots wearing logo infested, color coordinated clothes.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Quote

....
If you don't have an intuitive understanding of evil, my suggestion to you is, be very very careful when you are out in public. You might get killed.

That being said, it is like pornography, I know it when I see.

Holy Crap

That's ignorance at its best. Pride goeth before a fall ....

Everyone has their own perception. Ever heard that? Anyhow, as long as it's within the rules, it's OK.

I really do not want to know what your *counselor* job means.

edited for typo

The irony meter just pegged...and broke.
[facepalm]

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

And if he threatens to kill you? Do you have to wait until he draws and fires before you can take action?

Fun watching goal posts moving all over the field.
The kick was wide right this time.

edited to add the smilies:

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Well, you are correct in that I don't much concern myself with the views of others outside the U.S.

However, am I understanding you correctly in that because I am old I should allow myself to become vulnerable to evil willingly?

No. She's saying you are an idiot for not thinking and acting like she does.

Quote

When the terrorists blew up your nightclub, did you send thank you notes?

Them dirty hooligans. They stuck to their convictions and didn't ride the waves on the sea of change.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[muff528 3]

Quote

Quote

Define evil - and I mean YOUR interpretation of evil. Not some dictionary reference.

While you're at it - define how you judge 'them' to be evil.

I'm genuinely curious as to your rational here.

Ian

Evil:
Hot rod canopy pilots wearing logo infested, color coordinated clothes.

Useta be the freestylers and the head-downers. Also 10-way done any way other than no-show, single-file, free-fly.

[billvon 2,400]

>...the point of first realization...then you run like hell. Why do you ask?

Not in Florida. "Stand your ground" and all.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>...the point of first realization...then you run like hell. Why do you ask?

Not in Florida. "Stand your ground" and all.

Doesn't mean you have to. Just that you can.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

>...the point of first realization...then you run like hell. Why do you ask?

Not in Florida. "Stand your ground" and all.

Bill, one of the major points of SYG is empowerment of the populace to protect themselves. I don't see that as a bad thing.

ANY helpful thing can be bastardized to the point of being detrimental. I don't see doing away with SYG as being a reasonable response to this situation.

Nor do I see this situation as a point of contention for reasonable political debate. It's not the concept of SYG that is wrong. It's the application in some instances.

For THIS instance, debating the application may be reasonable, arguing against the concept of SYG isn't.

Because one instance seems to stretch the intent of SYG is no reason to wipe out the entire concept.

Yes, you are going to counter that there have been more than one instance similar to this one and will want to start a debate on just how many "instances" make it UNreasonable to keep SYG.

Funny how THIS instance got all the hot-headed debate going and not any previous ones. Do you understand why that is? Why THIS one and not any other?

All this debate got started for all the wrong reasons.
It was racially motivated plain and simple.

Personally, IMHO, empowering the populace to protect themselves without fear of retribution is a good thing. All this mess has done is re-introduce the element of fear of retribution back into the equation.

I can see it now....a situation where that second of hesitation caused by the politics of this gets somebody killed when acting on SYG they could have come out alive instead.

But to some, that would be quite OK.
To some, being the sheep for the wolves is OK.
Not in my book.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[normiss 622]

Anyone who claims this was a racially motivated crime hasn't read enough about Mr. Zimmerman and his background.
I dunno, I guess it's possible he could hate his own family for their heritage as well.
Maybe he should have shot grandpa.

[RonD1120 58]

Those who fear guns do so because they know they are guilty of something for which they could be shot.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 622]

Disagree.

I have a very good friend that witnessed his father shot his mother in the face and kill her dead on the spot.
In front of the entire family.
For some odd reason, he despises guns to the point when he sees them he has tremors.
Yes, he knows he has issues.
The point stands though.

I like guns. Always have. Grew up with them. My kids did too.
I can also understand those that dislike them.
Just seeing the waste of life when used in crimes just here in central Florida is enough to understand it.
It IS a bit stupid in a lot of cases.

You have to admit it Ron, there ARE a lot of idiots with weapons. It is maddening to see their stupidity.

[RonD1120 58]

Quote

Disagree.

I have a very good friend that witnessed his father shot his mother in the face and kill her dead on the spot.
In front of the entire family.
For some odd reason, he despises guns to the point when he sees them he has tremors.
Yes, he knows he has issues.
The point stands though.

I like guns. Always have. Grew up with them. My kids did too.
I can also understand those that dislike them.
Just seeing the waste of life when used in crimes just here in central Florida is enough to understand it.
It IS a bit stupid in a lot of cases.

You have to admit it Ron, there ARE a lot of idiots with weapons. It is maddening to see their stupidity.

It was a joke post I saw on FB the other day.

I believe the idiots with the guns, in the majority of cases, are not the ones licensed for concealed carry.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[toolbox 0]

Very well stated

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Anyone who claims this was a racially motivated crime hasn't read enough ........

Same for anyone who state Zimmerman "stalked" and "profiled" TM

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mirage62 0]

Proof:

Z followed TM
There was a fight
Z had injuries to the back of his head and broken noise
TM had a scrape on ONE knuckle
Z shot TM at very close range (2-4 inches)

TM family is calling for the release of all the medical reports because they feel that the information that is being leaked is only hurting TM side (which seems to be true)

It seems to me that whoever is leaking this stuff needs to be caught and punished.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Proof:

Z followed TM
Z lost sight of TM and returned to his vehicle
TM came to where Z's vehicle was
There was a fight
Z had injuries to the back of his head and broken noise
TM had a scrape on ONE knuckle
Z shot TM at very close range (2-4 inches)

TM family is calling for the release of all the medical reports because they feel that the information that is being leaked is only hurting TM side (which seems to be true)

It seems to me that whoever is leaking this stuff needs to be caught and punished.

FIFY

and



The judge was asked to issue a gag rule

He refused

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Quote

>...the point of first realization...then you run like hell. Why do you ask?

Not in Florida. "Stand your ground" and all.

Doesn't mean you have to. Just that you can.

Ain't got no gun
got no knife
Don't you start no fight

Cos I'm
T.N.T.
I'm Dynamite
T.N.T.
And I'll win the fight
T.N.T.
I'm a power-load
T.N.T.
Watch me Explode

I'm dirty, mean and mighty unclean
I'm a Wanted man
Public Enemy Number One
Understand
So lock up your daughter
And lock up your wife
Lock up your back door
And run for your life
The man is back in town
So don't you mess around

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Z lost sight of TM and returned to his vehicle
TM came to where Z's vehicle was

You might want to check that, rush. From everything I have seen, the shooting did not take place anywhere near Zimmerman's vehicle.

[devildog 0]

You are correct. The account is GZ was walking back to his truck and TM approached and assaulted him.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[normiss 622]

In Florida we have what is referred to as the "Sunshine Law".
Public records are made available to the press and the public - with some exceptions (minor's, domestic issues, law enforcement and employees of the courts are hidden).
No laws were broken is releasing that information.

The records have been released to my knowledge.


I have said before - no matter how this turns out, a lot of people are not going to be happy. No matter what.
Especially the parents.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

You are correct. The account is GZ was walking back to his truck and TM approached and assaulted him.

I am not convinced one way or another of who started the confrontation.

Anyhow, I have seen this same map used by some who use it to "prove" that Z was the aggressor and others who use it to "prove" that TM was the aggressor. Either way, they are using the same basic map of the incident, so I assume there is no dispute over where events took place.

(The "F" marks the spot where Trayvon was killed.)