Skydiving is risky but safe

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

But some of you are so experienced, and you have failed to see the sport from a Newbie eye..

I actually think I can use myself of an example of someone still able to view this sport from a newbies perspective. You see I haven't been jumping long at all (only 18 months). But I have had enough experience and close calls to know that the dangers do very much exist in this sport. It wasn't all that long ago, that I viewed this sport from the "hey it's not all that dangerous" point of view. But times have changed. I grew up quick.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[pds 0]

re:carted off....

this is for you math whizzes out there - i think it would be interesting to see some kind of graph that maps the quantity of injuries against the severity of said injuries for various sports and activities.

from my perspective - mishaps in most all other activities result in relatively minor injuries - and lots of them.

how often are we reading about one out of the 30,000 (?) active skydivers in the world (?) having severe or critical injuries? broken femurs or broken pelvis are potentially fatal injuries. and how many _dont_ we read about?

grrr.......

and to reiterate - funny how it's just the 50jump chumps that think jumping from an aircraft is safe.

namaste, motherfucker.

[elfanie 0]

Quote

and to reiterate - funny how it's just the 50jump chumps that think jumping from an aircraft is safe.

Cute. Someone disagrees with you and rather than addressing the topic you resort to trying to demean them and personal insults by calling them names.

That's very nice...and also very constructive.

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Quote

And comparing it to random freak accidents like the chances of me dying while eating a ham sandwich....Yes it has happened, but almost EVERYONE that is alive eats sandwhiches.

HAHAHAHA!@!


(Breathe) ok. Anywho... I am a newbie, too, and I don't see this sport as safe. I knew getting into it that it wasn't safe. I didn't need to fool myself into thinking it was safe in order to get the guts up to participate. The element of danger is what makes this a thrill. Let's face it, if there were no chance of death, it wouldn't get your adrenaline pumping, which is why most of us are in it (I think). The sport isn't safe, you're jumping out of a plane, people!

luv2fly wrote:

Quote

You need to take at look from the Newbie eye who has been taught all of the safety rules. To me, I want to stick around to enjoy the sport - so no swooping, no low turns, no flying in too high winds, and on and on. It needs to be fun -

Ok, you say this needs to be fun. Everyone has a different idea of fun. Some peoples idea of fun is swooping. As Ron has pointed out, the deaths were not all swoopers. Many people find this part of the sport a thrill, and they work to get good... lots of practice and starting off slow. These are good canopy pilots, and if you are both facing a collision, i'm going to venture a guess that they fly their canopies a lot better than you (or me) and will be more likely to walk away. Of course, this is just speculation.

Angela.

[labrys 0]

Quote

and to reiterate - funny how it's just the 50jump chumps that think jumping from an aircraft is safe.

I represent that remark.

No wait...... (reading my own posts) No, I don't.

Why do so many people here tie jump numbers to opinion? OPINION. It seems to me that a fair number or "50jump" (sic) chumps participating in this discussion agree with you. Are you trying to insult anyone in particular?

Owned by Remi #?

[pds 0]

Quote

Quote

and to reiterate - funny how it's just the 50jump chumps that think jumping from an aircraft is safe.

I represent that remark.

No wait...... (reading my own posts) No, I don't.

Why do so many people here tie jump numbers to opinion? OPINION. It seems to me that a fair number or "50jump" (sic) chumps participating in this discussion agree with you. Are you trying to insult anyone in particular?

nope. it rhymes. kinda rolls offa the tongue. i wuznt calling anyone in particular anything. would 100 jump wonder have sounded better? all same same.

chump means thick. dense. thats all. one who believes that skydiving is a safe endeavor qualifies. IMO.

i can appreciate your sensitivity to a percieved slight that partially describes you (50jumps) but don't let that fool ya. there was another qualifier: that think skydiving is safe. that's not you, is it?


peace and chicken grease.

namaste, motherfucker.

[Ron 7]

hey stud she didn't explain when I wrote the question...

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

Quote

Cute. Someone disagrees with you and rather than addressing the topic you resort to trying to demean them and personal insults by calling them names.

That's very nice...and also very constructive.

Its also pretty damn accurate.

rigging65 (Ryan) said it really well:

Quote

With absolutely no insult intended, this is the reason why experienced jumpers are able to say the sport isn't safe...because they're experienced. There is no "Newbie" point of view...there is only reality. The fact that when you're new, you don't know everything that goes on, or have a frame of reference to compare events to, doesn't change reality

We have seen enough to KNOW its not safe. We have seen people do everthing right and still end up in a meat waggon. We have seen many more make small mistakes and die or be really screwed up.

I have a friend. He was a VERY good freeflier. He was also a land straight in kinda guy. He was on a normal straight in approach, and got caught in some bad winds. Now he needs someone to take care of him...One of the greatist guys you could know....Did NOTHING wrong. Now he is mentaly handicaped.

So we have seen enough over and over to know that its not safe. We have accepted the fact that it is not safe, and do what we can to minimize the risk....But we still jump anyway knowing we could die for no reason.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Remster 24]

Sky,

lets try to keep it civil..... We know we're right about the sport not being safe, but no reason to insult others who disagree (and who I'm sure feel they are right about it being safe).

Forget my greenie status, I'm just a regular-joe in this forum...

Remster

[mr2mk1g 10]

The title to this thread is an oxymoron! Safe means "Free from harm, injury or risk". If something is risky it cannot meet the definition of "safe".

[relyon 0]

Quote

hey stud she didn't explain when I wrote the question...

Yes she did. The post that she explains her reasoning was entered Jan 20 and your post was made on Jan 21. And don't pretend it was a question. You were making a insensitive inflaming statement implying a lack of concern on her part regarding fatalities other than her husband. Grow up.

Bob

[Ron 7]

You grow up....My clock is not set the same as hers stud.

Or are you to thick to know that. Plus I am on the east cost hero and she is west coast.

Notice mine was at 1 AM? I was not even on here at 1AM. I was asleep

Get a life moron.

And PM your pissness next time...

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[relyon 0]

Quote

You grow up....My clock is not set the same as hers stud.

Or are you to thick to know that. Plus I am on the east cost hero and she is west coast.

Notice mine was at 1 AM? I was not even on here at 1AM. I was asleep

Her post is #50 and yours is #66. They were posted close to 9 hours apart.

Quote

Get a life moron.

And PM your pissness next time...

I'm calling you on an insensitive comment you made to her to which you add more directed at me. Like many others, I value your opinion though I may disagree with it at times. I'm sure you can express yourself in a more civil manner.

Bob

[Ron 7]

Quote

I'm calling you on an insensitive comment you made to her to which you add more directed at me

What do you call you telling me to grow up?

Besides here coments about not letting fatalities that you know of effect your choices...Then saying that her husbands would effect her.

#1. Thats not consistant with what she had said before.

#2. Its a valid question to ask her, and I was not the only one to ask it.

#3. I really had no idea that she had answered that already, I am on here a lot, but I don't read every post.

#4 My post times are always off anyway on this...Like I said I was not even here at 1 AM. This post will be sent around noon my time.

It may not be polite, or PC...But I think you know me by now that I don't care about PC and I missed my college course in maners.

Edit to Add: I also think you would know I don't "Troll" I ask questions to make people think, not piss them off.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[winsor 186]

Quote

It may sound as a contradiction but I say that:

Skydiving is risky but safe

Risky because you risk death everytime you jump out of an airplane

Safe because human mistakes account for nearly 100% of accidents and human mistakes is what we can and should avoid by learning, training and knowing our limitations

Unsafe because a minor error of judgement or technique can, and routinely does, result in grievous injury or death.

If you have to bat a thousand, it is NOT safe. NOBODY bats a thousand.


Blue skies, black death,

Winsor

[FunBobby 0]

(From a similar thread):

In my line of work, I do a lot of risk analysis, which sometimes becomes a rather lengthy and involved process. 2 elements that define how risky an event is are the probability and severity of that event happening. In skydiving, statistically speaking, the probability of having a really, really bad malfunction may be pretty low, but the severity of the outcome of having that really bad malfunction is awful.

There's a saying about aviation... it's not necessarily dangerous, but it is terribly unforgiving. The same might be said for skydiving.

With all of the safety measures and practices in place, the chance of having a really, really bad incident are pretty low, but the consequence of that incident - death or serious injury - is pretty severe.

Here is that thread, if anyone cares

FunBobby

[pkasdorf 0]

Quote

There's a saying about aviation... it's not necessarily dangerous, but it is terribly unforgiving. The same might be said for skydiving.

Excellent definition!!

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[FunBobby 0]

Thank ya!

Blue skies 2u -

FunBobby

[hookitt 0]

Long post alert.

Quote

There's a saying about aviation... it's not necessarily dangerous, but it is terribly unforgiving. The same might be said for skydiving.

I agree... to a large extent.

Safe.... ish....like...

Imagine throwing the pilot chute and then wondering if the canopy is damaged. You have to pick your head up with your hands because your neck hurts so bad. You still have to land but you can't turn your head, and you have no choice but to look down. Raising your arms is a difficult task as well. You land but you leave your equipment for some one else to pick up. It's just to heavy and you can hardly breathe. It was safe because you were able to steer and land with out seeing your path, wander into the hangar writhing in pain but you didn't die from it. Luckily other people will bring you water and pain killers. *that was a mouth full whew*

Imaging you just opened up your parachute and a body safely passes the nose of your canopy by about 15 or 20 feet. It was safe, cuz the body missed the parachute. big sky theory in affect!

Imagine you tracked off from a bigway head down dive to quickly and caused a collision. It was safe cuz both people dazed as they were, managed to have the presence of mind no matter how much it hurt, to pull, fly and land with out further incident. Imagine at least one of you taking 2 weeks off because of it.

Imagine facing a helicopter at opening and being close enough to wave to the pilot. The pilot freaks out and turns away and the exact same thing happens again. The pilot wises up and just goes into a dive. It was safe because, no connection between chopper and skydiver happened. Then you say. "where the heck did that come from"

Imagine the wind comes up to about 35 miles per hour as soon as the load exits the plane. Now EVERY one on the sunset load lands off going backwards. Better have your shit together.

There many more. And I don't have that vivid of an imagination if you know what I mean.

I don't really understand this discussion to be honest. It's blatantly obvious that what we do is not forgiving.

As an AFF instructor, I've seen some of the most radical things happen. I guess since no one was hurt and in the end the person was safe...........

People don't get hurt often and the big sky theory will work out most of the time. Equipment has advanced so well that it's pretty darn reliable.

People put themselves in dangerous situations and when nothing seems to happen, the fear goes away. I've often been scared for other people. Ever been really worried about something another person is doing?

When I started skydiving my brother was afraid for me because he didn't really understand. When he started 5 years later, I was even more scared than he was because I knew something he didn't.

I sure like this sport even after a bunch of my friends were killed or maimed. I'm glad it wasn't me, but I sure wish it wasn't them either.

I've seen ambulances and life flights many times. Skydiving is unforgiving when things get bad. It's Fantastic when things are good.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[surfbum5412 0]

Quote

Skydiving is not safe. You can do everything right, and still die.

_Am

As far as gear, etc... this doesn't apply. As far as other people trying to kill me, yes, I agree.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

As far as gear, etc... this doesn't apply.

Of course it does. You can maintain your rig as diligently as possible, then pack it as diligently as possible, then go out on a solo jump under ideal conditions and do everything right, and still die. It's the very nature of the beast; and any skydiver who lulls himself into believing otherwise is in denial at best.

[jayrech 0]

Quote

what part or getting into your vehicle and driving down the street with all the "drunk" drivers out there do you deem safe? Pull your head out of your ass!

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

• Quote

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Quote

Skydiving is not safe. You can do everything right, and still die.

_Am

As far as gear, etc... this doesn't apply. As far as other people trying to kill me, yes, I agree.

Sometimes we learn about gear the hard way.

We've had reserve container lockups due to interactions with AAD cutters and auxiliary opening devices.

Back in the 1990s when non-Dacron lines become common, we learned that accepted grommet seating procedures weren't enough. People died from main/reserve entanglements.

Before that we learned that a mesh manufacturer's flame retardant coating became acidic thus ruining the structural integrity of reserves.

Without a rigging ticket and experience you don't know the shape your gear is actually in.

I knew a woman who made a jump on a rig where the manufacturer neglected to do some of the structural stitching. She ended up sitting weird in the harness, had it checked, and the consensus was that it would have failed on reserve deployment.

Incorrect harness assembly has caused fatalities.

I've seen incorrectly installed toggles come off on landing. With small parachutes that would be fatal.

A lot of people also die in general aviation accidents related to skydiving. Very few skydivers are actually in a position to detect problems with maintenance and piloting and most don't have the knowledge.

Most people who die skydiving made a series of mistakes getting there, although death is still possible from other sources.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Skydiving is not safe.

Lying in bed with the covers over your head is safe (assuming you remembered to turn the stove off before going to bed).

[labrys 0]

Quote

what part or getting into your vehicle and driving down the street with all the "drunk" drivers out there do you deem safe? Pull your head out of your ass!

Those are fightin' words for a guy with 16 jumps in 2 years.

Owned by Remi #?