airtwardo 6 #26 June 1, 2009 Quote I almost hate to say it, because I'm all for technology, but what I think we have here is the first true "fly by wire" tragedy. NickD ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #27 June 2, 2009 >I almost hate to say it, because I'm all for technology, but what I think we >have here is the first true "fly by wire" tragedy. >but in the end I want steel cables between my hands and feet to the aerilons and >rudders - not just electrons thank you! Most commercial airliners nowadays do not have any such cables. 747's have hydraulics only. You have to go back to 737's to get actual cables that will move the surfaces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #28 June 2, 2009 Maybe it's just because I was on a transatlantic flight myself three hours ago (!) while Air France was going down. And no, you don't have to sing hymns, praise humanity, and such. BUT MAYBE, JUST MAYBE show a little bit of human decency and compassion!!! Is that too much to ask? What if it were you baby daughter, your mother, your brother, your wife? Quote Quote +1 I am constantly surprised and appalled by the level to which people can sink on a public forum. Quote 1) I can not believe how glib some of you heartless bastards are. Hundreds of people just died. Grow up. 2) I doubt this is electrical or engine related. My guess is we're looking at an in-flight breakup. Oh give me a freakin' break! What, we're all supposed to be 'Oh the humanity' and sing 'We will overcome' in unison? We lost over twice that many people on U.S. highways over the Memorial day weekend, where was the outrage and the sympathy threads over THAT? We on this 'public forum' jump out of airplanes, banter about sex, drugs and An-2's all day ~ and you're appalled? Suck it up cupcake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #29 June 2, 2009 The first "fly-by-wire" tragedy was a a broken line on a parachute. Take your pick! Quote I almost hate to say it, because I'm all for technology, but what I think we have here is the first true "fly by wire" tragedy. We've all seen this Airbus crash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCwYAzqvcrQ which really didn't have anything to do with the aircraft, just daft pilots, but in the end I want steel cables between my hands and feet to the aerilons and rudders - not just electrons thank you! Especially in a thunderstorm . . . NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #30 June 2, 2009 QuoteI almost hate to say it, because I'm all for technology, but what I think we have here is the first true "fly by wire" tragedy. I'm not an expert, but I doubt it. Most fly-by-wire systems are triple or quadruple independent redundant systems. I used to work at a corporation that manufactured military jets, and anytime someone mentioned fly-by-wire, it was preceded or anteceded by "x-redundant". The first thing people would question with the systems was "what happens in signal-loss?", and I guess the insiders got so tired of it, they started mentioning redundancy at the same time as they mentioned fly-by-wire. Lightening could take out three or four-redundant systems, but I'm inclined to believe that something else happened.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #31 June 2, 2009 Quote Maybe it's just because I was on a transatlantic flight myself three hours ago (!) while Air France was going down. And no, you don't have to sing hymns, praise humanity, and such. BUT MAYBE, JUST MAYBE show a little bit of human decency and compassion!!! Is that too much to ask? What if it were you baby daughter, your mother, your brother, your wife? Um...my wife is a 767 Capt. who at the moment is flyin' a crowd killer across the pond to land at CDG in about 6 hours, that's the Paris airport that was closed down because of the bomb scare today. My panties don't get in a twist every time an airliner goes down any more than hers do when skydiver bounces. Sorry it happened, sorry it bothers you so much, it's happened before and will happen again...don't dwell and get some perspective. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #32 June 2, 2009 MY panties don't get in a twist either. But it's great to hear that you have a strong wife to lean on ! Good for you ! Eventually you will have to learn to rely on yourself and your own moral judgments, and not that of your 767 Captain. QuoteQuote Maybe it's just because I was on a transatlantic flight myself three hours ago (!) while Air France was going down. And no, you don't have to sing hymns, praise humanity, and such. BUT MAYBE, JUST MAYBE show a little bit of human decency and compassion!!! Is that too much to ask? What if it were you baby daughter, your mother, your brother, your wife? Um...my wife is a 767 Capt. who at the moment is flyin' a crowd killer across the pond to land at CDG in about 6 hours, that's the Paris airport that was closed down because of the bomb scare today. My panties don't get in a twist every time an airliner goes down any more than hers do when skydiver bounces. Sorry it happened, sorry it bothers you so much, it's happened before and will happen again...don't dwell and get some perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #33 June 2, 2009 Quote Eventually you will have to learn to rely on yourself and your own moral judgments, Yeah...puberty is right around the corner! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #34 June 2, 2009 Quote I figured if it was down they'd get the ELP signal. Such was not reported. It's ELT signal. emergency locator transponder. I don't think the big planes are required to have one, and they don't work from underwater. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #35 June 2, 2009 I believe the A-320's had a back up mechanical throttle and rudder system that you could somewhat control the airplane with no electrons doing their thing in the black boxes. Don't know if the jumbo heavies have anything like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
porpoishead 5 #36 June 2, 2009 for fuck sake already......we just want you to cry T can you just muster up some tears so we can get past this if you want a friend feed any animal Perry Farrell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #37 June 2, 2009 Quote for fuck sake already......we just want you to cry T can you just muster up some tears so we can get past this In the interest of not having my 'moral judgements' further berated, I'm choppin' an onion so I can give a quick squirt. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 June 2, 2009 >I believe the A-320's had a back up mechanical throttle and rudder system >that you could somewhat control the airplane with no electrons doing their thing in >the black boxes. Sort of. I think there is a manual trim-tab drive on elevator and rudder, but even that needs hydraulic power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #39 June 2, 2009 Quote Quote I for one became a bit skeptical running twins over the pond WAY back when, especially heavies. So you tried to talk that Lindbergh kid out of trying it with just one? Well, an advantage of a single engined aircraft is that the emergency procedures are simplified immensely vs. that for a twin or multi-engined aircraft if the one and only "spiny thing" stops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #40 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteI almost hate to say it, because I'm all for technology, but what I think we have here is the first true "fly by wire" tragedy. I'm not an expert, but I doubt it. Most fly-by-wire systems are triple or quadruple independent redundant systems. I used to work at a corporation that manufactured military jets, and anytime someone mentioned fly-by-wire, it was preceded or anteceded by "x-redundant". The first thing people would question with the systems was "what happens in signal-loss?", and I guess the insiders got so tired of it, they started mentioning redundancy at the same time as they mentioned fly-by-wire. Lightening could take out three or four-redundant systems, but I'm inclined to believe that something else happened. Remember United Airlines Flight 232 to Sioux City? One disintegrated fan disk took out all three hydraulic systems. Not impossible that some kind of electrical event might take out redundant electrical systems. When I was at a defense contractor, I was startled to see 4 redundant roll-sensing gyros tucked together on a bulkhead. They were for the fly-by-wire system."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #41 June 2, 2009 Do ass you please; you sure will do your Anglo-Saxon brothers proud. End-of-story. Make sure to listen to your 767 wife; she knows more than you do! Quote Quote for fuck sake already......we just want you to cry T can you just muster up some tears so we can get past this In the interest of not having my 'moral judgements' further berated, I'm choppin' an onion so I can give a quick squirt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #42 June 2, 2009 >Not impossible that some kind of electrical event might take out redundant >electrical systems. In the A320, a bigger risk is the hydraulic systems. Take out all hydraulics and there is no control of any flight surface. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #43 June 2, 2009 Quote In the interest of not having my 'moral judgements' further berated, I'm choppin' an onion so I can give a quick squirt. I knew it!'Twardo does the cooking in that house!"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #44 June 2, 2009 Quote Quote In the interest of not having my 'moral judgements' further berated, I'm choppin' an onion so I can give a quick squirt. I knew it!'Twardo does the cooking in that house! I HAVE TO TONIGHT! Mom's flyin' to Paris! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #45 June 2, 2009 Quote I think there is a manual trim-tab drive on elevator and rudder, but even that needs hydraulic power. Throw out the RAT.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #46 June 2, 2009 Just got word today that our own Catherine Enselme (of Paris, France), who is a flight attendant on Air France long range flights was -not- on this flight. I'm sure several of her friends (co-workers) were, though. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #47 June 2, 2009 Quote "Flight - try SCE to AUX." Apollo 12 lightning strike... the rookie alan bean ended up knowing that sequence when the old timers didn't. I like your space nut thinking... On a less lighter note... I was forecasting last night at work, and I had two flights that were routed in the same area as this airbus. (my forecasting is for corporate jets... much smaller, but still not immune to same weather effects the airbus might have experienced) I checked the data after I heard about this accident this morning, checked reports from our clients, and all this stuff on the news about severe turbulance seems pretty bogus to me. Yea, sure, they were flying around convective thunderstorms, but nothing out of the ordinary, especially for a big boy jet like the A-bus. I really have a feeling, if we find out at all, that there was something else to this. If it does in fact end up being because of a lightning strike that threw everything offboard, then I'd like to know what was wrong with the aircraft to have such a catastrophic failure with something (a lightning strike) that is usually not such a huge issue. No matter what, its still a really really sad day. Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #48 June 2, 2009 QuoteI believe that people underestimate the possibility in-flight break ups due to turbulence. Me, I am looking at the passenger list and the countries that they are from.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #49 June 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteI believe that people underestimate the possibility in-flight break ups due to turbulence. Me, I am looking at the passenger list and the countries that they are from. So I take it you believe this is a terrorist act? That doesn't make a lot of sense given what we already know.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #50 June 2, 2009 QuoteI believe that people underestimate the possibility in-flight break ups due to turbulence. short of flying into a lenticular cloud at that height, or the anvil top of the CB's at flight level 420 (which is the tops the radar indicated...typical in that region this time of year), which the aircraft had no business being around if that was the case, it would take a hell of a lot of turbulance at that flight level to rip apart an airbus. Now, at lower levels, you can consider other things to down a plane (IE: microbursts, etc), but this was not the case. There's only so much that can go on at the upper levels of a long range cruise.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
