fcajump

I have had discussions with one individual who works at a para mfg who leaves out the reinforcing tape on his own risers due to this 'perfect storm'. If the canopy doesn't give, and the lines don't stretch and the links don't give, then you've got two things that take the load for a hard openning... the harness (something we don't want failing) or the jumper (which can be seriously injured if it takes all the load). He figured that a riser acting as a last line of defense 'weak-link' might just save his neck (literally). Not that a riser fail would be a good thing, but when you have an overload of stresses, where do you want the load to go? J Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Not quite the same, but... During the rigger's class I attended, it is emphasised tot he students that they need to maintain control of the rig under service, minimize distractions and repeat steps if distracted. To teach this, some of the instructors would attempt to present real-world type customer distractions and then mess with the rig you were working on to see if you noticed or went back to find what they had changed. One candidate managed to have slipped into rigs he was packing (without his notice or correction) a wrench, packing weights, various other tools, his own rigging log book... to this day I am hoping that he doesn't allow ANYONE in the room while he's working on rigs. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I've been doing some reading up on this type of earplugs, was curious if anyone has used them for jumping... http://www.westone.com/defendear/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=10:musicians-style-49&Itemid=115 http://www.westone.com/defendear/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9:motorcyclists-style-4rt&Itemid=114 Looking for something better than the normal foam rubber squishies... Want to cut the plane noise without blocking voices/dirt-alerts... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

OLD sponsorship 7up panel off a PC... Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Hmmm.... You wouldn't have a copy of that magazine around would you Jerry?? I've got an old PC I bought used... the center panel was weak so I pulled it off and replaced it. Kept the panel though and put it in a frame cause I liked the 7-UP logo painted on it... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

As my ownly instructor position was as a TI, naturally most of those that I took were on their first jump. For (most) of them, it was a one shot deal and they did fine. Some were interested in continuing and this was a good intro to the whole picture at once before settling down to be a student. BUT, for myself... there was NO F-ING WAY I was going to do Freefall. This whole thing was nuts anyway and I'm only gonna make one jump. Climbing out of a F-ing plane, IN FLIGHT, and LETTING GO!!!?! Then having to remember how to fly a parachute by myself (with radio... but it may not work you know...). The very thought of adding in freefall was just too much for me. Now, for my ex-wife... She had already flown a plane (until she quit) and done other things. She went AFF and did so well that they wanted to skip her a level. Most natural jumper through her solo dive you ever saw. (then she quit) While I have not been to a tunnel (yet) I suspect that it would also be a great first/intro for someone coming into the sport... My point - whether your plan is one jump or to take up the sport*, each of the methods are "best" for different people. If I were King and HAD to say everyone starts off with this one type, I guess I would say Tandem. While it would have scared the SH!T out of me to do FF on the first jump, having an instructor that was aleart/thinking/functioning for those first 5 seconds after the canopy opens would have been nice... BUT, I would also suggest telling the manifest and TI that you are interested in being a STUDENT not just a PASSENGER. (some TI's will even know the difference ) Even that first jump should be a teaching moment if you're serious. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I purchased a rig a few years ago from a manufacturer who makes both container and reserves. I sent my measurements and weights and ask them to specify the reserve container size. I specifically talked to them about the significant difference between what I am accustomed to packing and their rig. (Figured I'd learn/get comfortable on my own rig before someone brought me one.) The rig looks great and is very comfortable to wear. Factory pack job (#1) pulled at a reserve handle force (inline with the housing) at >35-lbs (and a bit of a bend in one pin). Factory pack job #2 was upper 20's. My own pack jobs have been much higher than I am comfortable. (BUT I am new to this rig... I'll accept that it's just my learning their system) Currently it is off with a colleague (MPR/DPRE) who is much more familiar with that design than I to see if it is just me and the factor rigger that can't pack it right, or if the factory spec'ed a bad size match. Ironically... once the RC is pulled, freebag extraction is well within John Sherman's test protocol he published when he discussed the matter on here a couple years ago... I don't pretend to know the majic of canopy/container matching as well as the factories, but clearly even they don't always make for an easy pack even when that's what was requested. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Ralph is in it to make money, so he prices everything per market tollerance... 'course in a former life he sold used cars... Have you tried DJ and Assoc? http://www.dj-associates.com/products.html I'd call, not just look online. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Would depend greatly on the plane. generally speaking I would want a cut and whatever the normal jump run configuration is. IF I am the only jumper getting out on the way up in a Twin Otter, and the pilot knows me, I'll take a green light without any other changes and dive out/down exit just fine. Beyond that, no... not really. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

~1996ish (don't remember exactly when) Hartwood, VA (very old recollection of the details, wasn't there, so some may be off) Premature deployment on the step of a 206 (normal door/step, not cargo door). Canopy went over the tail, the jumper went under. The entire empanage looked liked it was removed by a sawsall. With the jump run at 10,500', the pilot was only able to get out of the tumbling mess by ~3k. Got himself under a PEP round and landed in a tree. Injured from the interior of the aircraft (all headliner material had been previously removed) and from the tree landing. Was able to fly jumpers the next month. Asside from the question: Jumper with the premature lived as did the jumper on the step, but the jumper still in the aircraft was unable to exit due to the tumbling. Assumed that the impact (landing) was the cause of his fatal injuries. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Good try for correction and good decision to chop. Don't let the blowhards get ya, a mal is a mal and yours could have been deadly if you had not taken correct action in a timely manner. Been through a couple and each one is scary. It is true that a higher performance 'chute can make this look tame. (and frankly, so can a lightly loaded canopy) There are much scarier conditions. But, given a bad situation, you done good. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Yep, PITA. But if it's not my work, it gets untacked and checked. And the only way I know it was my work is if I was the last to AIR the rig. Otherwise it gets checked. This is the type of thing that lead me to give a discount for rigs that return with my seal still intact. GREAT catch. Better than a problem with YOUR seal on it, even if you didn't do it. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Agreed. Years ago, having studied the Ancient Egyptian Secrets of Parachute Rigging on my personal quest to become a faithful disciple of DeWolf, I noted that different manuals (some having been published prior to the popularity of the PRO pack), I started contacting canopy and container manufacturers. Many approved use of the DeWolf methods, some approved the use of his PRO pack techniques but requested (required) steps in their manuals be followed exactly. Usually this was due to specific variations in their container construction/design. I don’t think that I currently service any gear where the manufacturer does not permit the PRO pack method, but you may work with items that I don’t… Bottom line – Make sure you’ve got the most recent manual for the gear. Then talk with the manufacturers. If they tell you anything different from their manual, ask for it in writing… at minimum document when and who you talked to and exactly what they approved/disapproved. (CYA) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

As if there weren't enough/different methods: 1. Back both the screws out ~1/2 way. 2. Place one end of the 'L' link into the grove of a knee board (don't capture any lines/material between the metal). 3. Place that end of the 'L' link on a hard surface, screw down. 4. push the knee board toward the hard surface (read "stand on knee board") Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

First - good thread. Second - bad title... I read it as the other form of "bail" and figured "what have them skydivers been up to THIS time..." JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

As a buyer, I would be MUCH more comfortable having the I&R done my a rigger (or factory) of MY choice (even at my expense)... I've seen to many pencil packs and "inspections" done by friends of the seller to aid the sale. I've also walked away from sellers not willing to have the sale contingent upon the inspection report. Just my $.02, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

................................................................................... Take your ass/money/friends to another DZ. Do small Cessna's really have seat-belts in the States? Not when I started (1990), but in the last 23 years the FAA and several incidents have driven up compliance. I don't know any DZ that doesn't have belts for every jumper on every plane. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

All the above (escrow, get S/N's etc) and... DOM of the Cypres 2? Is there a reserve here? Or am I looking at parts that may or may not make a rig? Definately get a pre-purchase eval by a rigger YOU choose/trust. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Great Attitude. You're one that's much more likely to become a F.O.G. I look at it this way... How many people ever fly (more than in a shinny tube)? How many fliers will ever make even one jump? How many first jumpers will ever become an experienced skydiver? You're a F'ing SKYDIVER!!! How much MORE do you need to impress? And let me give the reader a small piece of advice... Impressing the ground is a tough job. Blue Ones Big Mike!

I hope that in years to come, after you've seen a bit more of what this sport does to those who do not learn from the past, you are embarased at the posts you have made. In the mean time, I hope the old foggies keep replying to your posts and keep the newer members of this site from taking your "advice" from killing them. This does assume that you manage to live long enough to learn the danger of your attitude to both yourself, those who fly in vicinity of you and those who are foolish enough to follow your "advice". Please take up bird watching. Or at least take a few years listening, watching and learning... the life you save might be your own. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Have jumped 182's both with and without interior liners... Without does (as someone else points out) provide that little bit extra room. However, it also tends to be rather abrasive on rigs, with all sorts of places/things upon which to snag/cut/abrade your rig, jumpsuit, fingers. On the extreme case, our pilot was cut something bad on the unpadded interior when a jumper's rig pulled the tail off and he was attempting to bailout. Lessor issues - a stripped interior is less weight carried up/down, but also noisier. For myself, I'd use the closed-cell hard rubber foam that I've seen in some planes. It could be used on the floors/walls/ceiling, and cut-to-shape around the ribs/etc... BUT I don't have any idea of what the FAA would thing of its use. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Jerry, Thanks for bringing this up. I do think it should be addresses and clarified. Currently there is too much gray area in the regs. This is most clearly obvious to me when I hear the different interpretations on the issue between yourself and other seasoned/qualified experts. I have sent Mark a letter (copied below) with my own opinions. I am sure there will be those with contrary opinions and I would be interested in hearing their rational for why they would do things differently. Blue Skies, Jim --------------- Mark, I agree that PIA should petition the FAA to clarify the regulation concerning sealing the rig. Questions that should be addressed (and my opinions) include: 1. Should it be sealed in a tamper-proof manor? Yes. This is vital to reassure both the owner and rigger of record that the system has not been opened since the rigger last worked on it. I do NOT for a minute propose that this eliminates all ways in which the rig could be incapacitated, but it would be harder for such actions to be made to look like rigger error. 2. Should the rig's "airworthiness" be dependent upon the seal being intact at the time of use? Yes. As there is general disagreement within the industry, by very experienced, knowledgeable and respected experts in the field, I believe this needs to be codified. If the seal is not intact, there is no assurance to the DZO, Instructors, pilot or plane owner that the rig is in airworthy condition. These entities have become increasingly held responsible for the parachute systems used at their facilities, in their planes, they must be able to verify that the system has not been opened since closed by the rigger of record. Further, ramp checks of aircraft in which a parachute is being used need clear policy on this point. An owner advised by his rigger that an intact seal is not required may be violated by a FAA representative who disagrees with that interpretation. I would suggest that precedent may already exist on this point in the other components of certain aircraft that are sealed to indicate whether they have been altered since the mechanic last worked on it (thinking here of emergency exits/slides/etc). 3. Should the seal's material be specified? Yes, _with_ provision for the rig manufacturer to (optionally) provide alternative processes/materials in their manual. This would provide a default standard for any rig (legacy rigs for example) where the manual does not specify. While I feel the current lead seal w/ break thread is a good option, by it remaining specified without exception, there is no option for innovation. The manufacturers should have the flexibility to indicate that (and which) alternative(s) are approved for use on their systems. This desire to innovate is not simply a "better mousetrap" but may be an increasing necessity as more localities put restrictions on the use and handling of lead products. 4. Should the seal include the rigger's mark (seal letters) as is currently required? Yes. No reason to change this. 5. Should the seal be required to include the date or other information? No. Not because its a bad idea. Matter of fact, I am all for it. But currently we do not have any reliable, tried/tested/proven standardized method(s). I would like to see it be developed, available and adopted by the industry, but it should not be codified at this time. Additional comments: I would like to see a method developed to have the seal "captured" such that even when the pin is pulled and the thread broken, the seal would remain on the rig. Respectfully, Jim Wine Master Rigger (back/seat/chest) PIA Member Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Sometimes it'll be lost, depending on the rig. However, a pre jump gear check (we all do them right??) would confirm that the seal was in place before the jump.... It would be interesting to do a few spot checks on rigs at the DZ, and I'd imagine if the FAA inspectors came calling it might be something it would look at. Lots of missing seals would reflect badly on the DZO... Years ago I was at a DZ that was unwelcome by the local pilot clubs... We had the FAA on the field doing spot checks every month or so. They wanted to see the pack data card AND that the seal was intact and matched the card. At least THAT field office thought it should be intact/present/match. JW PS - they never did find ANY reason to write up the DZ... unfortunately the locals won through bleeding the legal coffers with constant challenges. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

But if you know one has a vulnerability that could cause it to fail when needed, and the 70+ year old solution is tried and proven, why change?? Just askin... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I don't know. I asked on of our TIs and he said that it happens when they lay the rig down on the packing mat. I'd say it happens somewhere between 10% and 25% of the time when I pack them. Can be hard to get them undone. TI told me he not only checks it prior to boarding but also checks the rings under canopy. Don't know it that is a standard check for TIs or not. The checks _should_ be part of the standard pre-board gear check and standard post-openning check. Unfortunately even good TI's can get distracted/complacent. The case I know of was a collection of mistakes by one of the few packers I let work on my rig, a DZ where folks do look after each other and by a highly experienced instructor that was usually very careful. Yet the facts of the failure and outcome are not in dispute... Lessons learned from that case: Packers - here's one more thing to look for/correct that can easily be overlooked if the rig is already layed out and you don't check. TI's - here's one more reason to double check that rig before you pick it up. EVERYONE - one more incident that could have been avoided if SOMEONE had offered my friend a gear check. (or if he had asked for one) We're in this together folks. LOOK and Question. I'd rather have an A licensed noob catch my mistake than not. Better embarased than hurt/dead. J Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...