DougH 270 #51 July 3, 2008 No, they don't use Gelvanor, which is often times called South African ZP. I don't think the fabric mill makes the stuff any more, so any new canopies made out of it is being made from old stock. At least to the best of my knowledge."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #52 July 3, 2008 QuoteI heard some talk in here awhile back about South African ZP material... Whats uP with that? Good stuff or what? Its not in production anymore that what I've heard about it. From some canopy designer: QuoteThats not the best Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #53 July 3, 2008 Hey Dan! Glad you liked the Storm! They really are sweet canopies. Rolling or pushing the nose on most modern PD canopies is not necessary and even creates problems for the "less forgiving" models. Most canopies these days are designed for soft, slow openings and don't require any special "packing tricks." Rolling the nose is a technique used to slow down the openings on canopies which are opening more briskly than desired. "End cell closure" is normal for canopies designed for soft, slow openings. Usually the crossports will inflate them from within without any help from you, but if you want to speed the process along, simply flare (above the stall point) with the rear risers or with your toggles if you have already unstowed them. Basically, you're normal control check will take care of it. Here's a link to a video on the subject from the PD website: http://www.performancedesigns.com/pdzone/videos_endcellclosure.asp Keep having fun! Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #54 July 3, 2008 I load my SabreII right at 1:1 and usually have end cell closures. A quick pump of the rear risers and they're open.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #55 July 4, 2008 Hello Kim, what is the waiting list like for the Storm demos? _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dannydan 0 #56 July 4, 2008 kimmiekim.... YOU are so way chica! I do remember our last fone conversation about the PD endcell closure vid! I have yet to be able to view it but I will soon... I have decided to uPdate an old local bands hit song about "Riding the STORM out"!!! I will make it fit this new PD canopy!!! WOOHOO!! one more thAng, there is not anything more sweeter than waking uP to a woman in the morning and seeing Her blowin kisses at ya from Her zebra print bed linens!!! s @ K!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #57 August 11, 2008 A friend of mine wants to get one (107), but she's been looking everywhere and didn't get list prices; also, no word on delivery times anywhere. Any info around? ETA: Called PD and their list price is 1930 USD and delivery times for custom orders are 8-9 weeks now (August 11th '08).The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyhawke 0 #58 August 11, 2008 Hey Kim, I received the 150 demo and flew it around over the weekend. One question I have is why is the slider so big? Also, it was packed with the nose rolled and stuffed in, is there a possibility of any problems packing that way? Actually, I must say, my openings were quick, smooth, soft and on heading. I'm having a little trouble getting use to the dive angle and flare timing. But I have next weekend to work more on that. It's just different from what I'm use to. All in all I enjoyed flying it very much and since I want to learn CReW, I think it may very well be a good canopy for a novice to learn on!"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #59 August 11, 2008 QuoteI'm having a little trouble getting use to the dive angle and flare timing. I know what you mean. The thing that peopple need to keep in mind when flying/demoing this canopy is that it is quite different from what they expect. First off, the recovery arch is VERY quick as it has a very flat glide which is fantastic if you're ever long. However, it does make setting up and turning onto final a bit challenging until you figure out the characteristics of the canopy. Second, the flare point is very deep or I should say deeper than most people are acustomed to. A majority of skydivers are in the habit of not following through with their flare all the way and it affects the way they land or in realistic terms,crash on landing. On the Storm the point where the canopy planes out to level flight is right around the 50% point or nipple level of the flare. To come to a complete stop the flare must be followed through all the way to full arms extension. The Storm has a tremendous amount of bottom end flare, if you know how to flare the canopy correctly. People may erroroneously think that it has no bottom end because they are expecting the canopy and their momentum to come to a stop when the canopy is actually in a plane out. Once people learn to finish their flare deeper than they are used to they will find that the Storm is capable of popping them back up in the air. The Storm is also very stable in deep brakes which means it can be sunk in, much like an accuracy canopy if the jumper chooses to do so. If you check out the PD blog, there are pictures of the Storm on landing and in deep brakes to give you an idea of how deep the flare point is. Pictures of the Storm in flight and on landing can be seen Here, Here , and Here"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyhawke 0 #60 August 11, 2008 Thank you. I want to see that!"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #61 August 12, 2008 Quoteit has a very flat glide which is fantastic if you're ever long. A very flat glide compared to what canopy, Lou? Or do I misunderstand the term? Because compared to what I'm used to, in full flight the Storm descends rather quickly compared to the Spectre, reminding me more of the original Sabre. (all of which I jump(ed) at 190sq. ft.). NB. I'm not comparing the flight charactyeristics of 7 and 9 cells, merely the descent rate at equal size and loading."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #62 August 12, 2008 They definitely descend faster than Lightnings - below is a post someone wrote on the CRW list about what they found: ---- wing loading vs decent rate (from Neptune) for Storm vs Lightning Canopy Size WL Decent rate Lightning - 143 - 1.34 - 19-22 ft/sec Lightning in formations 22-26 ft/sec Storm - 135 - 1.43 - 26-32 ft/sec Storm - 150 - 1.28 - 22-26 ft/sec Based on this, loading the Storm at 1.4 or greater will give significantly less working time in the air because of it's higher decent rate (and even higher in formations - probably 32-36 ft/sec, 10 ft/sec greater than the Lightning). I suggest that we load them 1.25 - 1.3 or so for CRW (and maybe still put links in the front). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #63 August 12, 2008 I got a Storm (190) to replace my Sabre2 (210). I use it for wingsuiting pretty much exclusively. I've put four jumps on it. I really like the way it opens and handles turns, but the flare point is much lower than what I was used to. I have a lot of excess brake line, so I may have my rigger take it up an inch or two, but even with that, the flare point will be lower than on a Sabre2. That's not a criticism - it's just different, and it's something I'll no doubt get used to. Over all: strong recommend.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #64 August 12, 2008 QuoteA very flat glide compared to what canopy, Lou? I wasn't thinking of any specific canopy but rather speaking in general. People who have flown a Stilleto before are familiar with a quick recovery arch and the fairly flat glide of that canopy. The Storm has similar characteristics albeit in a 7 cell canopy. I wouldn't try to compare the Storm to any one specific canopy as I think it really is a unique canopy that has several favorable characteristics of several other canopies. Wendy, I think your evaluation of the Lightning and the Storm is a bit skewed. You are comparing 3 different sized canopies yet the averages are actually quite close considering the difference in size and WL. The Storm you referenced in your example at a higher WL could easily be flown in brakes to match those other canopies no problem IMO."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #65 August 12, 2008 >Based on this, loading the Storm at 1.4 or greater will >give significantly less working time in the air . . . Agreed. Recently I did some formation landing (not CRW) jumps with the CRW folks out in Cal City. They had Lightning 143's and 160's and I had a Storm 170 (actually an XC170) and I had a little trouble staying up with them. Rusty warned me that they sank a little faster than, say, a Spectre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #66 August 13, 2008 I haven't actually jumped a Storm - that was someone else's measurements. But that is the standard thought in the CRW community - that they're not compatible (at least at similar wing-loadings) with Lightnings because they sink so much faster. Everyone in the CRW community who has jumped seems to have excellent things to say about them - but its universally agreed that they're not compatible with Lightnings because of their sink rate. That's why people view them as an excellent competition canopy, but not a good big-way canopy because you would have less working-time on a big-way formation. They've been getting lots of jumps and been doing formations with Storms at various CRW boogies and camps - the Storm is really popular with the jumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #67 August 13, 2008 QuoteI haven't actually jumped a Storm - that was someone else's measurements. But that is the standard thought in the CRW community - that they're not compatible (at least at similar wing-loadings) with Lightnings because they sink so much faster. I think it might be interesting to see how a larger Storm compares to a smaller Lightning if we play around a little with WL. I'm not talking big formations, but CReW pups getting their first coaching jumps. The reason I'm saying this is because WL is limited to max. 1.3 and canopy size to min. 150 for newer jumpers (100-400 jumps) in the Netherlands, while 100 jumps is the lowest number allowed for both Storm and Lightning. (OTOH one can jump a Triathlon at 25 jumps, provided it's loaded at or under 1.1 and at least 160 sq ft.)"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #68 August 13, 2008 I have one of the very few Storm 120s right now for a while. We've been loading it pretty heavily here at Byron between 1.8 and 2.2 to 1 and it's proving to be an awesome performer. I have over 7000 jumps on Stilettos, and I've been particularly impressed with it's responsiveness and flare power. As a previous poster stated, you have to finish your flare with Storm, but if you do, you're rewarded with very nice controlled swoops that can rival any elliptical. When heavily loaded, front riser pressure and response is positive and even, an the canopy recovers instantly upon input. Turns roll out nicely without the tendency of oversteer of most 9 cell ellipticals. The commencement of a turn is flatter and slower than the Stiletto, but once it's developed, it's rotation speed is similar. I handed it off to a Velcocity jumper to get comparisons, and the feedback was very positive after busting out some 270 and 360 approaches at over a 2 to 1 loading. Openings are very controlled and there's no real tendency to hunt to either side. The consistency of the openings are one of the things that is most impressive about the Storm. There seems to be some confusion about the market the Storm is aimed at. There are three types of Storm. There's the free fall Storm, which I have been jumping, the CRW Storm variant, and a hybrid CRW/RW Storm. I'd say get on the list for a demo. It's a very impressive canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #69 August 13, 2008 Already bought one - I'm jumping the demo until my own arrives. I was commenting on Wendy's observation that the Sotrm does not seem to be compatible to the lightning; *at equal WL* the Storm seems to descend faster. So I wondered what would happen to descent rates if one were to compare a Storm at a slightly *lower* WL vs a Lightning at typical CRW loading. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #70 August 26, 2008 This has been an interesting thread ! anymore STORM stories out there ? smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #71 August 26, 2008 I had the opportunity to demo a Storm 150 this past weekend (thanks Kim). Only did 2 jumps with it, Ill explain why ... I was at a boogie flying wingsuits at an unfamiliar DZ with very few outs. My demo was a 0 jump canopy, I can tell because the line attachments were still loose. The brake lines were way too long, I had to pull down to my ears (more than 1 foot) for the tail to deflect a little. On top of that, it had a slight built in turn to the left. To keep it flying straight, I had to pull down on the right toggle all the way to my shoulder, leaving me with very little and uneven flare on landing time. I think its not wise to fly a canopy like that, when the chances of landing out are greater because of the wingsuit, and you have very small and few and appart outs. And its not fun to pack a 0 jump canopy at a boogie were you wanna do a lot of jumps So this morning I sent it back I have 400+ jumps on a 7cell the same size (150), so Im gona compare the little I can. The 2 openings were wonderful, quick, soft and onheading. It had a lot more glide and the front riser preassure was a lot harder than with my other 7cell. Sorry I cant say nothing about the stall point, or flares, or deep brake flying, or the landings because of what I already stated. I want to demo it again on another occasion....I could fell the potential on those 2 jumps. PS. I think maybe the built in turn was because the lines were not completly set (loose attch points), but I didnt feel like dealing with that issue at that moment under that circunstances. HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #72 August 26, 2008 This is from PD’s web site on the Storm. Sparky A note about control line length: The Storm was designed with a bit of slack in the control lines for several reasons, some of which are explained in this document. We recommend keeping the control lines at their original length. Some jumpers have shortened their control lines by changing the point where the toggles are attached because they felt the slack in the control lines was excessive. If you believe your control lines are too long, we suggest you read an article on our web site titled “Getting the Best Performance From Your Canopy,” which can be found on the PD website in the informational articles. If you have read the article on “Getting the Best Performance From Your Canopy” and still want to shorten your control lines, you should only shorten them by an inch or two (2 – 5 cm). Then jump the canopy a few times to see how it performs. There should always be some slack in the control lines when the brakes are released to allow the canopy to perform the way it was designed. Keep in mind that you may need to lengthen the steering lines again after a certain number of jumps to keep them at the correct length. Also, remember that modifications like this should be performed by or under the supervision of a qualified rigger.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #73 August 27, 2008 I did 3 jumps on Gareth's Storm-120 (Thanks again, Gareth). I think the first time I jumped a 7-cell in since jump 58 (only 11 total 7-cell jumps). I tend to agree with all the comments so far. I definitely enjoyed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyhawke 0 #74 August 27, 2008 Quote This has been an interesting thread ! anymore STORM stories out there ? Yes! At first I was intimidated by the glide angle and couldn't get my flare timing down, but as I've jumped it more I'm getting use to both and standing up my landings! YEAH ME! It's a zippy canopy and a lot of fun to fly. Plus I got to demo a very pretty navy one and it looks very cool up in the sky. "It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #75 August 28, 2008 What do you mean by being intimidated by the glide angle? Too steep, to shallow or something else entirely?"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
