grue

I am with you Grue but I think it is a flawed argument to say we need to start eliminating the things we disagree on as people. That's not feasible. I am not a fan of anyone who "pushes" religion or the belief in nothing on anyone either. I really try to not do that. I prefer to let my actions speak but I am human and that does not always work out that well. Maybe it's better said as eliminating the reasons we disagree to actual disagreements vs. disagreements because an unprovable deity or deities and/or some ancient text tells them to. Sure people will always find a reason to argue and disagree but the more intelligent and relevant those reasons are...

Funny you mention that one. I've been vocally against the US government's dealings with the Boy Scouts because of the de facto support for discrimination against homosexuals that such dealings become. Anyway, that's why I asked about the whole "What about the undecorated cakes that are already made?" thing. cavete terrae.

Non religious people who rail against religion have also shown historically that they are quite the opposite of peaceful so I do not think your statement is accurate but slanted to your own beliefs, the belief of nothing. Don't you just hate when religious people make statements like that? Pot meet kettle. I'm not advocating ANY action against religious people. Since I don't think there's anything after death, I think the value of human life is pretty serious business. That said, hopefully over time with education they'll just stop making more religious people and it'll die off. Those who try and push religion on others are awful, awful human beings. I won't try and convince religious people to change, but I'm not going to pretend I have any respect for their belief system either. The fact of the matter is that historically, a tremendous amount of people have been killed in the name of religion (for or against), and it's still going on today. An atheist killing someone because the person is religious is every bit as terrible and inexcusable as someone killing another person because their gods are different. Not to mention, in the end we're all atheists to some extent. Christians and Jews and Muslims pay no heed to the idea of Loki and Mercury and Zeus. I just believe in one fewer supernatural psychopath than they do. That said, if everyone gave up on religion, it'd be one fewer thing that people have to fight over. Wouldn't that be nice? cavete terrae.

***HOWEVER, I'm uncertain... You see, you can't be uncertain. Because they are exactly the same thing. On one hand you agree that people shouldn't be forced to put "Happy Kristallnacht anniversary!" on a cake, but then question refusal to put to brides on top of a wedding cake. Or maybe even a better example is if someone wanted to buy a cake saying "Happy Anniversary, Neil and Bob". Does the owner get to refuse to make a cake for Neil and Bob? He should be able to refuse to put ANY message on a cake. My question is, can he refuse ALL business with a customer, even when he's not making a message? cavete terrae.

I long for the days when newspapers were called things like the "Dickcheeseville Democrat" or the "Analtraumatown Republican" or "Jizzmop City Constitutionalist". At least then you knew right at the onset which way the spin was going. cavete terrae.

The only religion of peace is no religion at all. cavete terrae.

I can absolutely understand not putting a certain message on a cake, e.g., if you're a jewish baker and someone wants a cake that says "Happy Kristallnacht anniversary!", or whatever. In fact, I think that a business SHOULD be protected when telling a customer they will not write that message because to require it would be forcing someone to give de facto support to a position. I don't see how selling a cake without that message can cause that much of a drama, though. HOWEVER, I'm uncertain how I feel about being able to out and out deny business to someone based on their sexual orientation. While I tend towards the strong libertarian position in a lot of cases, I really don't have a good solution here. I CONCEPTUALLY feel that if someone wants to run a business where they don't want to do business with a certain person or group of people, that should be… well, his business. But on the other hand, there are certain types of businesses that everyone does need to be able to have equal access to, such as food, housing, transportation, etc. I don't quite know how to reconcile these issues, so I'd probably file it under "less harm", which is to protect the individuals, not the businesses. In a general sense I like the idea of the public being able to shun a business if it's run by asswipes, such as this pizza place, but in practice who knows how it'll go in the long run? I'm sure that there are people on the other side of the fence who'll give them extra business for being bigots. cavete terrae.

What pencil packing issue is that? The one where there is no significant amount of injuries or deaths from people pencil packing? cavete terrae.

Agreed. If that's antisemitism, I'm basically hitler reincarnated. cavete terrae.

and worse yet, if anything does go to a trial, be it a traffic ticket or a murder case, a cop's word is assumed to be more credible than a non-cop's word, which REALLY drives me up the wall. cavete terrae.

No, the politician is taking advantage of the "gullible biblethumpers". A politician's motivation is mostly along the lines of re-election and fundraising. They're choosing to vote for these people and give them money. It's still a choice. Without religion, this law wouldn't exist. Without religion, the world would likely be a better place in general. cavete terrae.

That has nothing to do with religion. That has everything to do with money, power and how your political system operates. Blaming religion for that is backwards. No, it's not backwards. Yes, the system is pretty fucked up, but to take advantage of that is a choice by the gullible biblehumpers. If I see that a building's door is open, does that mean it's ok to steal all the shit inside? If only persons making $100k/yr are allowed to buy guns, is it ok for them to shoot people without the guns? If a friend of mine is a cop and owes me a favor, is it ok for me to convince him to arrest a black guy just because he's black? No? Didn't think so. The ability to do a thing does not make doing the thing ok by default. cavete terrae.

That's a lot of hatred and vitriol for something you can easily avoid. Don't like religion, don't go to church and don't vote Republican. Lastly, how do you reconcile this with the foreign policy of your own country? I see no difference between what you are railing aganist religion does, and the stance of the US on most if not all US foreign policies. The US tends to think their form of government and market is the best and should be replicated around the world. It has been more than willing to use force, in some cases extreme force, to do so. Which brings me to a comparison of homophobics and religiphobics. These people that hate religion so much, may just be in the closet about it, and don't want the world to find out that their "particular" natural drives are what they are. If someone can present actual evidence that there's a god I will be the first to admit I'm wrong. That said, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god then he is clearly a psychopath. cavete terrae.

That's a lot of hatred and vitriol for something you can easily avoid. Don't like religion, don't go to church and don't vote Republican. If religious retards weren't lobbying and passing laws based on their dumbass fairy tales, I'd agree. However, since they are… as for the US foreign policy stuff, you can read my posts elsewhere in SC and see that I'm not the sort of person who's going to take that bait. My approval level for US foreign policy is right around 0. We're basically terrorists, and I'm not good with that. cavete terrae.

Nice. I'm the only person at my company that can really do my job which means I'm technically always on call, but we're a startup so that's not totally abnormal. My boss can do most of it but I know and have accepted that even if I'm on vacation there could be things he can't do and might need help with, so until I hire and train a minion I know that I have to only vacation to places where I can get to a decent internet connection within about 4 hours if I absolutely have to. Also means no travel without the laptop cavete terrae.

Like quade, I've been on all sides of it. For me personally I like the idea of giving people some days where they know they can be with their family. If the company needs to operate on those days, then incentivize working on them to get the line dogs to volunteer perhaps. My current company gives me unlimited paid vacation time (within reason, of course), but is open most days that are considered holidays. We closed for a couple of days around the end of the year, and I think on Thanksgiving day. I tend to add a couple days around those if I am going to be dragged into family stuff. Otherwise, I'd work Thanksgiving or Christmas, they're just another day to me. In fact, the days when nobody is around are the best days for me to work, since I can concentrate on what I'm doing instead of dealing with the litany of questions I get. cavete terrae.

I had to go to sunday school and hebrew school, and then they had the temerity to send me off to camps unwillingly. OF ALL FUCKING PEOPLE, you'd think jews would understand why sending people to camps might not go over well. cavete terrae.

What a load of crap. Little bit of respect goes a long way. And describing people who believe as dumbasses and stupid says more about you than those who believe. I gave them quiet respect for long enough, but I'm done. Religion is like a penis: If you have one and want to enjoy it, fine, but don't ram it down someone's throat when they're not interested in it. If your belief system says you shouldn't eat tangerines? Fine, don't eat tangerines. But don't try and take tangerines away from those of us who think your belief system is for morons. I, for one, have had enough of religious shitlords trying to push their belief system on others. I'm sick of them using their twisted fucking books to try and discriminate against other human beings. I still feel they should be able to practice whatever stupid set of superstitions they're gullible enough to subscribe to, as long as they're not trying to fuck over other people. Even if they're not, there's no effective difference between thinking that some bearded, inexplicably caucasian asswipe was the son of some sky fairy and the belief in Zeus, Thor, or Cthulhu. if I said that MH370 was hijacked by unicorns and minotaurs and taken to Charon so he can ferry more people across the Styx, I'd be ridiculed and rightly so. But bajillions of people think that some bro went full zombie and came back from the dead, and that they can eat crackers that turn into this zombie's flesh? Give me a fucking break. cavete terrae.

Ya, how's that new religion working for you? I'm not trying to take away anyone's right to have a dumbass belief system, but I'm done with pretending I don't think it's stupid and that it's worth of respecting. Religion is worse than cancer, because at least people with cancer know it's fucking bad for them. cavete terrae.

It makes me sad that I will not live long enough to see the end of religion. If people really need some asswipe's writing project to tell them how to live their life because they're too weak or stupid to figure it out on their own, let me do a nice, brief set of rules to live by and improve the world: "Grue's Bible: 1. Don't be a cunt. 2. If someone's action doesn't affect the life, liberty or property of a non-consenting individual, attempting to interfere with that person's action makes you a cunt. 3. See 1." cavete terrae.

It really makes me happy to know that the mentally disabled people in our society can still get jobs, I just don't understand why they have to be positions in government. cavete terrae.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2015/03/26/sylvia-allen-arizona-legislature-mandatory-church/70482802/ cavete terrae.

and that's when it's a good time to get laid, and not by a priest against your will. cavete terrae.

So it's just about revenge? No. Justice. Justice was served, he was found, tried, and made to no longer be a threat. Everything past that is just bloodlust. cavete terrae.

So it's just about revenge? cavete terrae.