rynodigsmusic 0 #26 January 21, 2010 Quotecant say I find this cool at all. It plays exactly into the hands of those who wish to paint the US as engaged in 'Holy War' Yup, I dont like it either. The last thing Jesus would say is take up your rifle and follow me. Although, sometimes we do the wrong things for the right reasons, but it still doesnt make it right. Besides, trying to get rid of a spirit is like shooting bullets into the air."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #27 January 21, 2010 QuoteThe last thing Jesus would say is take up your rifle and follow me. Luke:22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Exodus:22:2 "If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him." Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." Psalm 144:6 "Cast forth lightning, and scatter them: shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them." Psalm 149:6 "Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two edged sword in their hand." Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes". Nehemiah 4:14-18 "Be not ye afraid of them... fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses... And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons... They which which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon. For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded." Ecclesiastes 3:1-3 "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #28 January 21, 2010 Quote Instead of getting worked up about this, I say we embrace the idea. I'm going to start marking condoms with Genesis 19:30-36. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #29 January 21, 2010 QuoteLuke:22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Dont get me wrong, the Old Testament and the old way was very brutal, but after Christ a new way of the spirit was revealed. Jesus did not come to destroy life, but to give life. He showed that the old way required a new way to be truly fulfilled. Grace and Truth. That is the sword that is spoken of in reference to almost every New Testament passage except this one. And even in this one, you can begin to see a metaphor manifesting if read in context of the spirit. Im not going to take you out of your heart... what God put there is his and im not saying that our Christian soldiers are not Christians... Im just saying that war is not the way of the spirit... but it is the way of the world, and there is a difference between them. I believe in destiny so I cant stop what is invevitable anymore than you can... im just surprised sometimes that these secrets are all in the Gospel but they continue to get overlooked generation after generation. There are many references to the sword of the spirit.. the word... grace and truth but for anyone reading this I should at least leave one. Ephesians 6:17 "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God"... but moreso I want to make sure everyone knows that I love America... our country is the greatest blessing despite its problems and I fully acknowledge the sacrafice that many have made to protect our freedoms, I just dont think that America is the greatest representation of Jesus yet. Im not talking about extreme pacifism.. im talking about grace and truth and learning how to understand and accept, and live with inner peace and joy... that kind of energy will.. can transcend, but, hasnt for almost as long as humans have been on earth. There is a war in heaven but its not fought with our weapons."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #30 January 21, 2010 Does this mean that we will no longer hear the tired old refrain "Islam is a religion of violence, and Christianity is a religion of peace?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #31 January 21, 2010 Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #32 January 21, 2010 the choice is yours....Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #33 January 21, 2010 QuoteDoes this mean that we will no longer hear the tired old refrain "Islam is a religion of violence, and Christianity is a religion of peace?" I don't believe you've heard me make any claim that the entire religion of Islam is violent. Are you going to adopt the debate practices of georgerussia now, just making stuff up about members? I think you should also consider the difference between offensive and defensive violence. The former is not justified, while the latter is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 January 21, 2010 Actually, I've changed my mind. I find this reprehensible. It's a lot like someone putting a bumper sticker on my car without my permission. Hell, when I buy a car, it's a deal breaker if the dealer puts his dealership decal on the car. freedom of speech doesn't grant a company to deviate in any way from a build spec (including gratuitous messages) I wonder how many would switch positions if the manufacturer would be engraving messages about global warming - or mockery of GWB...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #35 January 21, 2010 Quote It's a lot like someone putting a bumper sticker on my car without my permission. More like adding a couple digits to the VIN number plate. Quote Hell, when I buy a car, it's a deal breaker if the dealer puts his dealership decal on the car. Dude, you're badass! I want you on my side. Quote freedom of speech doesn't grant a company to deviate in any way from a build spec (including gratuitous messages) It wouldn't be a thing so much if it were simply product self-advertising - which is what a dealership sticker is. But an ideological message probably crosses the line (although probably less so considering how well-camouflaged the code in this instance is.) Quote I wonder how many would switch positions if the manufacturer would be engraving messages about global warming - or mockery of GWB...... Agreed. From now on, let's inscribe all firearms with the Arabic script for "Allahu Akhbar", AND pass a federal law prohibiting filing it off or covering up. I'll get the the popcorn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #36 January 21, 2010 >I don't believe you've heard me make any claim that the entire >religion of Islam is violent. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you said that. I do hope that more people realize that both Islam and Christianity are faiths based on peace, despite the more violent sections of their texts (and despite the actiona of their violent extremists.) >I think you should also consider the difference between offensive and > defensive violence. The former is not justified, while the latter is. "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #37 January 21, 2010 To me this issue is not one of freedom of speech. It is about shooting ourselves in the foot for no good reason. The baddies want people to believe that we are on a Christian Crusade in their homelands. We all know we are not, but Mohammed who just signed up to join the ANA might not be convinced. Now he gets handed a scope that his buddy tells him is inscribed with a Christian symbol. It is not unreasonable for him to now question the motives of his trainers and the US as a whole. Putting these messages on military equipment is just stupid. There is no good reason to have these messages on the scopes, but there are a lot of good reasons not to have them. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #38 January 21, 2010 That's definitely part of it as well. (See attachment for a more overt example of a message you don't want to send.) It is part of a weapon purchased by the US military; if the design of that part makes it more difficult for the military to accomplish their missions, there is certainly a good reason to have the manufacturer change it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #39 January 21, 2010 QuoteThat's definitely part of it as well. (See attachment for a more overt example of a message you don't want to send.) It is part of a weapon purchased by the US military; if the design of that part makes it more difficult for the military to accomplish their missions, there is certainly a good reason to have the manufacturer change it. During the Vietnam War, the phrases Kill'm all let God sort'm out and Kill a commie for Christ were popular. The famous peace symbol, displayed by warriors as well hippies, is from the Wiccans or some like religion. Is there any difference?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 January 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt's a lot like someone putting a bumper sticker on my car without my permission. More like adding a couple digits to the VIN number plate. I'm not sure to the size of this sight, but a few digits inscribed on it likely cover a much larger percentage of available surface area than the VIN plate - or a car decal. It's more like ordering a green car and having the dealer deliver a green car with pink doors - because he feels like it's important personally to put some pink out there. And, hey, the "body" of the car is green. This manufacturer, consistent with free speech, is very welcome to engrave anything he wants to on his private property, or his own personally owned sights. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #41 January 21, 2010 QuoteThe famous peace symbol, displayed by warriors as well hippies, is from the Wiccans or some like religion. You're misinformed. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with the nuclear disarmament movement and semaphore flags like old school Navy signal men held in their hands and used to signal each other ship to ship. The two downward diagonal lines form the "N" and the vertical line forms the "D". Nuclear Disarmament. Gotta love how you've made the symbol fit your own view of the world though.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 January 21, 2010 QuoteTo me this issue is not one of freedom of speech. It is about shooting ourselves in the foot for no good reason. There is no good reason to have these messages on the scopes, but there are a lot of good reasons not to have them. that's a practical view on it. I agree with it too. however, Free Speech absolutely protects the rights of some to shoot themselves in the foot - and does quite often but the issue really is whether it is protected by free speech. IMHO - I'd say no and that it's a purchase governed by contract. Only once you establish that this isn't a free speech issue, then your practical considerations are pertinent. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #43 January 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe famous peace symbol, displayed by warriors as well hippies, is from the Wiccans or some like religion. You're misinformed. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with the nuclear disarmament movement and semaphore flags like old school Navy signal men held in their hands and used to signal each other ship to ship. The two downward diagonal lines form the "N" and the vertical line forms the "D". Nuclear Disarmament. Gotta love how you've made the symbol fit your own view of the world though. Not me pal. That's the way it was explained to me back in the day. It was called the "Broken Cross" or "Crow's Foot" and had occult significance.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #44 January 21, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_symbolsYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #45 January 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe famous peace symbol, displayed by warriors as well hippies, is from the Wiccans or some like religion. You're misinformed. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with the nuclear disarmament movement and semaphore flags like old school Navy signal men held in their hands and used to signal each other ship to ship. The two downward diagonal lines form the "N" and the vertical line forms the "D". Nuclear Disarmament. Gotta love how you've made the symbol fit your own view of the world though. Looks like we are both right. Accuracy seems to be on your side. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/435/what-is-the-origin-of-the-peace-symbol QuoteThe design for the familiar crow's-foot-in-a-circle we know as the peace symbol was completed February 21, 1958, by British commercial artist Gerald Holtom. Holtom had been commissioned by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. The CND, headed by philosopher Bertrand Russell, was planning an Easter march to Canterbury Cathedral to protest the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment at Aldermaston. After doodling around with several versions of the Christian cross set in a circle, Holtom hit on the crow's-foot idea. This had a couple things going for it. First, it was a combination of the semaphore signals for N and D, standing for Nuclear Disarmament. N is two flags held in an upside-down V, and D is one flag pointed straight up and the other pointed straight down. Second, the crow's-foot has an ancient history as a symbol of death and despair--it looks like somebody spreading his hands in a gesture of defeat. The symbol is shown in a 1955 tome called The Book of Signs by Rudolph Koch, a German calligrapher, although it's unclear whether Holtom saw it there. The circle, finally, can mean "eternity," "the unborn child," and so on. From this you can no doubt cook up a suitably apocalyptic interpretation of the symbol as a whole. During the heyday of the peace movement, other interpretations of the symbol were also offered. A national Republican newsletter noted that it looked a lot like an emblem used by the Nazis during World War II--an apparent coincidence. Another interpretation, widely promoted by the John Birch Society and other right-wing groups, was that the symbol was really the "broken cross," sign of the Antichrist. One Bircher wrote that the broken cross had originally been devised by the Roman emperor Nero, who had Saint Peter crucified upon it upside down. In the Middle Ages the symbol allegedly was used to signify the devil. I have been unable to discover any good evidence for either of these contentions. The Birchers, you may remember, also distributed bumper stickers featuring the peace symbol with the slogan, "Footprint of the American Chicken." The far-right crowd, I tell you, they are such a stitch.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #46 January 21, 2010 QuoteThat's the way it was explained to me back in the day. "An unexamined life is not worth living." -- Socratesquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #47 January 21, 2010 Can anyone tell me where I can find a "Allahu Akbar" monogrammed suicide vest? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #48 January 21, 2010 QuoteCan anyone tell me where I can find a "Allahu Akbar" monogrammed suicide vest? Yeah, you can find little bits and pieces of them here and here and here and here and here and here and . . . (ok cheap joke) So, the real point of the joke I guess is even if there were such a thing, how would you know?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #49 January 21, 2010 Quote Quote Can anyone tell me where I can find a "Allahu Akbar" monogrammed suicide vest? Yeah, you can find little bits and pieces of them here and here and here and here and here and here and . . . I guess it is "buyer's beware" on the used market. I better look for a new model if I want more "bang" for my buck. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #50 January 21, 2010 Quotereligion is religion, as a Government we have no business pushing any of them, in even the most oblique manner, nor should any equipment issued to our soldiers. Like the dogtags that say things like "Methodist" and "Catholic", or like those fellows walking around with a CROSS on their collar, you mean? Or maybe the money they're paid in that says "In God We Trust"? And, of course, the military shouldn't have marching songs that say things like "When I get to Heaven, St. Peter's gonna say" or "If the Army and the Navy ever gaze on Heaven's scenes".Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
