A.I.R. Prices - Riggers Only Please

[Unstable 8]

I am starting this thread new for a variety of reasons. I am asking Riggers only to post here, because if more than one person posts for an in behalf of the same rigger, then we will be compounding data and our results will be distored.

Also - how do you think the increase in gas prices has effected your prices as a rigger?

Let's make a few assumptions for this little survey...

- Those who poll will be Master/Senior Riggers with at least a Back-type rating.

- A.I.R. is a back type, duel canopy system used for intentional jumping.

- This does not include the price for a Main canopy Inspect/packing.

- Current Prices

- Rig is given to pack without a pressing deadline (AKA RIGGER DAVE, I NEED THIS REPACKED IN 2 HOURS)

- Non-commercial rigs only.

This will be interesting. I have other groups of Data I've collected here and there - If I get at least 40 polls, I put it with the other numbers and see if anything interesting turns up. I'll post it.

Thanks everybody!

=========Shaun ==========

[Miami 0]

Depends on the rig...I generally charge $45 for most rigs, but for racers I charge $35 since they are so much easier. Seriously.

Gas prices have had no effect on the price I charge.

Miami

[mark 102]

Here in the Twin Cities area, an experienced carpenter gets $60/hour. Shop rates at the local car dealers are in the $80-$100/hour range.

Parachute packers ("working under the supervision of ...") can make about $40-60/hour.

Good. Fast. Cheap. Pick two.

How much of my time would you like to buy?

Mark

[BIGUN 1,065]

Not a Rigger, so no vote. Here's my question which may result in another interesting poll thread.

If the repack cycle changes to 180 days; will Riggers increase their reserve repack pricing? If so, how much?
1. Enough to cover the one "lost revenue" opportunity per annum?
2. Considering they are now "signing" for 180 days vs. 120.
3, Market Saturation/Opportunity Costs
4. Other variables.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[tdog 0]

your poll goes 40-50, 50-60...

Often riggers charge 40, 50, or 60...

So there is no way for them to answer correctly because those dollar values have two options.

Since the poll should have been 40-49, 50-59... I recommend people vote the HIGHEST option, meaning if they charge 50, they vote the 50-60 option.... That way it is consistent.

[tdog 0]

BTW. I have used three riggers in the state - in order from most expensive to least. Look at their overhead:

1) One who rented his own very large warehouse for a loft with many machines, and enough room to pack two pilot rigs on two 50 foot tables with enough floor space for another two sport squares, all while 10 people could be operating the machines around the perimeter. Materials and supplies to fix/make anything. Highest ratings, examiner able to test new riggers for their ratings.

2) One who worked for the DZ, and the DZ kept a cut, with access to limited sewing equipment and enough floor space for one rig. Limited materials and repair capacity.

3) One who works out of his basement with limited equipment but is very good at the bread and butter repack.

All three have done real nice pack jobs. The cheapest guy does the best packjobs, but the most expensive guy did the most touch up work (replacing some stitching on the closing flap) and provided a few closing loops and pull up cords, etc. He also let me use his bartack machine to make a few new lines for my main.

The cheapest gets to keep almost 100% in his pocket, The DZ guy has to share a cut with the DZ but the DZ does all the billing and advertisement, and the most expensive guy has to pay rent for the warehouse and the cost of 10+ machines, plus run the business.

I laugh because they all charge about the same amount, plus or minus $15, but the guy who works out of his basement probably keeps the most take home pay.

There is another freelancer that I don't use - because he charges the same as the most expensive rigger, but uses any found space he can to pack. If I am going to pay top dollar, I want to use a guy who invests it back into equipment and is a full service loft.

[riggerrob 558]

Pacific Skydivers charges Canadian $60 per reserve repack ... which is worth US$48 or $50.

(This is not as good as it sounds, because Canadian skydivers earn CANADIAN DOLLARS, so they end up paying about the same - out of pocket - as American skydivers. As for my few American customers ... it costs them more than US$20 in gasoline to reach my loft. Hee! Hee!)

The rate has not risen in years and I believe that we are under-charging.
Shop rate is C$50 per hour for an FAA Master Rigger/Canadian Rigger Instructor/German Prufur/some one good enough to pack for retired Presidents.

[riggerrob 558]

If the repack cycle changes to 180 days ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In 2000, Barry McAuley (the chair of CSPA's Technical Committee) asked me my opion of extending the reserve repack cycle to 180 days.
I replied: "I'll make more money on repairs."

Note: Canada changed to a 180 day repack cycle in 2000 or 2001 (my memory is fuzzy).
We have not seen a significant increase in accidents, but 4 years is a short sample period.
Also remember that most Canadian DZs only operate for 5 or 6 months out of the year, so the change - in repack cycle - was a pragmatic admission that the best we could hope for was for Canadian skydivers to get their gear inspected once a year.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

I charge $50 US for an A.I.R... caveat, for folks who's kits begin with the name "R", I refer them to other riggers who will pack those things as I'd rather not... ... and I don't nickel and dime folks for stuff like "new Cypress loop", "new main loop", "Installation of Cypress Batteries", "Re-Instl Cypress after 4 (or 8) Year Check", etc.


Changes in gas prices have not changed what I charge for a reserve repack.


As for this "gotta have it in 2 hours" bent to your survey...

Since I don't rig for a living, whether or not I'd take on a quick turn job like that or not is a luxury I enjoy. Factors, to me, whether I would or wouldn't would be things like... would I rather pack a reserve or skydive myself?... would I rather pack a reserve right now or drink beer?... would I rather pack a reserve or is there some place / something other I'd rather be doing right now?... is the person asking me a good buddy of mine that's in a jam and needs some help?... is the person asking me a hot chick?... etc. I probably wouldn't charge extra for a short turn job, but I'm not saying I wouldn't either... it all "depends".

[linestretch 0]

I charge 45, double that if they want a pencil.

my pics & stuff!

[skybeergodd 0]

I charge $50 for the basic re-pack I.E. cable cleaning, new closing loop.
I do charge more for pilot rigs and for rush pack jobs.

[Unstable 8]

Quote

your poll goes 40-50, 50-60...

Often riggers charge 40, 50, or 60...

So there is no way for them to answer correctly because those dollar values have two options.

Since the poll should have been 40-49, 50-59... I recommend people vote the HIGHEST option, meaning if they charge 50, they vote the 50-60 option.... That way it is consistent.

My bad. Oups. Agreed - if you haven't already voted - let's do it HIGHEST option.

=========Shaun ==========

[Spizzzarko 0]

I really don't rig much for other people than myself, but my prices vary greatly. It just depends on how good of a friend you are and what my mood is. I have done AIR's for free, and have charged up to $60 in Colorado. If you need it by a certain time and there is no apparant reason as to why you need it unless you just want to sky jump this weekend and you give me the rig on Friday night I will usually turn you down or charge you out the ass. I have had people willing to pay. I have also had people stiff me on the save bottle too. That makes me angry! Then I no longer rig for them.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Quote

I do charge more for pilot rigs...

Just currious... why do you charge more for pilot rigs? Personally, I always found flaking a round (which is usually what's in a pilot rig) easier... although, the closing of pilot rigs tends to differ from band to brand more so then with most sport rigs; is that why, maybe?

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

I usually charge $50 and that includes a new main and a new reserve closing loop. If a customer wants the rig done in two hours, I usually charge more due to the inconvenience.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[skybeergodd 0]

Pilot rigs unless they are used at a DZ are almost never kept in date...most are packed once every two years or so. So I replace all the rubberbands, they all get acid and pull tested(and yes I am aware that newer rounds do not need the acid test) so for the extra up keep I charge $10 more.

[jdthomas 0]

Shaun
I used to be the cheapest rigger in the area and maybe I still am.
If I charged you at all it was usally a deli sandwich or some lunch meal on a busy DZ day.
i found that when I was busy making money doing tandems i would call out to a person that owed me for a repack to run to town and get me a turkey on wheat, chips and drink and that was worth any 50$ I could have ever charged for the repack.
I personally avoid rigging for the masses and if I get one that is needed right away then it's 50$. that comes with new cypress loops, custom color main closing loop and all the extras.
but knowing where you live i would say charge what you want because you will be the only rigger in your area!
Joe

www.greenboxphotography.com

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Quote

...they all get acid...(and yes I am aware that newer rounds do not need the acid test) so for the extra up keep...

Then why do it?

If someone bought you a sport rig that hadn't been packed in a year... say because it was sitting in a jumper's closet for a year, but now they want to get current... would you charge them an extra $10?

[Gene03 0]

My service is as follows;
I/R 55.00 USD
Repairs 60.00/hr
Repack and inspection includes; ripcord pull test on expired repack, replace Cypres and main closing loops, remove and inspect Cypres and replace properly, full reserve canopy inspection, line trim check the first time I see the reserve or after use, inspect harness and container, ripcord pull test on repacked reserve and noted on card along with number of tools checked in and out for the job.
A quote and approval on repairs before proceeding. Any refusals get their unpacked rig back in a plastic bag.
I don't do "rush jobs" my customers lives and my reputation deserve my full attention and are worth more than money to me.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[councilman24 36]

There is one pilot rig that I charge 50% more, and so does the factory. That's a Softie with a Preserve V in it. It is much more complicated and takes about 50% longer (Even when you know what your doing). See manual at
http://www.freeflightent.com/PV_Pack_Inst_V.pdf for a peak.

I've started charging an extra $5 for pilot rigs I haven't seen before just because they usually have a whole lot of stuff that has been neglected.

I almost never rig outside my basement loft with all my tools and machines. But, in 2005 I had one of my war bird pilots want to fly me down to a museum he flys for about 100 miles away to pack their rigs. I told him I didn't know what I'd be getting into and needed to have all my supplies, tools and references available. In 2006 he suggested flying me down again and I didn't have a good excuse. So one day we jumped in his T6 and flew down for the day. Pretty good day.
Most riggers at PIA business meetings have said they wouldn't charge more with a 180 day cycle. I'm sure it will be a topic of casual conversation in February at the symposium.

Terry Urban
PIA Rigging Committee Chairman

[Unstable 8]

Quote

There is one pilot rig that I charge 50% more, and so does the factory. That's a Softie with a Preserve V in it. It is much more complicated and takes about 50% longer (Even when you know what your doing). See manual at http://www.freeflightent.com/PV_Pack_Inst_V.pdf for a peak.

Yuck - I read those instructions over two times, and I still need to sit down with a rig to put the pieces together in my head - that seems to have a lot of steps that have been simplified in almost every type of pilot rig I've seen or worked with ....

=========Shaun ==========

[riggerrob 558]

I only do pH and tensile tests on round canopies specifically mentioned during the acid- mesh recall (National, Pioneer, Security, etc.).
Now they are so old (20 years plus) I am starting to refuse to repack them.
My logic includes the notion that 20 years of tensile tests have weakened the fabric.

I do not perform tensile or pH tests on canopies made by FFE or Strong because those manufacturers were wise enough to only use MIL SPEC mesh.

Also remember that GQ Security says not to pack any of their gear more than 13 years old.
GQ Security closed their North American factory in 1984.
You do the math.

Otherwise, I only test canopies that look weak. Faded, frayed and filthy military-surplus canopies tend to fail tensile tests and customers cannot argue with hard numbers.

[Gene03 0]

Quote

I only do pH and tensile tests on round canopies specifically mentioned during the acid- mesh recall (National, Pioneer, Security, etc.).
Now they are so old (20 years plus) I am starting to refuse to repack them.
My logic includes the notion that 20 years of tensile tests have weakened the fabric.

I do not perform tensile or pH tests on canopies made by FFE or Strong because those manufacturers were wise enough to only use MIL SPEC mesh.

Also remember that GQ Security says not to pack any of their gear more than 13 years old.
GQ Security closed their North American factory in 1984.
You do the math.

Otherwise, I only test canopies that look weak. Faded, frayed and filthy military-surplus canopies tend to fail tensile tests and customers cannot argue with hard numbers.

Do you have a copy of the manual?
Can you post it for us please?

IMO all emergency canopies have a built in life expectancy. It's 120 days.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[aironscott 3]

My charges kind of depend on the maket that I'm working in. When the market rate is $50 then that's what I charge. If the market rate is $35, well then I charge $45, but that's cuz even at $50 I feel that I'm underpaid.
I have no problem with proficient riggers charging what they think that our service is worth.
That being said, most rigs that I get that have been packed by the "local rigger" or "Marana" need some SB or sewing or safety stow or whatever. I charge for those things. The price list that I stick to is alwayse with me at the dz so people know what they are getting charged for.
When people use the discount rigger down the street I get a kick out of when they ask me to tighten up their pilot chute or -fill in the blank here-.
I have at least $10,000 invested in sewing machines not to mention all of $$ in the materials that I keep on hand so that I can provide service to people that come to me in need of rigging. Those extra $5, $10, $30 charges go to offsetting my cash outlays in the tools that are needed to accomplish my trade.
And like was said earlier in this thread, I too do a fair amount of work where the price is a 6-pack or lunch or pics from my favorite camera guy for my "I love me" wall. The barter system works some times amongst friends.

See some of you in Reno

Aaron

“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”

[councilman24 36]

I have a copy of the manual in PDF. Send me your name and email and I'll be glad to send it to you.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE