Hybrid reserves?

[mjosparky 3]

I would like to hear how many have a hybrid reserve (ZP & F-111 type) in their rigs. Also how many riggers have packed them?
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[piisfish 135]

do you know who manufactures such reserves ??

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[sundevil777 94]

Precision

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Miami 0]

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I would like to hear how many have a hybrid reserve (ZP & F-111 type) in their rigs. Also how many riggers have packed them?

Both of my personal rigs have the Precision -mz hybrid reserves. No jumps on them yet so cannot comment on how they fly...yet. Packed them a few times, really no difference from a new reserve.

Miami

[kwmontreal 0]

I have an MZ150 hybrid in my Mirage M2. My rigger hates me as the reserve container is supposed to max out at a 143. I like miami, have not had the misfortune of having to use it yet.

Jump Safe.

Kent

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE!

[skybeergodd 0]

I have packed probly 50 to 60 of those DAMN things(including 1 today) and If I ever catch the stupid idiot that decided to market those pieces of S**T I'd love to kick his A**( and yes I know that Precision Aero. put them out and George Galloway is the man to look for).....Huge pain in any riggers ass and I highly recommend to any rigger to charge an extra $15 to $20 for a pain in the ass tax. I know that I do.

[diablopilot 2]

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I have an MZ150 hybrid in my Mirage M2. My rigger hates me as the reserve container is supposed to max out at a 143.

A PDR143 measures larger than a than a MZ150 when measured by the same method.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggerrob 558]

I have packed two or three Raven MZ reserves. No big deal. They took me an extra half hour, but that was mainly waiting for the sand bag to finish squeezing the air out. It would not have been possible without clamps or a molar strap.

[freeflyfree 0]

I also have a Dash-MZ 150, custom colors, white with light blue ribs it's nice, I wonder if a PDr126 is the same size as a Dash-MZ 135? I have never landed it BTW, how to they compare to each other the PD against the D-MZ?

felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[mjosparky 3]

For those of you that bought them new, what was your reason for going with the hybrid over a non-hybrid?
Sparky

Skybeergodd,
I agree with you, packing a ZP main is one thing, I can see no reason to have to do it for a reserve.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydiverek 56]

Here is a comment from Performance Designs on Zero-P reserves:

"Why does PD not build reserves from zero-p fabric?

There are several reasons why we do not use zero-p fabric in our reserves. One reason involves the possibility of zero-p fabric sticking to itself. While PD Reserves have opened normally after staying packed for over a year, we have seen zero-p main canopies completely stuck together after staying packed for the same period of time. Our reserves also opened normally after being frozen, baked in an oven at 200 F, or compressed with more than 200 lbs (90 kg) of weight for over 17 days.

Another major concern involves tear strength at high speeds. Tears, friction burns, and other types of damage can be caused by something as simple as lines or a riser dragging past the reserve as it deploys. If a tear or other type of failure occurs on an “F-111” type canopy, it is likely to be self-contained and landable. With zero-p fabric, damage tends to be catastrophic and makes the canopy unlandable. Also, burn damage is much harder to detect on zero-p. Frequently burn damage just looks like a crease in the fabric, when in fact the tensile strength in the area has been lowered to only a few pounds.

Zero-p canopies also tend to have a higher pack volume, and are generally not as easy to pack as "F-111" type material. We would prefer to make things as easy as possible for your rigger, and think the advantages of being able to fit a slightly larger reserve in your rig outweigh any advantages that a zero-p reserve would provide."


[url]http://www.performancedesigns.com/faq.htm#11">Why does PD not build reserves from zero-p fabric? back to top

There are several reasons why we do not use zero-p fabric in our reserves. One reason involves the possibility of zero-p fabric sticking to itself. While PD Reserves have opened normally after staying packed for over a year, we have seen zero-p main canopies completely stuck together after staying packed for the same period of time. Our reserves also opened normally after being frozen, baked in an oven at 200 F, or compressed with more than 200 lbs (90 kg) of weight for over 17 days.

Another major concern involves tear strength at high speeds. Tears, friction burns, and other types of damage can be caused by something as simple as lines or a riser dragging past the reserve as it deploys. If a tear or other type of failure occurs on an “F-111” type canopy, it is likely to be self-contained and landable. With zero-p fabric, damage tends to be catastrophic and makes the canopy unlandable. Also, burn damage is much harder to detect on zero-p. Frequently burn damage just looks like a crease in the fabric, when in fact the tensile strength in the area has been lowered to only a few pounds.

Zero-p canopies also tend to have a higher pack volume, and are generally not as easy to pack as "F-111" type material. We would prefer to make things as easy as possible for your rigger, and think the advantages of being able to fit a slightly larger reserve in your rig outweigh any advantages that a zero-p reserve would provide.

[url]http://www.performancedesigns.com/faq.htm#11

[EricTheRed 0]

I have one ride on a -MZ 150. It flew just fine. I followed my bag-locked main to a cow pasture and had a nice soft stand-up landing about 10 foot from the main.
It flared about like a 7-cell F111 but seemed to have a bit more lift. I did have time for one good practice flare and it did seem to want to stall predictably when I flared REALLY deep.

illegible usually

[Miami 0]

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For those of you that bought them new, what was your reason for going with the hybrid over a non-hybrid?

Because I was under the impression that it will fly better than an f-111. I was buying a pair of precision reserves anyway, at the time the zp option was no extra charge, I was going to be loading my reserve at 1.8 or so, zp seemed like the way to go. When I get the opportunity to jump one I'll tell let you know how it was...

Miami

[kaerock 1]

They suck to pack. I HATE them. I will not pack one unless offered money as I usually pack for just my friends and charge a meal. I packed two of them and they were the sloppiest packs I've ever done.

thumbs down.

-Rory

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I would like to hear how many have a hybrid reserve (ZP & F-111 type) in their rigs. Also how many riggers have packed them?
Sparky

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[DJL 232]

I've tried to pack my ZP Lightning in practice to packing a Base canopy. It was practically pointless since it was hard to keep everything together. I wouldn't buy one because:

-I wouldn't want to inflict ZP on my rigger.
-I would worry about the canopy sliding around despict his best efforts.
-I don't care about better forward flight characteristics when it just became more likely that I'll have sink something into a back yard.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[hookitt 0]

I feel that ZP top skin reserves are very unnecessary. They pack up easy enough though. It takes a certain amount of finesse but it’s not difficult. As unlikely as it is for ZP to fail, when it does, it has a tendency to fail big. To the best of my knowledge, ZP top skin Raven –M’s have never failed in service. I’ve packed a reserve that was packed for over a year. It did not experience the ZP sticking together.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[nicknitro71 0]

I have an ACE (Consolidated Rigging sewn by PD) that has an upper composite skin. A bit less than the center to front top skin is Z-po and the rest F-111. IMO it packs just as well as all F-111. I wonder why reserves are not built that way.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[mjosparky 3]

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There are several reasons why we do not use zero-p fabric in our reserves. One reason involves the possibility of zero-p fabric sticking to itself. While PD Reserves have opened normally after staying packed for over a year, we have seen zero-p main canopies completely stuck together after staying packed for the same period of time. Our reserves also opened normally after being frozen, baked in an oven at 200 F, or compressed with more than 200 lbs (90 kg) of weight for over 17 days.

This is what they are refering to, taken from AS8015B.

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4.3.3 Compressed Pack and Environmental Tests: Three drops shall be made to the lowest applicable direct
drop speed in 4.3.6 except that prior to the test the parachute assembly shall be subjected to the
following preconditioning: (These tests may be combined with other tests.)
4.3.3.1 Precondition for 16 h at not less than +200 °F (93.3 °C), stabilize to ambient and test drop.
4.3.3.2 Precondition for 16 h at not greater than -40 °F (-40 °C), stabilize to ambient and test drop.
4.3.3.3 Precondition for not less than 400 continuous hours with a 200 lbf (889.6 N) or greater load applied to
compress the pack in a manner similar to that most likely to be encountered in actual use. Test drop
within 1 h after removing the load.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

I want to thank everyone for their input and opinions. I am not sure of the reasoning behind making a hybrid reserve and can see why it is not wide spread.
Again, Thanks
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[twnsnd 1]

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I like miami

Wait, you LIKE him or you LIKE LIKE him. If you LIKE LIKE him, you may have to answer to Spizzzarko.

-We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.-

[Miami 0]

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I am not sure of the reasoning behind making a hybrid reserve and can see why it is not wide spread.

To my understanding the zp reserves were actually made with CRW dogs in mind. They tend to frequent their reserves more than most, therefore wear out their reserves that much faster. Having a zp top skin reserve enables the reserve to be used much more frequently without wearing out like an f-111 canopy does.

Supposedly a new f-111 reserve, or any new out of the bag f-111 canopy, does not fly all that different from an identically built zp canopy. F-111 canopies just lose their porosity over time where zp should not.

Hope this helps...

Miami

[ryoder 1,393]

I have had a Raven Dash MZ for about three years. I am also a rigger. The last time I packed it was also the FIRST time I was actually happy with my pack job. I wouldn't pack one for anyone else unless sex was part of the payment.

(FYI: My newest rig has a PD in it.)

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[relyon 0]

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To my understanding the zp reserves were actually made with CRW dogs in mind.

Huh. That's the first I've heard that sort of thing, but I'll ask some of my CRW buds and hear what they have to say.

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They tend to frequent their reserves more than most, therefore wear out their reserves that much faster. Having a zp top skin reserve enables the reserve to be used much more frequently without wearing out like an f-111 canopy does.

It's true CRWdogs use reserves a little more often than most, but we rarely have terminal deployments so I'm not sure the wear factor is that big of a deal. I've got 8 jumps and a full packing data card for my Tempo 170 (DOM mid '97), and it's in great shape. A friend of mine has something like 30+ jumps on his Swift+ 175 and won't consider anything else.

If I was in the market for a new reserve these days, I'd probably go for a PR 160 or 176 because I'm pretty familiar with the flight characteristics of that airfoil/planform (the Lightning is based on it).

Bob

[masterrig 1]

WOW! After that, I hope I never have to pack one! Also, have you seen George Galloway? That guy is BIG!!! Seriously though, I can't understand anyone wanting a 'Hi-bred' reserve. The problems I have seen folks have with their ZP mains, and as the man mentioned in this thread, a line burn, could look like a wrinkle. I guess, If I had to I&R one, I'd take your advice and charge extra. I think, F-111 reserves are just fine.

Chuck

[mjosparky 3]

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WOW! After that, I hope I never have to pack one!

Repeat after me, "I choose not to pack hybrid reserves". Works great for me.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals