packing

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

How long did it take you guys to learn to pack? I'm working on my A license, and I finally have my own gear. I have tried to pack it with assistance probably 10 times. I can never get it finished on my own, and to be honest if I work on it completely alone I don't even come close. I just spent an hour and a half on my floor wrestling the goddamn thing, and I didn't even get it into the bag..

My main problems:
1) I can't seem to figure out WHAT I'm looking at when I'm staring down in there. I can usually find the A lines and B lines, but the real problems start when I try to flake between C and D lines.. I eventually get it flaked, but have no idea if I ever got the D lines centered, or the material to the outside. I really have a hard time telling what I'm looking at in there, with all the lines, the material and the slider.

2) When I cocoon the canopy I can't get it slim enough to fit in the d-bag without screwing up the lines and pulling the tail off the slider. Whenever I try to tuck the edges underneath the canopy and make it slimmer it poofs back out on the sides when I lay down on it to push out the air.

3) The S-folds just turn into a fat wad of canopy that has no chance of fitting into the bag..

So how long did it take you to become proficient at packing? I've seen pack like a PRO, I have a 40 minute video from PD on my computer that goes step by step packing a sabre 170, and I've had people go through it with me at the DZ. I'm getting frustrated. Any tips?

[NWFlyer 2]

You sound exactly like me. I don't know precisely how long it took me to "get it" and I'm still not the world's speediest packer. But keep at it, and keep practicing at the DZ - that's how I finally figured it out - by continuing to pack, at the DZ, with others who knew what they were doing watching me and giving me tips.

Sometimes that was good, sometimes that was bad, because everyone has their own style of packing. That can lead to tips that can make it easier for you, but that can also mean it can be more confusing because everyone throws in their little twist on the process when all you want to do is understand the basics.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[wrightskyguy 1]

1st off, don't call it a goddamn thing, bad karma. Just keep practicing, it'll come to you. One thing I do that helps alot is when you make your 1st S fold, put the tail seam a couple of inches from the bottom, then make the 2nd fold over it. This will help keep the slider in place when you're putting it in the bag. Keep tension on your lines and don't be afraid to manhandle the canopy a little bit, use it all, hands, elbows, knees, whatever it takes. If you keep air from re-entering your canopy, it wont poof out when you cocoon it. Resist the urge to pay for pack jobs until you are proficient. One of the most pitiful things you will ever see at a dz is an up jumper that shows up unpacked and can't make a load because he can't find someone to pack for him.

Good Luck

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

[firstime 0]

yup, not fun... I got to the point once where as I was practicing on my living floor...sweating and started cursing at my canopy... "you miserable f&*king little spiteful piece of nylon " and threatened it with pair of scissors. I wish I had a video of myself... Oh well, everyone does it a little different, what helped me was while I am laying on it, take your hands and keep tucking it under your body and before you get up reach underneath about 1/3 of the way up and grab the fabric just prior to your S fold. Good luck. And scissors do work

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

I remember packing my first ZP canopy and it won many times before I got really proficient at it. Like another poster said, learn how to control the canopy with your arms, knees, legs, etc so that at each step of the process you have absolute control. Seek out really good packers to help you learn these control points. Keep at it and good luck.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[Stuntbabex 0]

When I was working on my packing technique I offered to pack for one of my friends for free just so I could get some practice (since I didnt have my own gear). That way I had gear to practice on and a friend to make sure I was doing it right.

[Baksteen 84]

I have a hundred jumps, but I long ago lost count of how many packjobs I have.
Most of them unpaid, too..

-On rainy weekend days there was always a friend who'd help me learn to pack if I asked them.
-If student gear needed to be packed, I'd occasionally volunteer. Those packjobs need to be supervised by an instructor, so I got a lot of help and practice. Additionally, those canopies are mainly F111, which is easier to pack.
-I hardly ever use packers.

This works best with a canopy that hasn't been jumped, as the package tends to be neater as you put it over your shoulder. Just carefully pull it out of tyhe D-bag.

First of all, lay your rig down neatly, this will also help you identify any riser twists.
Also, make sure that you are standing right in front of your rig, the "left and right sides" of the canopy (from your current point of view) should be at equal height in front of you.
Reach behind you and pull any slack out of the lines behind you.

When done flaking the "upper part", between the A and B-lines:
(I am assuming you have a larger canopy, as do I. It helps if the canopy is "high up" on your chest, if you know what i mean - as little excess line hanging down your chest as possible/convenient.)

Can you recognise your steering lines? Count them on one side, and slightly lift them. Now try to find the D-lines on that side. Hint: You can see where a line is going if you follow it down from the slider grommet. Now you also can take the D-lines in the hand with which you are holding your steering lines and lift both line groups slightly. Put your hand down between the fabric as far as you can, and flake. Now pull the C-lines towards the centre. You could probably see at least some of them when you lifted the D and steering lines.

Repeat on the other side, roll the tail as you know how to do.
Place the canopy on the ground.
Pick up, pull apart and repeat. Doesn't matter that everything is still more or less flaked, it will help you understand what you're looking at.
At least, it worked for me.

When practicing putting your canopy in the D-bag, at first don't worry about the lines. Just S-fold neatly, put in bag, pull out, cocoon again, repeat, repeat,repeat......repeat until you see the light. Then pull your canopy out again and start over the packjob entirely. This time, pack carefully since you are going to jump this.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[mircan 0]

Just couple more thing to add...
- I find that knees, apart from the hands obviously, are most helpful.
- See here also. Couple of good tips that I used afterwards.
- get friends with local packer/rigger. I did, and he shown me couple of tricks: where to press with my hand, where to press with my knee, etc.
- as above, all is in technique (those little tricks), and nothing is in the force ( ). The more you sweat, the harder it gets.
- don`t allow canopy to breathe. always constrain it with something. hand, knee, forhead, chin...

Those were about stuffing it in the bag, BC i think that is the biggest pain in the ars (trust me, I just got brand new safire 2).

Also, as mentioned above, pack at home anytime you can. It`s all practice.

cu

dudeist skydiver #42

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I am a newbie, & I struggled too. Here are a few things that helped me:

1. I made friends with a rigger/packer who is always on the packing floor. I watch her a lot, and she offers suggestions constantly.

2. I asked another rigger for help with packing faster. He taught me to hold the nose of the canopy in one hand (BEFORE putting it between my knees), lift it up, and flake between the A & B lines. Then put the nose between my legs.

3. Psycho pack. Packs easily, and deploys nicely.

4. Practice. Practice, Practice.

Blue Skies

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[taylor.freefall 0]

Quote

How long did it take you guys to learn to pack? I'm working on my A license, and I finally have my own gear. I have tried to pack it with assistance probably 10 times. I can never get it finished on my own, and to be honest if I work on it completely alone I don't even come close. I just spent an hour and a half on my floor wrestling the goddamn thing, and I didn't even get it into the bag..

My main problems:
1) I can't seem to figure out WHAT I'm looking at when I'm staring down in there. I can usually find the A lines and B lines, but the real problems start when I try to flake between C and D lines.. I eventually get it flaked, but have no idea if I ever got the D lines centered, or the material to the outside. I really have a hard time telling what I'm looking at in there, with all the lines, the material and the slider.

2) When I cocoon the canopy I can't get it slim enough to fit in the d-bag without screwing up the lines and pulling the tail off the slider. Whenever I try to tuck the edges underneath the canopy and make it slimmer it poofs back out on the sides when I lay down on it to push out the air.

3) The S-folds just turn into a fat wad of canopy that has no chance of fitting into the bag..

So how long did it take you to become proficient at packing? I've seen pack like a PRO, I have a 40 minute video from PD on my computer that goes step by step packing a sabre 170, and I've had people go through it with me at the DZ. I'm getting frustrated. Any tips?

I'm in exactly the same same position as you. I was reading about reverse s folds, or something like that, to get it in the bag easier. If you do a search something should pop up. I wish I had something to suggest but I'm clueless as well. Good luck with it anyway and keep practicing I guess. Oh one thing - I use a hook to practice rather than put it over my shoulder, that might help a bit at first if (like me) you take a long time with it and find yourself getting tired.

[Titanman2789 0]

took me a good month before it actually clicked and i could do every part of packing myself. then a month or maybe more before i could build up some speed and start packing faster. but now im a packer at the DZ. start off with the basics. dont start trying all these new tips and different ways of packing. once you finally get it down, then try the new tips you get. then you'll really be able to understand how much easier it can be

[riggerrob 562]

1) You are wasting a lot of time on a minor point.
As long as the lines are straight, flaking the bottom skin is a minor point.
For example, many pro pond swoopers don't even bother flaking their bottom skins, because their canopies are so tiny they cannot get a hand inside.

2) Start by kneeling on the slider/lower edge of the tail to clamp it. Then grab the sides and lay down slowly. It is going to take a couple of minutes to squeeze out excess air.
You cannot force this step, so just be patent.
Just lay there quietly.
Once you have squeezed out most of the air, keep your knnes on the slider/lower edge of tail and start folding the sides in until they are about the same width as the d-bag.
Maintain your knee grip on the slider/low edge of the tail.
Maintain your hand grip on the sides of the canopy.
Calmly lay on the canopy a second time.
Calm is the key word here.
The proces sis going to take two or three minutes and there is nothing you can do to speed it up, so relax and enjoy.

3) S-folding?
HAH!
I gave up on that method at the turn of the century!
Instead, divide folding the canopy into three separate steps. Then stuff each step in separately and squeez out more air before moving on to the next "stuffing" step.

Once you have the canopy "cocooned" to about the same width as the d-bag (and most of the air squeezed out), gently "step" your knees up to 1/4 of the height of the canopy.
Fold the canopy in half, so that the bridle attachment is down near the orange warning label.
Lay the canopy on your lap and use your forearms to squeeze out more air.
Loosely fold the top of the canopy (bridle attachment up towards the top fold (more on this later).
Now, slide the d-bag under your knees.
Use your knees to clamp the canopy to the d-bag and use your knees to clamp the canopy to the floor.
Stuff the (half way) fold into the top corners of the d-bag.
Press on the d-bag - for half a minute - to expell excess air.
Now, stuff the top 1/4 of the canopy into the d-bag.
Squeeze the d-bag again to expell air.
Hint: grab the lip to hold the d-bag closed while you press.
Next, grab the lines below the canopy and slide your hand up to confirm that the slider is still hard up against the bottom of the canopy.
Finally, fold the bottom of the canopy in half and stuff it into the middle of d-bag.
Stow the first rubber band and catch your breath.

Congratulations!
You just bagged a canopy!
More importantly, you learned that slow and steady wins the race.
You also learned that it is going to take two minutes to squeeze all the air out of the canopy. You jump up and down and scream at the canopy for two minutes or you can lay there quietly for two minutes. The result is the same and it always takes two minutes using either technique.

[lauraliscious 0]

There are A LOT of ways to pack a canopy, and it took me a long time to develop my own way, from a combination of lots of different methods I picked up from various people. If you see someone packing a way you're not familiar with ask them to show you what they're doing. I didn't really establish my method of packing until I had about 250 jumps or so, so it took a while of struggling with it for me but I dislike using packers so I'm glad I finally found something that works.

I personally put the slider behind my neck to get it out of the way while I'm flaking. Then I put the seperate line sets over each shoulder so I'm basically standing in the middle of the canopy looking down at it. Flake one side at a time. This is difficult to explain in words, it would be much easier if someone you know packs this way and could show you. Also, something else that helps is color coding the tabs (where they meet the canopy fabric) of each set of lines (ie. all A lines red, B lines blue, etc.). My Pilot came from the factory like this, and I'm not sure what (if any) negative effect coloring the tabs yourself would have, so maybe ask your rigger before doing this.

I also Psycho Pack. I really really struggled with getting my canopy in the bag before I learned how to psycho pack. Now I have no trouble at all, even with brand new ZP fabric. Good openings too. You just really have to find out what works best for you. Good luck!

Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091

[towerrat 0]

Quote

when you make your 1st S fold, put the tail seam a couple of inches from the bottom

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bad idea. I've seen canopy fabric get line burn from doing this.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[AggieDave 6]

Packing is one of those things that isn't too hard once you are shown and you practice many many many many...many times over.

I highly recommend that you call up PD and ask for a copy of their packing video. Its the video that Scott Miller put together and it does a great job of breaking down the how, the way and the what.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wrightskyguy 1]

Quote

Bad idea. I've seen canopy fabric get line burn from doing this.

*** I've done it about 5000 times and never burned any fabric.

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

• Quote

[d123 1]

PD Packing
http://www.90percent.it/news/PDPacking.wmv

Packing Made Simple it's also a good one.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[Ahuey 0]

Just give up and pay a packer or quit being a big baby and do it

[Beer 0]

Find someone with a F-111 or older ZP that won't inflate. See if they will let you practice a few times with that. I don't even need to lay on my Clipper, it just lays flat.

Learn to be happy. You can't be there for anybody else in life if you can't learn to be there for yourself.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

My main problems:
1) I can't seem to figure out WHAT I'm looking at when I'm staring down in there. I can usually find the A lines and B lines, but the real problems start when I try to flake between C and D lines.. I eventually get it flaked, but have no idea if I ever got the D lines centered, or the material to the outside. I really have a hard time telling what I'm looking at in there, with all the lines, the material and the slider.

Lauralicious says:
"I personally put the slider behind my neck to get it out of the way while I'm flaking. Then I put the seperate line sets over each shoulder so I'm basically standing in the middle of the canopy looking down at it. Flake one side at a time. "

What she is describing is the "2-shoulder" flaking method and it is great for learning just WHAT you are doing when you are flaking and it is much simpler to do a good job when you are first starting out.

When you walk up your lines, put the left-side line groups over you left shoulder and the right side over the right. The canopy will divide itself nicely into the two halves with the center cell right down the middle in front of you.

Spread out the stabilizer a little, take the brake lines in your hand (pulling the material between the lines out away from you) and the line groups are completely and easily visible. They will be separated by length with the D lines the longest and the A lines the shortest.

With the brakes lines already in your hand, put ALL the D-lines (the longest ones) in your hand with them and flake softly outward between the D and C lines. Then add all the C lines to your hand and flake softly outward between the Cs and Bs, add all the Bs and flake between the Bs and As. Lay all the lines down of top of each other. There you have it done on that side!

When you finish a side, gently lift out the stabilizer and look at what you've done. You will see nice, smooth, S-type folds of material flaked out from between the line groups.

Repeat for the other side. When you have done both sides, quarter the slider, gather ALL the lines in one hand, push in the nose, wrap with the tail, roll the tail and lay it down like a baby. Flaking done easily and painlessly.

Keep in mind: Student packers always flake too hard when starting out. Flake softly. If you flake outward too hard you will be pulling the material out of the side you've already done. An easy way to tell just how soft is to watch the center seam as you flake. If it gets pulled to the side you are flaking, you're flaking too hard. All you need is a gentle push to the outside to get the material out from between the lines while keeping that center seam down the middle in front of you.

Quote

2) When I cocoon the canopy I can't get it slim enough to fit in the d-bag without screwing up the lines and pulling the tail off the slider.

You've already got some good advice here but I will simply add:
It's all about control. Use your hands, your elbows, your knees, your chest, whatever it takes to keep that cocoon in a slim configuration. Blows out the side? Use your knees on each side to help prevent that. As soon as you let it go, it will, as you've already discovered, suck air and blow up on you. Contain it, press it down, keep hands or whatever on it to contain it.

It will be somewhat like trial and error to figure out what works best for you. It's gonna be tough at first, but as you go, you'll be figuring out ways to simplify and ease the process...keep thinking...you'll come up with methods on your own.

Other than that? Practice, practice, practice.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239