fcajump

Its been a while since I was in the saddle (though I'm trying to get back in this year), but during my Strong TI training, I was taught to check before boarding, after hookup, after drogue and again after canopy check. One of the DZ TI mentors put the freefall check into perspective when he told me of a... VERY well endowed student who, upon his freefall checks, was covering both cutaway and reserve handle. He cleared the obstruction and proceeded. Had he needed to go straight for reserve, it would have cost him time/altitude. Agreed, they should be done after opening, but I feel that the freefall checks right after dropping the drogue is also important. As to those who work in unsafe/supportive environments... those DZ's will never change their ways if people keep working for them that way. I know standing for your principles can be hard (expensive), but the bottom line is that its your safety and your responsibility. If you can't keep it safe for you and your student, walk away. Just my $.02 for what its worth, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

As I said, I am NOT asking for DZ names (especially of non-compliance) and I would remind any FAA that many of our posters are from around the world. Pure votes do NOT reflect USA/FAA compliance as the persons local DZ could be anywhere. PERSONALLY, I would like such a list, but know that the potential for abuse is too high. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

In post comments, please indicate what country you're in. While I would REALLY like to have a list of which DZ's do/don't, I am NOT asking nor encouraging anyone to out their DZ for non-compliance. JW PS - from my experience: attempt at 100% enforcement from DZ and peers, have seen the plane wait until issues are sorted out - Skydive Orange, VA, USA Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Thanks for the heads up. Occasionally travel to CA, but hadn't been to Lodi yet... looks like I'll give it a miss until things change. Yep, I grew up without seat belts in jump planes, and 'everyone forward for takeoff', but in theory we learn better with time and experience. If/when they have a plane down and/or flip, the FAA will burn them as they've done in the past elsewhere... (not to mention the unnecessary deaths/injuries that may happen). Unfortunately if its bad enough, FAA HQ will make sure it also includes a major crackdown on the rest of us... looking for anything they can find when they see that most other DZ's have adopted seat belt use... Its happened before, and Lodi (and others I'm sure) are setting up the conditions for it to happen again. Thanks guys. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

NOT intending to be a smart @$$... Strong Ent. 800.344.6319 They've got the stuff, and they're very quick about sending out whatever you need. You do need to remember that, like many para-mfg's, they are closed on Fridays. So give them a call and they'll get it out asap. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Agreed. Did not mean to stifle anyone's contributions. Just enjoying listening to the discussion. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

...of course! *** And still haven't voiced my opinion. Still the same Terry I've always known................ Anyway, the first beer is on me. See you Thursday I guess. MEL (for the newer members of the forum... these two and Jerry EACH probably have packed more reserves than you will likely ever make jumps... and while they will quibble/disagree over the exact interpretation of the rules, or even the definition of the word 'is', I would trust any of the three with my reserve and hold their different opinions in high regard. so, sit back, enjoy the tennis match and consider what each of these experts have to say... much to learn here even for the things that aren't 'settled'...)

(directed in general, not specific to pchapman) I believe that I recall that PD is not expecting to find that reserves would blowup on opening. Rather their position was that after a certain amount of handling/packing a canopy's porosity could degrade such that the speed of opening (and other criteria?) would exceed an (their) acceptable performance level. Its not just a question of whether it handles a high-speed/heavily loaded deployment, but also whether or not it can do so, reliably when the ground it way too close and you have no airspeed. The fundamental question in my mind (despite the many opinions have been expressed) is this... Is the TSO standard intended to be a standard to which the product will perform when NEW such that it will still perform at an acceptable level over its life, OR is the TSO standard intended to be the performance level to which the product must perform in order to continue to be used?? AS A CONSUMER of this product (reserve/emergency system), it is my desire that AT ANYTIME my system will perform to (or exceed) those standards. I also know that over time handling will degrade its opening time/altitude-loss. SO, it it my opinion that, yes reserves should retired at some point way before we're talking about structural failure issues. As a rigger, this still sticks in my mind. So, it is my choice to go conservative with what I will work on for others. Mfg _recommendations_ will be followed and I choose to limit the age of systems I will service for others. As long as you guys keep saying '...well, that's what I've got a reserve for...' I'll keep insisting that the reserve be all it can be... 'good enough', ain't good enough. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Strong has a very specific set of service intervals and life limits on their tandem gear. Para-Phernalia sets a 20 year limit on their PEP's. Other than AAD's that's all I've personally seen. As to retro-active limits... there has been much argument on this, including the notion that since it must be maintained per the mfg instructions, new instructions could (arguably) include limits that would apply to older gear. I don't wish to debate that either way. As a rigger, when working with gear worn by others, I will go with the mfg recommendations. Don't like those, I've got a list of other riggers to whom I can refer you. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

:-) Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Early on, I pinned one where the loop had slipped off the pin, so I get how you can do that... But how do you not notice. How do you then proceed to seal it without noticing? Not saying I can't make a mistake, but you've got to be careful, you've got to be sure. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Since the size of PC issue was brought up, I'll point out the other side of that coin... Years ago, Jim Cazer PC's were sold locally, but did not indicate their size (or appropriate main canopy size). Not knowing that there was a difference (and being new to ZP PC's), I got what was on the shelf. PC hesitation lead to a two out at an airshow. (long story but not an AAD scare) Talked to Jim and he sent me a larger one the next day and ensured that all future PC's indicated the size main they were intended for... I think the break point was around 170ft^2. Never had a problem after that. roadwizard looks to be down in the 120 range, so no problem there and a good idea. But to the other (larger/newer) readers, make sure you look at the whole issue, not just the solution that helped one person as a fits-all solution. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

To those where its either not required or enforced... I started jumping in 1990. There was 1 seat belt on the plane, for the 1 person coming back down. Why would you want them, we're getting out anyway and in case of a bailout, they'd just be in the way. "Don't be wearing one if you're between me and the door" was the attitude of the SkyGods... Then Perris and a couple others happened. Dead skydivers crushed by their friends, not killed directly by the crash. Never high enough the even think about bailing out... you're just cargo and awaiting impact. The FAA noticed. There was a great outcry. Costs would go through the roof, they would never be used, they'd catch on gear, they'd be involved in extraction complications, they'd cause exit hangups, the industry would collapse and only Michael Crichton could write the final chapter of this disaster... Ok... some of that has happened. I've tried to exit a Cessna with my belt on (*blush*). Some people don't like to wear them. And I'm sure the plane owners can tell you what the additional costs are. But the world did not end, the new jumpers here believe this has ALWAYS been normal, and at my local DZ's its just what you do. The transition from panic and outrage to normal safe behavior was actually fairly quick. If you've never been there, look at the pics of the recent MINOR plane incidents and imagine what happened INSIDE that aircraft. Now, go ask your DZO why they don't have them in the plane. Ask your pilot why he wants meat missiles pointed at him when he has to put it down fast, ask your buddies who wants be at the bottom of the pile when 5 of us land on him, and ask your local skygod how good he is at landing on his head when the plane flips. Most of us have imagined that we would go diving after an unconscious friend to deploy his 'chute and safe his life. But plane crashes are MORE common. Putting your seat belt on is statistically MORE LIKELY to save your buddy. To me, like reserves (once optional) and AAD's (still optional in most places), this just makes sense... but in this case it only works to protect "me" if we are ALL wearing them... As Nike used to say... Just Do It. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Actually... if you look at my list (rather than my poor attempt at humor where I gave Booth credit for everything) Jalbert is in my list, though I left much room for expansion of the list. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Ok... so, I'll take it straight this time... and get the list started... Leslie Irvin and James Floyd Smith - storing the parachute in a soft pack worn on the back Leslie Irvin and James Floyd Smith - ripcord deployment Leslie Irvin and James Floyd Smith - spring loaded pilot chute deployment Domina Jalbert - Ram-Air Parachute Frenchman Pierre M. Lemoigne - Paracommander (to mfg them - Pioneer) _________ Piggy Back Container Bill Booth - Three Ring Release Bill Booth - Throw Out PC Bill Booth - Pull Out PC Bill Booth/Ted Strong - Tandem Parachute System Helmut Cloth - Cypres AAD OK folks... add on to it. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Bill Booth - well that covers 75% of the container you're currently wearing. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

. Can anyone read the above text (extracted from USPA SIM) and stop spreading this paranoia that USPA will pull your license away if you don't brush your teeth twice a day? Pleeeease?? The rules are very simple. 1 - Follow FAA F.A.Rs at all times (US Air Space). 2 - Follow USPA rules (which requires to follow F.A.Rs) when jumping in a USPA member DZ. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin USPA does have the ability to revoke your membership for violations of the rules. There is no limitation stated or implied that the violation must be at a USPA DZ. If you're a member, you agreed to follow the organization rules. Don't like the rules, don't be a member. Simple. Your quote from the SIM does not negate the ability of the organization to enforce its internal policy and decide when someone should no longer be a member of the group. Example - 99% of demo jumps are not at USPA DZ's. And yet, break the USPA rules on Demo jumps (bad enough), and USPA can decide that you should no longer be a member. Now, from what I've seen, it takes a big thing to get to that point... And a non-incident that is also not in violation of the FAR's would be much harder to push to the point of revocation, but that does not mean the group's leadership can't do so... As a private organization, they can do that. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I've been using the winter weight Neuman's for years (but won't mind finding better). Worst mistake I made was to blindly follow a friend's advice... They always wore doctor's gloves under their regular gloves and it worked GREAT (for them). Having never tried them before I was game. Turns out I should have thought back to my first school dance (sweaty palms). The only thing worse than freezing cold wind on the outside of your gloves, is ICE inside your gloves. I would suggest that once you find something you think you want to use, go outside in the very cold and do some work that requires finger dexterity. See how flexible, cold, wet, etc they get over time. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Not tandem, but was sitting student in a C-182. Since I prefer my seat belts snug, my swing out attempt was halted almost before it began... Another reason to have them snug. While embarrassing (the jumper in JM position on his knees saw and guffawed) no actual harm done. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

While I've seen good springs launch the PC to the full extent of the bridle, in my mind the spring is not primarily for that purpose... The strength of the PC spring is to ensure it clears the burble and gets into clean air to enable the PC material to do its job. Unfortunately, even with strong springs, this is not ensured and in that case we are then subject to the dynamic behavior of the material involved and the unpredictable currents and eddies of the burble and actions of the jumper. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I do, but I'm weird... I also ride the plane down when the ground winds come up too high and go home to pack my reserve when its out of date... If anyone questions the notion, look at the video recently sent of someone going out with a single side still attached. Watch how far they end up from the actual attach point by the time its under full tension. Now, how far forward would they go in the plane cabin during a nose-low impact?? You think that will save anyone from the types of pile-on crush injuries we saw in the '92-'93 accidents (and others)? When I started in '90, seatbelts were shunned (as were AAD's and other 'normal' items). We fixed that, we can fix this too. But it takes both national promotion and grass roots attitude. Do it yourself, and share the 'why' when asked... a good place to start. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Can't speak for anyone but myself... but when I started rigging I decided that this is a slippery slope that I didn't want to go down... My reputation is not only what I do for/to other's rigs, and what they see (or don't see) me let slide by... but its how I approach EVERY decision on rigging... even on my own stuff. Maybe I'm the only rigger that's ever done it, but I've left the DZ on a beautiful morning and driven the 1.5hr back home to repack my own reserve because it was a few days out. My oversight, my integrity, my problem. Was there a simple (unethical) fix, sure. Was there likely to be any issue with the rig? Nope. Would anyone else be affected by my using the rig a few days out? Unlikely. But it would mean that my ethics are flexible. What about my buddy's rig that's just a few days out... I know he babies his rig. I know its fine, and this'll be his only day for months... Where do you stop bending the rules? What do people know about you when you start bending? Do they trust that you only bend some rules? Or are you willing to bend others that are inconvenient? At what point do they stop trusting you 100%? The answer for me was simple... do it right every time. Start with your own gear. Be known for it. If you're known for it, they won't ask you to bend for them... so no temptation. Besides, if they see that you're OK with bending rules, why shouldn't they help you by bending it with your name attached? Might I loose a customer that way, well... haven't yet. And frankly, that kind of customer is unwelcome in my shop. Just my $.02. JW PS - yes, I like this idea (window to see the PDC from within) but I am skeptical that it will come to pass unless the mfg's decide its in their financial or liability interest to do it. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

But its the rigger's reputation and liability when you go in on a rig that's got a problem because it was not ACTUALLY inspected/packed by that person when the PDC says. If you're going to pencil whip it, leave my name, number, seal out of it. J Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

My vote for combination is simply because I (like others) prefer: Digital back-end / Analog display (Alti-Track) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

In Virginia it is a required part of the manditory annual inspection that the airbag (if originally installed) be present and operational. If not, it it illegal to operate that vehicle. Got that straight from the officer in charge of the state inspection program when I was trying to get a car passed that originally had one. Despite the fact that the car's airbag had been an option that year and the manufacturer had discontinued the parts needed to fix it. (a waiver can be obtained IFF I could get a letter from GM guarenteeing that the removal would not decrease the safety of the vehicle... yea... right...) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...