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base283

Sabre 170,collapsible PC,2sec FF at ITW

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Ray's local stuff is all pretty typical US objects. Mostly illegal, generally more technical than ITW, and a whole lot lower.



lets turn that 180 degrees,
I THINK that my objects are all pretty typical DK objects. illegal, generally more technical than Perrine..

does that mean i could jump off Perrine whith skydive gear whith out notice?

I dont think so:P(yes i know it has been done,still depending on who does so it get good or bad speach)

it dosnt matter which object you jump off,jumping whith the wrong gear will give you less chance of a perfect jump,doing so (specialy) at legal sites is bad juju and selfish.

I wont blame ANY to shut down a legal site if they used the right equipment,but if they used the wrong equipment then it wouldnt be so easy to acsept..

Its all about repect to the locals and their object.

I see NO REASSON to use skydive gear on fixed objects,other than look cool at vid:ph34r:

Just my oppinion.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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Hello to all,
in my opinion the only way in order to reduce these events is the information. If a person is ignoring or not informed on the BASE is unavoidable that sooner or later he is killed.
Here there are the rules of the ITW http://www.basearco.com, but all do not use Internet in order to inquire themselves, if you had to meet a person whom it wants to jump with a material of skydiving just call the police enforcements, at ITW call 112.

I know that technique is inefficente legal, but if this is an ignoring person wants to say that he does not know the law and probably he listens to you.

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There's film and still photos of Carl Boenish BASE jumping, but for the most part he was behind the camera most of the time. The two major times he violated that was his pogo and stilt walking off El Cap, which kind of backfired, when jumpers accused him of turning Yosemite into a granite circus. The next time was allowing himself to be filmed for a television show which turned out to be the trip to Norway that ended his life in 1984.

I was at the USPA get together when Carl was posthumously awarded the USPA Achievement Award. Jean, his widow, was there of course, and I met Carl's mother and sister. There weren't any other BASE jumpers there and BASE isn't mentioned much during the evening. One by one all the USPA bigwigs stood and told their stories about Carl. Mostly, these were about the early days of RW and the large part Carl played in filming it. I wanted to get up and say something further about Carl's involvement in BASE jumping, how his films helped spread the word, how his BASE Magazine filled the void for those just dreaming or starting out.

But I didn't. And I'm sorry for it to this day.

I was a bit intimated and really thought as soon as I started talking about BASE I would be booed off the stage. In those days skydivers and BASE jumpers were in the grips of a cold war. Also, what he did for BASE jumping wasn't as clear in my mind as it is today. Now you can't get me to shut up about Carl . . .

Instead I wandered over to one of the tables filled by the usual mementos of the departed. The first jump certificate he earned at Lake Elsinore in 1960 was there, some baby pictures, and many photographs that PARACHUTIST had run over the years. But there was something else that caught my eye. It was a little red logbook.

I picked it expecting it to be his first one, but it turned out to be his last one. And it was mostly BASE jumps with a skydive here and there. Carl didn't have as many BASE jumps as some at the time. Guys like Phil Smith, Mark Hewitt, and Rich Stein were, as far as numbers, the most experienced. But, I do recall feeling I was holding something very special in my hands.

Carl didn't have all the answers in his day, but he was learning fast, and you can read it in his old magazines. First it was all about the magic and wonder of BASE jumping and Carl could certainly be a little "out there" with the "Zen" of it all. But by the later issues (there were six or seven in all) he was getting serious about being technical and safe.

In fact it's one of the great mysteries surrounding his death. Anyone who participated in any parachute related projects with him will say he was almost too anal about figuring things out beforehand. He was, by profession, a degreed electrical engineer who would analytically study any particular BASE jump for months before actually doing it. The fact he went back up the mountain leaving Jean behind to pack for the trip home after the TV show was in the can, and then jumped from a launch point unknown to him doesn't jibe with the kind of jumper he was.

I'm not suggesting anything funny went on, but the lesson in is death is clear. Stay true to what you know is right because being wrong just once can kill you.

Yes, we gave Carl Boenish a big silver cup with his name on it, but he deserved so much more . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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I would describe myelf as BASE-curious and have been put off by a number of the "how to get into BASE" articles I've found so far. The chances of any of you seeing me close to an exit point was radically reduced by the information I was able to find on the internet.

My current impression is that most people who do post things in public are suitably cautious about sites, explaining dangers and referring to lost friends on the List to make it clear to readers what they are letting themselves in for.

I suspect the risk of people using inappropriate gear is not really influenced by the public information. People who would have jumped a Sabre off an object would have done so if the information wasn't around as much as they do now that information is around and they choose not to read and absorb it properly.

tash
Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

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Ian,

Firstly, D is not my mentor...the only advise I would take from him is on how to workout....and you could definately use some of his advise on that as well:P.

Please spare me the you seem like a nice guy BS. You don't know me. I don't care to know you or your politics. Let's just leave it at that.

The original post was made in ernest. I posted what I knew from being there when it happened. Neither was I being insincere or a smartass when I made the second post. But you cannot even acknowledge that possibility. I don't really have any more energy to spend on useless conversations with you...mate.

Kris.

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what we need to do or what we should at least try to do is to ensure that local authorities will accept our or Italian Base Association recommendations (written) rules and explanation of what the jumping ITW is!
what are the consequences if one refuse to follow those rules.
So if one die because disobeying rules - no big deal, let it be, pay the ultimate price!! so be it!!!
Inspection shows that this and that happened and , well - RIP and go on!
Pretty much the same as it is going on in climbing, canyoning, hiking....
It may sound harsh what I saying here, but BASE is very very young activity ( 25 years) and of course, therefore is not completely socially accepted.
Same problems some similar now days sports had ( like climbing , free climbing, rafting, paragliding.... )
some countries have no problem w BASE, some has a lot of problem !! ( because they care for our health ..... well )

Obviously sometimes only hard way is the good way!

:S:S
Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

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You (like the guy with the sabre170) chose a path many considered VERY risky and ill-advised, and like this guy you ignored a lot of sound advice from some highly respected BASE jumpers.



Time to bring this BS to an end once and for all. Take all the very experienced BASE jumpers you mention and imagine their DADDY when it comes to wingsuit flying.

Yes. Robibird...was kind enough to send me a message and warn me of the dangers of WS BASE at low BASE experience levels after he heard of my jumps last September. In his note he also suggested the way forward. My approach has been to follow that advise with caution.

So when people like you try to give advise that is not asked for...I will have to do the obvious.

Kris.

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Wow, 3 pages of Posts on how to control unethical behavior on legal Italian BASE Wall.
.
The only way to stop the problem like what was Posted in the start of this Thread. Would be to choke the life out of BASE with regulations. Regulations that have some sort of consequences when the are broken.
When you see a BASE violator going to the exit for a jump. 'You' the concerned citizen and BASE jumper yourself. Grab your cell-phone, dial up the BASE Police and Nark-them-Off for making a bandit jump on your legal BASE site.
You then give the Officer of BASE laws information of there description and which way they ran so he could chase them down and confiscate there BASE gear. Then give them a substantial monetary-$$$$ punishment also.
* Congratulations *, You are now the person that BASE jumpers dislike the most.
Also: think long and hard all the American BASE jumpers out there Posting there views of proper etiquette and ways to handle people who will fuckup there health and the possible access of that Italian BASE object.
I think you will see that this is only a 'Small Taste' of what will come to happen. If they ever let loose NPS objects such as Cap or Zion. When desire and freedom drive the BASE jumpers who are foolish and Exit with inappropriate Equipment, Knowledge and adequate Training.
-

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you think thats bad? you should have seen the guy doing his first wing suit jump ever with a v-1 off the itw, and he had a velocity freepacked in a racer! it was the day after the guy with the sabre! it was rad! he swooped the road right under the powerlines and landed in the parking lot!

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All that talk about FREEDOM. Has anybody of you thought about the basic principles of non-solitary humany live?

Welcome to SOCIETY.

We all have our own ways of thinking and everybody is his own best friend, so when there's many of us humans in a restricted area, society rules are setup to prevent us from constantly pissing us off and finally killing us selves. So in a society, on man's freedom ends where another man's freedom starts.
In the beginning there weren't many jumpers, so this wasn't an issue. Everybody was an outlaw and the society were the others. Now there are so many of us that base-society starts to build up. That has happenend in every other human gathering and I don't think you can do anything to prevent it. If you don't like it, stay away from the rules be staying out of the society.
ITW is in the boundaries of the base-society, so your actions will affect other people's freedom. If you go in there, other jumpers will be affected.
If you want to be free to do whatever you want and to be as stupid as you want to be, why not be a man about it and go find your own cliff outside the base-society's boundaries? There's tons of cliffs out there and most of them are in remote areas. If you go in there, nobody will be affected. Don't call for society's help in case your judgement failed, because you refused society's knowledge and advice in the first place and thought you were so much smarter than everybody else.
But I'm sure the guys who did that smart stunt and were too cool to listen would have expected the support from the society in case they needed help. 3 and a half twists, wall strike and hanging on some snagged suspension lines half way up the wall with broken bones - do you think his buddies would have set out on mission to get him outta there with ropes themselves or would they have called in a heli? With all the consequences for other jumpers?
I'm not the police and I'm not calling the police on other people either, but before you claim to be free to do whatever you want, you should think first.

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you think thats bad? you should have seen the guy doing his first wing suit jump ever with a v-1 off the itw, and he had a velocity freepacked in a racer! it was the day after the guy with the sabre! it was rad! he swooped the road right under the powerlines and landed in the parking lot!



Well, we all have to admit that this is a technically nice stunt...


Fabien
BASE#944

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Yes. Robibird...was kind enough to send me a message and warn me of the dangers of WS BASE at low BASE experience levels after he heard of my jumps last September. In his note he also suggested the way forward. My approach has been to follow that advise with caution.

So when people like you try to give advise that is not asked for...I will have to do the obvious.




So you even follow Robi's advice (the daddy of ws base as you put it) with caution. Most people would follow that advice pretty much to the letter, but then you seem to know best.

The best advice is nearly always not asked for. Only an arrogant fool would selectively listen to just the advice they had sought. The very notion implies that you are always capable of pre-empting and foreseeing all the potential problems and pitfalls and so only need to ask to confirm what you already suspect.

That's a fool talking, but then it seems you are a fool after all.

****Note to anyone on an exit point with Kris here....if you see he's left a pull up cord in his pins, wait till he asks you before you give him that advice to remove it.****

Keep digging that hole you're in Kris.

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I think when Kris said his approach was to follow that advise "with caution," he was saying he was following it and now being very cautious, as well. Or at least that's how I read it. I didn't read that to mean that he was only selectively following robibird's advise. Seems like maybe you are seeing only what you want to see because of some personal issues you have with Kris as a result of his past actions. It also sounds like he has acknowledged he fucked up in the past and is now doing things the right way, so maybe you should just let it go and move on. Or maybe you just really get off on cracking people.

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seems like maybe you are seeing only what you want to see



No. I'm seeing exactly what was written. You are the one doing the 'between the lines' interpretation and second guessing what he might have meant as opposed to what he wrote.

I have NO - repeat NO - personal history with Kris, beyond meeting him at his friend's funeral - so there is no personal malice or score settling here.

However, hearing him stick in his 2 cents with regards the sabre170 jumper not listening to experienced advice makes me laugh at the hypocracy as he did a similar dangerous thing with exactly the same attitude only a year or so ago. Okay, so it wasn't Robi from phoenix fly he ignored when advice was offered. It was James from phoenix fly. That's the kind of people he's dismissing when he says

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"So when people like you try to give advise that is not asked for...I will have to do the obvious."



so forgive me if i don't agree that he's learned from his past arrogance and has moved on. The above quote says it all.

I'm flattered to be lumped in with amazing, experienced and talented BASE jumpers like James, but frankly don't deserve that accolade. James however HAS earned his airmiles and deserves a little bit more respect than Kris has and continues to show. Especially when that advice was given to prevent him killing himself.

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Actually, what I think is that calling someone a fool is a personal attack, and is not allowed on these forums.



And what about alluding that someone is overweight?
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Actually, what I think is that calling someone a fool is a personal attack, and is not allowed on these forums.



And what about alluding that someone is overweight?



That's only ok if it's me or your mom. :P


In all seriousness, there is a major difference between saying someone acted foolish and calling them a fool.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Actually, what I think is that calling someone a fool is a personal attack, and is not allowed on these forums.



And what about alluding that someone is overweight?



I apologize for that Ian.

Didn't think you would feel so bad about it that you complained to your friends.

Sorry.

Kris.

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In Reply To
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In Reply To
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Actually, what I think is that calling someone a fool is a personal attack, and is not allowed on these forums.

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And what about alluding that someone is overweight?

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That's only ok if it's me or your mom. :P


Tom didnt you see my post were i called you fat?

Please dont call me mom:P:)

Now back to tropicB|

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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I'm very sensitive about it. The moment i read that, i got on the phone to rally the troops for support. However your apology means a huge amount to me so thanks and i'll tell the guys to lay off.

For what it's worth i feel the need to apologise too. Having given it some thought, i realise now that taking a wing suit off ITW with no prior BASE jumping experience is a good idea after all, and that ignoring the advice of several more experienced jumpers, and the wishes of the local BASE community, by going ahead despite their well advertised and well meaning guidlines for jumping this site, is actually the way forward for the future of this site and for cementing positive relations with those very people who play host to us visitors.

Thanks for showing me (and the guy with the sabre170 and others like him) the way to do it.

You're a true inspiration, so sorry too for calling you foolish and arrogant, when plainly, you are not.

ian

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Can you please bicker in your own thread? Almost 20% of the posts in this thread are you guys bickering. You both posted thoughtful responses on the topic. Please stay with the topic as a favor to the rest of us.

Here is the topic starter post. Please stay with the topic. Thanks in advance,
take care,
space

"Skydiving gear skydiver, complete with collapsible PC, Sabre 170 and 2sec delay from ITW the weekend before the last (7-8th of Oct) weekend. There were 2, I did not hear which canopy the other jumped but that he did the same delay with a collapsible. What shall we do? Shall we do anything? What should you do if you see anyone with this config gearing up at the exit point? Should we do anything?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Take care,
space

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