Have you had a friend die while skydiving?

[meatmissile 0]

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Thats just a red herring comment designed to provoke a reaction.

Partly right. It was designed to get you to reveal your thinking, and I could justly claim that it may have been partly successful. As for posting in other threads - I have been a regular reader of your posts. I read a lot here - more than I post. I just don't choose to express opinions on the topical forums, what with my 300 - odd jumps and all. For example, I strongly support your views on AAD's, as expressed somewhere in the incidents forum.

What I disagree with is sensationalising the danger aspect of skydiving too much, which is what I think you are doing here. I've seen FJC's much fuller than normal just after an incident was reported in the media. You may be getting to the wrong people that way.

--
ZZZzzzz....

[happythoughts 0]

Personally, I don't think that a huge number of people die skydiving. However, just because it's not a big number doesn't make it "safe". Few skydivers will admit to how many people that they know with metal in them.

Think of the friends that you know who have 5+ years in sport. How many have broken something? If 40% of your friends had metal screws in them from driving their cars, I'd say that your friends couldn't drive.

[rehmwa 2]

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What I disagree with is sensationalising the danger aspect of skydiving too much, which is what I think you are doing here.

You are wrong in thinking that.

I've had one close friend lose track of altitude while watching his student on descent. He hooked in too late and stayed in the hospital for a few years in a coma before dying.

Pay attention, your job is over once you track away from the student right up until you land safely and walk over to take the walkie talkie. Then you are back on duty. Take care of yourself first because you can't care for the student if you get hurt on the basics.

This sport is fun, life affirming, and full of smiles. But it's also deadly serious and needs focus. This is not a conflict if you are mature.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[livendive 8]

I've been fortunate to only lose two skydiving friends in 9 years, one to a car wreck, one to skydiving. I've known others who've died, but they were more 'friendly acquaintances' than 'friends'. A few of them were to skydiving, and one of them was to what seems to be the second biggest killer of skydivers...suicide.

Of all the skydivers I've jumped with in the last 9 years, I can only think of one who has died from "old age" (a heart attack during his retirement cruise).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Michele 1]

FFG....

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I don't remeber anyone saying that their stearing wheel feel off in ther laps, ever...

(O.k., so this is a total aside...)

My father had the steering wheel come off in his hands while driving the Malibu Canyon road many years ago. At least the brakes didn't fail...

I've suggested to him he may not want to skydive. He tells me he won't ever consider it...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rehmwa 2]

That steering wheel would be mounted on the wall of my workout room as a decoration. Too wierd.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 7]

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What I disagree with is sensationalising the danger aspect of skydiving too much, which is what I think you are doing here.

No, I am asking a simple question...One of Three. The purpose of these questions is to wake up the newer jumpers who have not yet had to see or experience the loss that they WILL experience in this sport.

Fact is you jump long enough you WILL see or know a friend that bounces.

A large number of newer jumpers think this is a safe sport....Safer than driving.

Its not. I don't expect one of my buddies outside of skydiving to die every other year.

In skydiving I DO expect it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[airdvr 198]

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The purpose of these questions is to wake up the newer jumpers who have not yet had to see or experience the loss that they WILL experience in this sport.

Fact is you jump long enough you WILL see or know a friend that bounces.

It's the biggest reason I took a 10+ year break from the sport. It just hurt too damned much. There's alot of good points on this thread. I'm just getting back into the sport, but I have a very different viewpoint now. I know that its as safe as you make it (with the odd exception that is uncontrollable). It would seem a rather easy task...just slow down before you hit the big rock that's right there in front of you.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[flyangel2 2]

I've seen too many friends die. That's why when I see friends doing stupid shit, I get in their face.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[meatmissile 0]

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Fact is you jump long enough you WILL see or know a friend that bounces.

So I suppose if you carry that argument further you will conclude that if one jumps long enough, one would oneself inevitably bounce? That is statistics 101. If a million monkeys jump up and down on the keyboards of a million typewriters long enough, they will eventually compose the complete works of Shakespeare (Jonathan Swift, I think. From Guilliver's Travels)

Every one of us can die skydiving. We can also die choking on a pretzel. There is a label on my harness that states that skydiving is a hazardous activity. I think people are informed enough of the risks.

A mature adult does not need to fear in order to appreciate risk, and I think that statements like the one of yours I quoted is calculated to scare others.

Ron, plenty of people here stress the need for ongoing training on a regular basis. Methods differ. I think trying to scare people is the wrong way to go about it.

BUT in all your posts I have read so far, I have yet to come across a single instance of you changing your mind about something. I'm withdrawing from this argument.

--
ZZZzzzz....

[smiles 0]

yes, 2--tragedies--

1. A very close friend, Michael Mellick 33 who was in love with this sport. Dual tandem fatality- Mike had over 2,000 tandem jumps and was tandem instructor, main mal & cut away. Never was found out why reserve was not activated....except possible death grip from passenger on his hands......thud was so loud many residents in the rural farming community thought there had been a car accident. Combe, 36 the tandem passenger had given a tandem jump to his daugher as a birthday gift and she was estatic to try and dared her father to also make a jump. Combe's wife and family watched in horror. His daughter was tandem on same load, which landed safe and close to where her father and Michael lay dead.

2. Awesome friend, experienced skydiver- Sylvia Durand- under canopy spiraled 50 ft. from ground.


SMiles.

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Your earlier post asked if you had "seen" a friend die skydiving. I will reiterate what I did in my last post on your other thread. I saw one of my "friends" go in in 2002. He was one of the first friends I made at Skydive Chicago besides Roger and the SDC crew when I first arrived and he was also my teammate. Although many people were upset by his judgment that led to his death and said some really nasty things afterward about the event (which were probably right), he was still my friend. That was the only fatality I actually witenessed and it was a visual which took me about 3-4 weeks to get over. Every morning I woke up for 3-4 weeks after it happened I vividly recalled seeing it happen. As far as losing friends in this sport, I have lost 3 friends to skydiving, 2 acquaintences and 3 skydiver friends to non-skydiving related events.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[mouth 0]

Her name was Michelle. The posts about her deaths were what brought me to posting to DZ.com. I still haven't deleted the last emails from her about our plans for the following weekend since she was coming home and going to stay with me.
One day I'll delete them, but not today.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[bch7773 0]

yeah, apart from making people sad when they think of their departed friends, im not sure what this thread accomplishes.

If i ask "how many of you have had a relative die of heart attack?", will that make people who aren't active get up and exercise? probably not.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[bobsled92 0]

Lost 1 friend
9 years ago, this month.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[GravityGirl 0]

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Fact is you jump long enough you WILL see or know a friend that bounces.

So I suppose if you carry that argument further you will conclude that if one jumps long enough, one would oneself inevitably bounce? That is statistics 101. If a million monkeys jump up and down on the keyboards of a million typewriters long enough, they will eventually compose the complete works of Shakespeare (Jonathan Swift, I think. From Guilliver's Travels)

Every one of us can die skydiving. We can also die choking on a pretzel. There is a label on my harness that states that skydiving is a hazardous activity. I think people are informed enough of the risks.

A mature adult does not need to fear in order to appreciate risk, and I think that statements like the one of yours I quoted is calculated to scare others.

Ron, plenty of people here stress the need for ongoing training on a regular basis. Methods differ. I think trying to scare people is the wrong way to go about it.

BUT in all your posts I have read so far, I have yet to come across a single instance of you changing your mind about something. I'm withdrawing from this argument.

So I guess your answer was, "No". No one on your inner circle of freinds has gone in.

Once you take that trip, it affects you for life. Most of us don't stop jumping. But the wheels in the head keep turning. Mortals trying to make sense out of mortality.

1998 was a VERY bad year.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[winsor 187]

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You don't think all this talk of death is likely to put potential skydivers reading this forum off what is really a very safe sport?

Aside from being unseasonally gloomy, that is?
Edited to add:

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A lot of new jumpers actually think driving to the airport is more dangerous than jumping.....Steve1

Statistically speaking, they would be right.

This has been thrashed unmercifully, but the short form response is: bullshit.

[BASE813 0]

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You don't think all this talk of death is likely to put potential skydivers reading this forum off what is really a very safe sport?

Aside from being unseasonally gloomy, that is?
Edited to add:

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A lot of new jumpers actually think driving to the airport is more dangerous than jumping.....Steve1

Statistically speaking, they would be right.

This is the sort of thought that is dangerous.......

SKYDIVING IS Dangerous........... I think that alot of people fail to remember this. Complacency is not healthy - just because 10's of 000's jumps have gone right before does not mean there needs to be no thought about your next one - remember each time you exit an aircraft you are effectively a dead man falling until you are back in the hanger with your kit on the floor.........

[Rainbo 0]

yes.

In the 23+ years I have been around skydiving I have had about the same number of friends (yes, friends, dinners, weddings, birthdays...) go in. Several more from other nasties in life.

Nothing in life is safe. Paying attention to details and your environment help you to stay alive. I do not get into the "safer than" debates. My friends seem to get taken out in a lot of different ways.

Can you take yourself out easier skydiving? DOH!! We are high speed folks, and the only constant is the sudden stop at the end of our game. Think about it for a minute. How many other things do you do in life where the only sure result is that you will die unless you safe yourself.

I would suggest you all throw your F***ING statistics out the door and realize what the real game here is.

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[BASE813 0]

nice!

thats the way!

[Ron 7]

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So I suppose if you carry that argument further you will conclude that if one jumps long enough, one would oneself inevitably bounce? That is statistics 101. If a million monkeys jump up and down on the keyboards of a million typewriters long enough, they will eventually compose the complete works of Shakespeare (Jonathan Swift, I think. From Guilliver's Travels)

You are taking advice from a fiction writter?

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Every one of us can die skydiving. We can also die choking on a pretzel. There is a label on my harness that states that skydiving is a hazardous activity. I think people are informed enough of the risks.

And I don't and its clear you never read the other threads I asked you to read...Others don't as well. Until you read the other threads there is no point in this exchange.

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A mature adult does not need to fear in order to appreciate risk, and I think that statements like the one of yours I quoted is calculated to scare others

Not scare...Make aware. And like I said read the other threads..Many people think this sport IS safe.

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BUT in all your posts I have read so far, I have yet to come across a single instance of you changing your mind about something

Ah the 45 degree rule comes to my mind.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[freeflir29 0]

I've been lucky.......I haven't yet. Had a few friends get SERIOUSLY broken but no fatalities yet.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Yes. 4 friends lost in 14 months.

[Jimbo 0]

MM, I noticed that you never answered Ron's question. It was a fairly simple question requiring a fairly simple answer. Have you had a friend die while skydiving? All it requires from you is a yes or no.

Ron, I suspect that those who harp on the "it's safer than driving to the DZ" bandwagon -haven't- lost a friend skydiving. They've heard stories, but it's always someone else - far away, no face to put to the name, no memories, it's always "the other guy". These folks have never been closely involved with those who played the game, and lost.

Just an observation.

Edit: Ron, my answer to your question is yes. Unfortunately.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Faber 0]

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Statistically speaking, they would be right.

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No they would not....Do a search again.

I have lost many more friends to skydiving than ALL other forms of death. Now as I get older illness I am sure will take more and more.

what does people expect?
you can die or get serius injuryed while skydiving,people has and will still do so.
Longer time in the sport means that you know more people that take that chance,thats why you have lost more freinds to skydive than to other.
when your talking statistik you must not mix thouse two.

In DK we genneral says that it is safer to skydive than riding a motorbike(not a car or other regular traffic),i do agree in that,but i do agree whith you that genneral traffic is rerallativ safe,i think it would be hard to find out which were most dangerus.

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But like I sais skydiving is not safe, and the thought that it is is the very reason I post these...New people, and people that have never jumped need to understand that people die in this sport....

If people dont see the danger thing after have signed papers on this all over the world,then they probaly shouldnt jump...

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I have a lot more friends that drive..But I have more dead skydivers in my life than dead drivers.

how many of thouse drive a motor bike?im sure not as many as you know that skydive..

people either think that skydive either is safe or dangerus,i do belive in both...
'why?
i do belive that jumpers that knows how to do it right can do it in a safly way,but doing it safly can leed to more curage that can leed tonot so safly jumps..

its up to each of us to deside if a jump is worth the risk,sadly in skyworld,backing down dont seems as an option when you loose your student status.. now think of that aspect.. when were the last time you desided to stay in the plane for a ride down even as your freinds jumps and you have the gear.. talk about pressure..
oh well

Stay safe
Stefan Faber