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jimmyh

Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

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As always when a friend of mine dies, I feel completely gutted.

He will be mourned and missed as long as those who have had the pleasure to know him live.

But my reason for posting about Jimmy's death is this:

I want to publicly announce my complete displeasure with the BASE fatality list. Whatever service the BFL may have once served is competely over. It is my firm conviction that far from honoring the lives and deaths of our fallen brothers and sisters, the online list trivializes, mocks, and in many other ways does a huge disservice to those who have passed as well as those who are left behind.

I would love to privately discuss this matter with anyone interested in this subject, but let me quite simply say right here that the BASE fatality list is distasteful, wrong, disgusting, hurtful, sickening, offensive, abhorrent, etc. etc. etc.

The memory of Jimmy Hall (BASE jumping was the smallest fraction of what has made him a great person) deserves better. He deserves to be remembered with honor by those who loved and knew him. His death is a tragedy. No good has come of it, no good will ever come of it, and nothing will be learned by touting it online with a few words written by a guy who prides himself on being the guy who writes about BASE jumpers who have died.

I don't even know the guy who writes the "list", but please whoever you are think very hard before you put Jimmy's name on there.

edit for thread title ~TA

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I do not agree with you. there is no need for a "death list" the list is definitely an unnecessary evil. I searched many sports including snowboarding, diving and climbing and there are no "death list". there were a few mentions of good athletes who died, but no list. these sports seem to be doing just fine without a fatality list. Which just proves that there is no need for one. When i was learning to BASE jump the one thing that people repeatedly said was that both me and my parents should read the list. Finally i did and i found it sickening that someone who has never met 90% of these people thought he/she had the right or "responsibility" to tell there story. I think the list is a sick portrayal of who BASE jumpers are and i think that if the list should stick around it should be up the the friends or parents of the ones who died to tell there story, not someone who has ample amount of time on his/her hands.

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Claire, I respect your emotions and beliefs, but BASE is not snowboarding. Never has been or will be. It is a truly dangerous sport with little margin for error. In 35 years I've had over 40 friends die skydiving and BASE jumping. Every one I knew would like to be remembered as part of a very unique group of humans who really went out on the edge to enjoy life. It shouldn't be looked at as morbid at all. It shouldn't be an honor either. Just a tribute to the memory of a brother or sister that was also willing to go off the edge.
Rick
Rick Harrison

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but it IS looked at as morbid. by EVERYONE who is not a BASE jumper. it is looked at by the media as a proud announcement of how extreme we are.

I think it does some good, but i think it does some bad as well.

I have it printed out and archived to look at now and then. but every single news article about a fatality refers to it. as if every reported BASE fatitly is reporting the 100 fatalities before it as well.

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I've split this thread off the Jimmy Hall fatality thread. Let's try to keep that thread as a positive condolences and memories thread for the deceased, and discuss other issues in separate threads.

Thanks!
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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to clarify, i think it does a lot of good to teach new people, and to remember the departed,

Im not for or against it.

I also thank nick DG for keeping it current, it is a shitty job. and he is good at it.

on a different note, I dont believe in censorship. and the list does not lie. it may speculate here and there, but ot much.

I do want to be on it if i die BASE jumping, or in another sport as a 'died outside BASE'.

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Fuck this argument and this Split Thread.
Hasn't this already been hashed out to death in the past on this bullshit forum ? I thought that it was decided that. If you DON'T want to be on the 'Dead BASE jumpers List'. Then don't DIE BASE jumping. or Don't take up BASE jumping.
It also does not matter what anybody wants. It's a free country and it's Internet Info. That is put up by a person who has a right to post that info anytime and in any manor that person deems presentable.
Also the BASE DEATH LIST is JUMP INFO. and can also be interpreted as the WHY & HOW or reflect patters of fault and errors made. That is knowledge possibly learned and then not repeated.

So no one has to like or dislike the ( World BASE Fatality List ) . Just live with it. or Die on it.
.

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>and nothing will be learned by touting it online with a few words written by a guy who prides himself on being the guy who writes about BASE jumpers who have died.
~ If you seriously believe that Nick "prides himself on being the guy who writes about BASE jumpers who have died" you're a bigger ass than you act. I can't quote Nick exactly but I remember seeing something to the effect of: "No matter what I do , I'll always be remembered for that damn list." anyone know the quote correctly?
<<Hasn't this already been hashed out to death in the past on this bullshit forum ? I thought that it was decided that. If you DON'T want to be on the 'Dead BASE jumpers List'. Then don't DIE BASE jumping. or Don't take up BASE jumping.
It also does not matter what anybody wants. It's a free country and it's Internet Info. That is put up by a person who has a right to post that info anytime and in any manor that person deems presentable.
Also the BASE DEATH LIST is JUMP INFO. and can also be interpreted as the WHY & HOW or reflect patters of fault and errors made. That is knowledge possibly learned and then not repeated.

So no one has to like or dislike the ( World BASE Fatality List ) . Just live with it. or Die on it.
.
~~~ A-fucking-men.
~J
"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest"
"There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act"

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Claire, I respect your emotions and beliefs, but BASE is not snowboarding. Never has been or will be. It is a truly dangerous sport with little margin for error. In 35 years I've had over 40 friends die skydiving and BASE jumping. Every one I knew would like to be remembered as part of a very unique group of humans who really went out on the edge to enjoy life. It shouldn't be looked at as morbid at all. It shouldn't be an honor either. Just a tribute to the memory of a brother or sister that was also willing to go off the edge.
Rick



I totally agree.
We have to learn from others mistakes and also we have to keep the "reality" in our minds what can we and what we cannot do...thats one really good reason why that list should be there.
Also, in my opinion, if someone wants to think that this sports are safe and fades the reality of the dangers of the basejumping away, you really should print the list and read it again. Learn from it, again, and again.

I think if someone collects the death list of snowbording or some other "safer" sport, and then analyze the fatalitites...everyone can guess what are the results of that...

_____________________________________________
F......ck the Finns !!!
FastPete www.pete.fi email: pete@pete.fi

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I don't view the list as morbid.

The AAJ actually keeps track every year of the names and accidents that occur climbing/hiking ect. As an avid climber I read it to learn from others that were once here.

I don't know Nick D, but from what I read on the list he is not disrespectful.

I just want to say this...WHO gives a fuck what others (media ect...) think about this sport. Do you think for one instant that they "get" it?? They never will. Did you get into BASE because of what others think? I hope not. If they view the list as morbid....let em. They will never understand.

This is a sport where ignorance will hurt you.

Jimmy was rad. I know that BASE was such a small part of his life. And he will be remembered for more than BASE jumping.

I disagree that nothing good will come from Jimmys' death.

He was one of the most positive people at the DZ on the N. shore and he will continue to be a positive influence on his friends and family that are left behind.

I wouldn't mind talking the list over with you, but it seems you've made up your mind on what it means.

Just because Jimmy passed away doesn't mean he can be a positive influence on someone elses life.

Jimmy was larger than life itself.



Are we Spiritual Beings with a Human Existence,
or Human Beings with a Spiritual Existence?

I miss you Jimmy.

Blue Skies Brother.

A Hui ho.

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Hey Jimmy,

Sorry for your loss bro. In regards to the list, I'd rather not comment on my personal feelings but I would like to make a suggestion for the future of the list which might make both sides happy.

Why does the list need to be a public page? If one of the main arguments for keeping the list is that it is used as a learning tool for new jumpers, why can't the site be password protected. That way the world and media cannot see it, the list still exists for documentation purposes, is available for those who wish to read it periodically, and is there for new jumpers to hopefully learn from others accidents and hopefully stay alive.

Just a thought....

Coco

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I also thank nick DG for keeping it current, it is a shitty job. and he is good at it.



yes, it´s a shitty job indeed.

when my friend died last year (#101), i provided all information a week later to nick, including a pic. it was first hand information, cuz i was the only one with him up there.

until yet, you can read an "internet translation" for what happened. i asked nick several times by mail, why he doesn´t use my information and pic and he answered he will fix that.

is that a good job?! i´m pissed cuz of this and sorry for getting OT in this thread, but if there´s a list, it should be as good as possible what means to use right and proper information!

andY

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If God forbid I should die on a BASE jump, I want my name to go down on the list for 2 reasons:

1. So other people contemplating entering the sport can see the real dangers and not underestimate the seriousness of the risks.
2. So active BASE jumpers can learn from the mistakes of other people. This may lead them to change their technical practices, it may also lead those 'push the limit's the step back a little.

I don't want my name to be there as a testiment 'no shit I want to be remembered'. I want the BASE fatality list to be a place where people decide if this sport is for them and where they can learn.

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I am not a BASE jumper but have just lost a long time friend in the BASE world ( Stefan Oberlander) so I hear what you mean when you speak of lost friends. On the other hand I am a pro skier and have lost at least one friend a year and up to 7 in a year for the past 10 years. I do feel that some of them would still be here if there was a place that they could of read about all the others that have passed and seen the risk in what they were getting into. Most of the deaths have not been new kids but the veterans of the sport yes they know what they were doing and that is not the sad part the sad part is when a new kid gets in over his head and ends up dead do to ignorance. As a new skydiver but an athlete who pushes the limits which can and does result many death I think the list makes me step back and think a bit more on "Do I want to get into this". AS for not having a list of the other sports There is not one because it would be many books long and impossible to keep updated.

Just my thoughts and rip to all the lost friends and family.

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I dont see the List as a 'memorial' to fallen jumpers...although you can see how thats how it could be interpreted.
As already said....all of these people I'm sure were much more than 'BASE' and the List should not necessarily be the place defined as the 'memorial' to them.....but rather that should be somewhere else, in a place their family and close friends want it to be ( public/private )

The List , in my opinion, is a chronological record, a description of what went wrong and perhaps what could be avoided as well as a warning to us newbies coming along...

I think we are all told to read the list, before contemplating BASE....I did....I printed it out and read/analysed the entries over several weeks...and it does have a sobering effect on you if you do it this way..As my experience level increases I still go back and read through things I already analysed...and see things sometimes in a different light.

Its something , I think, that needs to be there in one form or another.
Personally I'd like to see more information on what might have gone wrong/what lead the event to happen...more than the List being a place to honour those who have died....I dont feel its accomplishing both (to their relative justices) at the moment..

But personally ...I'm glad its around, it serves a purpose....but sad to see the entries :(

Gizzoogling it or whatever its called.....IMHO...took a stab at degrading something I considered 'sacred'
Some things just shouldnt be turned into a joke as I see it..
....but the man who did it was the man who started the list...I still dont know what to think about that.

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the BASE fatality list is distasteful, wrong, disgusting, hurtful, sickening, offensive, abhorrent, etc. etc. etc.



it seems you have suffered a serious loss. (I never met your friend.)

the List is simply a tool. it can be used well, or improperly. the user gets to choose.

I like that the list exists. remember in the jumgle movies? all the shrunken heads marking a sacred spot? the List serves that sort of purpose. it warns people before entering.

youTube (and video in general) typically show the cool stuff and entice the unwary to BASE. the List acts as a balance, as a means to sober potential BASE jumpers. making the page unavailable to the public would destroy this function.

the List is NOT really a memorial to the people. you'd need a separated webpage for each individual to do them justice. the List is more about documenting mistakes. it needs the human face to grab people's attention.

I'm sure people have been offended by things I've said and done. you obviously know you have offended others as well. before we ask others to "clean up their act," should we not ask it of ourselves first? are you now free of sin?

p.s.
other sports do NOT compile such a list. most likely because of length and it counters marketing initiatives.

USPA publishes fatalities, but it cleanses the reports of all personal info, and does NOT make public an entire list, just an annual one. is that preferable?
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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When i was learning to BASE jump the one thing that people repeatedly said was that both me and my parents should read the list. Finally i did and i found it sickening



HIDGAF?

really?
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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Even though I might post a little too much, certain fragments of the list have slowed down my urge to rush into it all.

It is the counterweight to all those Jet Snortless and Raddy Holliday vids out there that show what a wonderful experience BASE can be. I think they have the tendency to portray BASE as the new cool, but I'm afraid a lot of prospective jumpers don't really understand the possible pricetag of all that joy.

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"I want to publicly announce my complete displeasure with the BASE fatality list...it's distasteful, wrong, disgusting, hurtful, sickening, offensive, abhorrent, etc. etc. etc."

I totally agree - we don't need a base fatality list like this.

what's with our base ethics here?
Here at the point where it comes to real ethics I realize how strange the base fatality list is, "producing" jumpers who have already prepared their picture for the list, just in case... how sick is that?

We for sure need a list where we can learn from base fatalities and to prevent accidents happen again and again. But we don't need personal information in it.

we don't learn more about basejumping when we know the jumpers name.

---

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