riddler 0 #1 February 17, 2008 I occasionally hear people talk about humans discovering fire. To me, the math doesn't add up. Please note the following discussion involves evolutionary theory, so those with strong creationist views may disagree. So, human beings can be considered part of the species Homo Sapiens, part of the family of Hominidea. Hominids are the general family for Great Apes (humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, etc). The species Homo Sapiens (humans) has been around for 150,000 - 200,000 years, according to biologists. But controlled use of fire has been around for about 1 to 2 million years. To me, that means it was another species of Hominid (now extinct), that discovered fire about one million years before humans. Perhaps Homo Erectus or another species long dead. But Homo Erectus was not Homo Sapiens (i.e. not human). However, I see articles that say things like "earliest use of human fire, 800,000 years ago". Still the math doesn't add up. And I hear about the Cradle of Humankind. Now the waters get muddy. We are Homo Sapiens, starting at most 200,000 years ago. Everything before that was another species. If "humans" discovered fire, then what we are calling humans includes all other great apes. So, did humans discover fire or not? Do you consider all hominids humans? To be honest, I don't have any formal study of biology, so maybe someone that does can help me understand.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #2 February 17, 2008 AirTwardo invented it. And we are going to be in a world of hurt when he starts enforcing his patent. "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #3 February 17, 2008 Yes, Homo erectus had fire. If you want to call them humans, well, whatever. I guess it would be like referring to a wolf as a dog. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #4 February 17, 2008 false mother nature discovered fire...it's in volcanos and can be a by product of lightning... it has been scorching our planet since ... forever. it's always been tough to control but Humans, and pre humans may have learned to do just that. Controlled use of fire is different from "making fire", and i always thought that Peking Man is credited with making fire...... That however was only once hominids had progressed, not only in populating the planet, and speading out from Africa, but also in cranial capacity and in some early organinzation skills, such as collective communities... mosty hominids are social animals. It may have taken many many generations of migration, and diffusion across the face of the globe and as Man became able to make fire, by then populations had reached modern Day China... Leaky's work and discoveries in Olduvai Gorge were of fossils, deemed to be "pre -humans" from 2 million years ago... They were Bipedal, had a skull which sat on Top of the backbone and had great use of the arms and hands,,,so there no reason that they couldn't have scavenged a burning ember, log, branch etc... I'm guessing that wildfires, caused by lightning might have been a common thing, and as fire passed, and faded away, it sure seems likely that some of it would be "gathered" or collected,,, and then fueled and monitored, so as to provide light and as a by product, heat... If the fire died,,, the groups would be faced with waiting for another collection opportunity... a million years passes slowly... but humans and pre humans do have the abiity to share ideas, behaviors and to track as a group,, what works, and what doesn't work...Not sure if those pre humans from 2 million years ago used fire... I don't think that the current great apes use fire either..... Great apes are Not humans Humans are Homo Sapiens Sapien..... It seems lilkey that some control of fire has to become a standard, in any successful group of humans or pre humans. I expect that there is evidence of fire pits in many an archeological digs, only not sure how far back they go... Being able to Make fire,,, either by friction, or flint knapping came later.....and is a whole HUGE step forward... It may have been discovered by accident... and as a result of interacting with the environment... maybe a piece of wood was being "worked" to create a bowl or vessel, and in the course of repeated scraping and rubbing,, the worker noticed heat.....or a bow and string was used to create a drill effect, wooden stick to wooden base... Or as time progressed and stone spear and arrow heads were being perfected, a worker chipping away at cooperative stone blade may have been blessed with a spark..... literally,, a spark which may have even burned the worker. So then the process to re create the event would begin, and once they figured out that different materials have a better or worse, "spark capability" and zeroed in on the ones that worked...then it was simply a matter of connecting the dots, having proper tinder on hand, a little puff of Oxygen,,, and Viola'!!! fire... interesting topic. thanks for all the links. jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #5 February 17, 2008 Quote AirTwardo invented it. And we are going to be in a world of hurt when he starts enforcing his patent. Yeah...we noticed that when people got hit by a bolt of lightning, they tasted better. The whole baked potato in a camp fire thing came from how yummy a volcano roasted virgin was. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #6 February 17, 2008 True. Humans did discover fire. So did every other species that could understand what fire is. "Discovering" means to find something that was previously unknown to you or your species - therefore for fire to be known to humans, a human had to be the first witness to it. Same way that Columbus discovered the American continents - there were animals and indigenous people here before - but to European culture, he "discovered" it because it was previously unknown to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #7 February 17, 2008 discovered is the wrong term, pre spaiens found uses for fire, and learned to partially control fire, they didnt discover it.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #8 February 18, 2008 Bunch of lawyers on this site First, I have electric stoves expressly so that I owe no royalties to Twardo. Next, if anyone accuses me of creating or using it, I would say the burden of proof is on them. So unless Twardo can resurrect Johnny Cochran, I'm pretty sure I'll get off. Second, I guess "discover" should be replaced with "first to create and control", so the real question is, are humans the first to create and control fire? I think people say this is true because our egos don't want to believe that we aren't the only creatures on the planet that can control our environment to a high degree. Personally, I would go so far as to say humans were not the first to create and control fire. The truth is that most humans today are incapable of creating fire (without lighter fluid and matches), so I don't think it's a huge blow to our collective egos to say we aren't the only ones. But we sure do like to take credit for others' work Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #9 February 18, 2008 Are you reading raw food sights again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #10 February 18, 2008 The truth is that most humans today are incapable of creating fire (without lighter fluid and matches) Quote As any survivalist knows, all you have to do is rub two boy-scouts together! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #11 February 18, 2008 Quote Are you reading raw food sights again? or sitesYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #12 February 18, 2008 Quote Bunch of lawyers on this site First, I have electric stoves expressly so that I owe no royalties to Twardo. Next, if anyone accuses me of creating or using it, I would say the burden of proof is on them. So unless Twardo can resurrect Johnny Cochran, I'm pretty sure I'll get off. "If the flames be lit, you must convict!""There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #13 February 18, 2008 I believe this delightful movie answers your question nicely. Quest for Fire ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
someday 0 #14 February 18, 2008 fire discovered human Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #15 February 18, 2008 Quote Quote Are you reading raw food sights again? or sites Look who is correcting my grammar. Mr grammar man himself. plbbbbbt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #16 February 18, 2008 Quote As any survivalist knows, all you have to do is rub two boy-scouts together! Maybe the "survivalists" in Deliverance. I'm all for rubbing two girl scouts together, myself Quote Are you reading raw food sights again? I've heard vegetarians suggest that people that eat meat should kill their own animals. Maybe raw foodists should say anyone that eats cooked food should have to make a fire using only two sticks Quote Quest for Fire Saw it as a teenager. Fond memories Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #17 February 18, 2008 QuoteAirTwardo invented it. I thought it was his grandsonYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #18 February 18, 2008 Quote I believe this delightful movie answers your question nicely. Quest for Fire ltdiver i REALLY liked this film and saw it when it was first released..... Only negative comment .... and I mean this seriously. It should have had sub titles... so that the viewer could understand what the characters were THINKING..... Good costumes Good Concept Rae Dawn Chong ...... and then Geico went and "ripped Off" the the idea.........jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeG 0 #19 February 18, 2008 Humans invented SKYDIVING That's all I really care about Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #20 February 18, 2008 Just follow your own links! The first line of your explanation gives a link to wikipedia's article on Humans. The first line of that article says: "This article is about modern humans. For other human species, see Homo (genus). For other uses, see Human (disambiguation)." Hit the disambiguation button and wikipedia tells you: "Human may refer to any member of the Homo genus (since ca. 2.5 million years). If you follow your own links, you've already answered your own question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #21 February 18, 2008 Q: Did Humans discover fire? A: No, God did. BUT - Who invented God? Humans did of course! I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #22 February 18, 2008 Quote Humans invented SKYDIVING That's all I really care about Actually....Lemmings did. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #23 February 18, 2008 Quote The truth is that most humans today are incapable of creating fire (without lighter fluid and matches) Quote As any survivalist knows, all you have to do is rub two boy-scouts together! Wait - I thought that they reinstated the ruling about the scout masters.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #24 February 18, 2008 QuotePerhaps Homo Erectus Fire was discovered by a homo with an erection. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #25 February 18, 2008 QuoteQuotePerhaps Homo Erectus Fire was discovered by a homo with an erection. Like I said - a scout master.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
