Air France Jet Missing

[Rookie120 0]

No way to tell from what I see there. The only thing I can tell ya is that is all of those are real that thing was in deep shit! All those WRN is really bad.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[ryoder 1,384]

Quote

No way to tell from what I see there. The only thing I can tell ya is that is all of those are real that thing was in deep shit! All those WRN is really bad.

OK, then can someone give us a line-by-line translation?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,400]

Here are a few translations I've been able to look up:

AP OFF - autopilot disengaged
CTL ALTN LAW - control law switched to "backup" state (i.e. fly by wire system degraded)
FLAG ON CAPT PFD (F/O PFD) - problem indicated on the primary flight display on left and right sides
A/THR OFF - autothrottles disengaged
TCAS FAULT - Traffic collision avoidance system failure
CTRL RUD TRAV LIM FAULT - failure of the rudder travel limiter (to prevent overstress of the tail by large rudder excursions at high speeds)

Many of the above can be caused by loss of air data; systems that rely on altimeter/airspeed readings will drop off line once that data becomes unavailable.

EFCS1, EFCS2 - electronic flight control system primary and backup warnings

NAV ADR DISAGREE - this is a big one. It means that of the three ADIRU platforms, none agree with each other, and thus there is no reliable air data. At this point the fly-by-wire system may have reverted to its worst casel backup mode, where the sidestick controllers directly control the flight surfaces with no computer modulation.

F/CTL PRIM 1 FAULT - Primary flight control computer failure
F/CTL SEC 1 FAULT - Secondary flight control computer failure

ISIS warning - the Integrated Standby Instrument System (i.e. independent backup instrumentation) has a problem. At this point they may have had no working instruments.

The ATA21 "ADVISORY" message is apparently part of the air conditioning system, and includes a code to indicate rapid cabin pressure change. It was the last message received.

The above suggests that by the time the cabin pressure started dropping they had no instruments and only very basic flight controls - and they would have had no visible horizon at night in a storm. Bad news.

=======================
Edited to add some more info:

Columns in the table are:

1. ATA Code & Part Identifier
2. Message Type
3. Date and Time
4. Actual message - numeric code and english text
5. Date
6. Flight #

ATA codes:
21 Air conditioning
22 Auto flight
27 Flight controls
34 Navigation


Message Type:
FR is a Fault Report that the crew would not have seen, WN is a warning that would have been displayed to the crew.

[nigel99 144]

Quote

Here are a few translations I've been able to look up:

AP OFF - autopilot disengaged
CTL ALTN LAW - control law switched to "backup" state (i.e. fly by wire system degraded)
FLAG ON CAPT PFD (F/O PFD) - problem indicated on the primary flight display on left and right sides
A/THR OFF - autothrottles disengaged
TCAS FAULT - Traffic collision avoidance system failure
CTRL RUD TRAV LIM FAULT - failure of the rudder travel limiter (to prevent overstress of the tail by large rudder excursions at high speeds)

Many of the above can be caused by loss of air data; systems that rely on altimeter/airspeed readings will drop off line once that data becomes unavailable.

EFCS1, EFCS2 - electronic flight control system primary and backup warnings

NAV ADR DISAGREE - this is a big one. It means that of the three ADIRU platforms, none agree with each other, and thus there is no reliable air data. At this point the fly-by-wire system may have reverted to its worst casel backup mode, where the sidestick controllers directly control the flight surfaces with no computer modulation.

F/CTL PRIM 1 FAULT - Primary flight control computer failure
F/CTL SEC 1 FAULT - Secondary flight control computer failure

ISIS warning - the Integrated Standby Instrument System (i.e. independent backup instrumentation) has a problem. At this point they may have had no working instruments.

The ATA21 "ADVISORY" message is apparently part of the air conditioning system, and includes a code to indicate rapid cabin pressure change. It was the last message received.

The above suggests that by the time the cabin pressure started dropping they had no instruments and only very basic flight controls - and they would have had no visible horizon at night in a storm. Bad news.

=======================
Edited to add some more info:

Columns in the table are:

1. ATA Code & Part Identifier
2. Message Type
3. Date and Time
4. Actual message - numeric code and english text
5. Date
6. Flight #

ATA codes:
21 Air conditioning
22 Auto flight
27 Flight controls
34 Navigation


Message Type:
FR is a Fault Report that the crew would not have seen, WN is a warning that would have been displayed to the crew.

One news report indicated that one of the messages was that the cabin vertical speed limit was exceeded at some point.

Quade & others thanks for the detail on the pitot tubes and weather radar very interesting.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

One news report indicated that one of the messages was that the cabin vertical speed limit was exceeded at some point.

Could explain the thing breaking up inflight if that what happened. WOW! This is not good.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[billvon 2,400]

>One news report indicated that one of the messages was that the cabin
>vertical speed limit was exceeded at some point.

That was the ATA21 message. I assume that it indicates depressurization, but could also mean too-rapid descent.

[1969912 0]

" DEVELOPING: The first bodies of passengers of the doomed Air France flight that plummeted into the Atlantic Ocean have been found, Brazil's air force said Saturday.

Reuters reported that Brazilian search crews scanning the Atlantic Ocean located some of the bodies of passengers from Flight 447 -- which crashed midway through a trip from Rio de Janeiro to Paris early Monday morning."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525297,00.html

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[quade 3]

Quote

One news report indicated that one of the messages was that the cabin vertical speed limit was exceeded at some point.

"Cabin altitude" is the pressure at which the cabin is pressurized to. Normally you wouldn't want to change that very fast so that the passengers can easily deal with the changes in their ears. On most modern aircraft this is pretty much and automatic system unless something goes wrong.

If the cabin was breached at altitude by the pressure relief valve blowing, a window breaking or the airplane coming apart entirely, the speed at which that change would take place could easily exceed the acceptable limits.

It's one of the first things I noticed when I read the reports of data that was sent automatically and one of the major clues that something went horribly wrong.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LongWayToFall 0]

4 More bodies found, US sending underwater equipment to french ships monday to look for black boxes.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane