So, about the so-called right to self defense in Britain

[birdlike 0]

I came across this article:

Shopkeeper fined for hitting back against shoplifter/attacker

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A shopkeeper has been fined £250 and given a criminal record because he fought back when he was attacked by shoplifters.

Jacob Smyth chased three youths out of his hardware shop in Penzance, Cornwall, when he was set upon. When he was kicked in the groin by one of the hooded youths who had stolen cans of spray paint Mr Smyth hit back.

Police issued fixed penalty tickets to the shoplifters but charged Mr Smyth and a colleague with assault.

Yesterday he pleaded guilty to assault at Truro Magistrates’ Court. He claimed after the hearing that he had been advised to plead guilty because otherwise he could have faced a six month prison sentence.

The court was told that Mr Smyth, a father of three, caught the youths stealing the spray cans in October last year. Two of them turned on him and he was kicked in his groin just weeks after a vasectomy operation. He retaliated and punched 18-year-old Craig Spiller to the ground.

Paul Gallagher, defending, said: “The court can only imagine what they intended to do with that spray paint. He could see the cans poking out of their pockets. He leant forward to get them and at that stage he was set upon.

“He did punch one of them to get him off. In the heat of the moment he kicked him once or twice. Initially he was acting in self defence. Frustration at the situation took over. The lads were interviewed and given fixed penalty notices by police but unfortunately for Mr Smyth ended up in court today.

“He was the one who was trying to do the right thing and get his stolen property back.”

Julian Herbert, prosecuting, said the “aggravating factor” of the case was shop staff “taking the law into their own hands”. Fining Mr Smyth £250 and ordering him to pay £43 costs, Angy Haslam, chairman of the magistrates, said: “The act was aggravated by the fact you kicked the victim on the ground. We feel it has been mitigated because you acted in self defence.”

Speaking outside court, Mr Smyth said: “I did nothing wrong. I was getting a good beating from this lad. I had no choice but to defend myself.

“We get shoplifters all the time � one after the other. We call the police but nothing is ever done. We called them on this occasion and ran after the lads to try and get my property back but then they turned on us. “Am I not allowed to protect my stock and premises from thieves?”

Mr Smyth’s colleague Jason Pascoe, 34, has also been charged with two counts of common assault and will appear in court at a later date.

What a load of shyte. They say that the "aggravating factor" was that he allegedly kicked the guy while he was on the ground. Sorry, that's just part of the defensive response. What if the guy was on the ground but was getting up, in the middle of saying that he's gonna finish you off? What about the fact that this shopkeeper was facing multiple attackers?!

Britain is fucked up. All of you Brits who value your right to self defense, come on over here and we'll welcome you. Those who are pussies and think that all this guy should've done was call the police and wait while being stolen from and battered, stay there.

I mean, if the Mexicans can come to the U.S. because their country is shit, and shouldn't be expected to stick around there and try to fix it, why should the Brits? Your ship is sinking into INSANITY that PROTECTS CRIMINALS.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[warpedskydiver 0]

18yr old "youths"
gimme a fucking break

[wmw999 2,122]

Oooh Oooh look -- a bandwagon

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Stumpy 256]

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Oooh Oooh look -- a bandwagon

Wendy W.

Jump on wendy, you can be a floater.

[JackC 0]

blah blah fucking blah.

[christelsabine 1]

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Britain is fucked up. All of you Brits who value your right to self defense, come on over here and we'll welcome you. Those who are pussies and think that all this guy should've done was call the police and wait while being stolen from and battered, stay there.

Holy Crap, what a nonsense. (But if makes you feel better.... go on and enjoy . It's SC)

When did you visit GB last time? Oh sorry, wait: Do you even posses a passport? You can't leave w/o that small pc of laminated fibre material nor enter GB w/o it.

Thanks God! Bwahahaha

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Kennedy 0]

Point, Counter-Point

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6760618

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Store Clerk Shoots and Kills Robbery Suspect
July 9, 2007 10:15 AM EDT

Some valley store owners say they are tired of being victimized and now they're fighting back. For the third time in a month, a store clerk shot an armed robber. The suspect in this recent case was killed.

An employee shot and injured an armed intruder at a smoke shop near Washington and Lamb last month. Two weeks later, the owners of a jewelry store at Charleston and Mohave wrestled the gun away from a would-be robber and shot and killed him during the scuffle.

On Sunday morning, North Las Vegas Police say a convenience store clerk threatened at gunpoint pulled out his own gun and shot the armed suspect killing him.

"This has been more common here recently that our store owners are not laying down to be victims, they're taking steps to protect themselves and other patrons in the store," said Sean Walker, North Las Vegas Police Department.

Restaurant manager Mina Reyes says her sandwich shop on South Rainbow has been hit twice by armed masked gunman despite the store's obvious security surveillance system.

"I don't feel safe here, especially at night because it is so dark in this area," said Reyes.

She says she's had one employee quit after being held up and says its difficult to hire people once they hear the restaurant has been robbed twice. Police understand how tempting it is for shop owners and managers to arm themselves but they have serious reservations about it.

"Defending yourself with a weapon is not for everyone. If you choose to do it, we advise you to take a weapons course, practice, and remember, you have to be willing to use it,"Walker said.

Police say as a general rule, the safer option is to give an armed assailant what they want because nothing is more valuable than your life.

North Las Vegas Police say, at this point, no charges will be filed against the store clerk in Sunday's shooting. Investigators say it appears the clerk feared for his life and was acting in self defense when he shot and killed the armed suspect.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[ScottishJohn 25]

A word of warning to anyone who moves to the USA ,

Make sure you cut your lawn.

Apparently there is not enough serious crime in the USA so the police have to fill up their time cautioning people about the state of their grass lawn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6282348.stm


I saw this a couple of days ago and wondered why no one posted about this brave public servants actions.

John

----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers

[juanesky 0]

huh?

Same goes to what you are saying. Implying that because he is in the US, he does not have passport.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[wmw999 2,122]

Best guess is that around 21% of Americans have a passport. (from travelagentcentral).

So if it's an assumption, it has about an 80% chance of being true.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[juanesky 0]

Some people did, and he is on admin leave.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

Still, is just like me assuming she is a nazi, just because she is from Germany.. Guess it makes it ok.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[billvon 2,400]

> Still, is just like me assuming she is a nazi, just because she is from Germany . . .

If 80% of germans were in the nazi party, that would be correct. They're not. So it doesn't work.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

This is a stupid fucking thread that brings SC to a new low.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[warpedskydiver 0]

There are a few of us, that may have from time to time, wished we had never left US soil.

When we weren't being proud ambassadors of our country...



and banging every hottie we could.

[juanesky 0]

So, then what you are implying then, that since most people in Islamic countries wear turbans, kufi, or what have you, is ok to call them cloth heads?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[kelpdiver 2]

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Best guess is that around 21% of Americans have a passport. (from travelagentcentral).

So if it's an assumption, it has about an 80% chance of being true.

Wendy W.

But sort of meaningless, unless you don't need a passport to visit the other members of the EU. The US is the size of Europe, and the diversity of culture, if not strictly language, is in the ballpark. And until last year/next year, you did not need a passport to visit Canada, Mexico, or most of the Caribbean.

With a couple pints I'd argue that you could stay within California borders and experience a pretty wide range of cultural and geographical experiences.

As for the story, well, nothing new to see here. Their line of acceptable force is shallower than our's (and no where near Texas's).

[dorbie 0]

You can plead guilty to a ham sandwich.

Something doesn't add up, in the tale he and a colleague were charged but there's no mention of his actions in the story. Also the youths were not charged with assault, if they had assaulted him as claimed they would have been. Who knows what spin we're getting on this. Reading between the lines, it sounds like they ran and two shopkeepers cornered one and gave him a kicking.

Even someone making excuses for the shopkeeper admits he lost it. It's one thing to act in self defense and recover stolen goods or make a citizens arrest. Its another to kick the shit out of someone as they lie on the ground.

"Initially he was acting in self defence. Frustration at the situation took over."

I know Americans like to see 'perps' get the shit kicked out of them on TV before being hauled off for a good buggering at the local pen, but in the UK the rule of thumb is that the judges determine the sentence, thank you very much. The sentence for first time offender kids stealing spray paint is not yet "A good kicking by two bigger guys in size 10s".

[juanesky 0]

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This is a stupid fucking thread that brings SC to a new low.

I agree to a point. Most British on this site have stated that they are not interested in gun ownership, but then rant off on against people who actually like and own guns. It has been proven in many instances, that in the UK they are willing to condemn you for years, if you decide to attack, or defend yourself against intruders, in the meantime, people over there had to give up their firearms, and for most even their privacy.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Skyrad 0]

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Britain is fucked up. All of you Brits who value your right to self defense, come on over here and we'll welcome you. Those who are pussies and think that all this guy should've done was call the police and wait while being stolen from and battered, stay there.

Judging a whole country by one article in a newspaper... Priceless.

P.S Send my love to the Billygoats Gruff when you see them Nice try

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[kelpdiver 2]

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The sentence for first time offender kids stealing spray paint is not yet "A good kicking by two bigger guys in size 10s".

Actually, the story says the 'kids' kicked first, scoring a nice hit on the family jewels. Ignoring the recent surgery, that sort of action leaves you open to some retaliatory pain. But you're right - the story does beg the question of what's not being said.

[Skyrad 0]

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So, then what you are implying then, that since most people in Islamic countries wear turbans, kufi, or what have you, is ok to call them cloth heads?

LMFAO You really believe that crap don't you

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[juanesky 0]

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So, then what you are implying then, that since most people in Islamic countries wear turbans, kufi, or what have you, is ok to call them cloth heads?

LMFAO You really believe that crap don't you

Maybe you need to travel there, you want to see my personal pictures while in either Qatar, Iraq, Kuwait, Dubai?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

The sentence for first time offender kids stealing spray paint is not yet "A good kicking by two bigger guys in size 10s".

Actually, the story says the 'kids' kicked first, scoring a nice hit on the family jewels. Ignoring the recent surgery, that sort of action leaves you open to some retaliatory pain. But you're right - the story does beg the question of what's not being said.

The man who pleaded guilty claims that he was hit first, but the kids were not charged with assault which they would have been if there were evidence or testimony to that effect. The devil is in the details here and I think it's impossible to judge based on the article, the gaps in the story are pegging my bullshit meter though.